More Maytag Mayhem

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

What I find exciting about the spoked hub drive method is that it means that it's now possible to motorise older style English frames where the narrow distance between the chain stays would make it difficult to fit a sprocket. It also means that older type wheels fitted with prewar designs of coaster hub can be used as they are without having modify sprocket centres or bend brake anchor arms.

I have a nice Birmingham made Hercules ladies bike frame of the English 'sports' variety intended for 26 x 1 & 3/8th wheels so I thought I'd dismantle the faux-Rudge and change all the cycle parts over to the Hercules frame. Once I've done that I'd set it up with a Villiers engine mounted behind the rear wheel and use a Cannonball type 3 speed spoked hub to provide the drive. It should make a very nice lightweight motor-bicycle for me to putter about on.

 

[silverbear]

What I find exciting about the spoked hub drive method is that it means that it's now possible to motorise older style English frames where the narrow distance between the chain stays would make it difficult to fit a sprocket. It also means that older type wheels fitted with prewar designs of coaster hub can be used as they are without having modify sprocket centres or bend brake anchor arms.

I have a nice Birmingham made Hercules ladies bike frame of the English 'sports' variety intended for 26 x 1 & 3/8th wheels so I thought I'd dismantle the faux-Rudge and change all the cycle parts over to the Hercules frame. Once I've done that I'd set it up with a Villiers engine mounted behind the rear wheel and use a Cannonball type 3 speed spoked hub to provide the drive. It should make a very nice lightweight motor-bicycle for me to putter about on.

Sounds interesting, Anne. Another Villiers, yes!
When I think of how many old three speed S.A. hubbed bikes I have passed up at the dump in years past and a few wheels I have discarded... well, I wish I'd known then what we know now. Never again. I just looked on ebay and see that the used hubs are in some demand. They deserve to be reused and more will now they have an additional value. Let us know when you do a build thread.
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Sounds interesting, Anne. Another Villiers, yes!
When I think of how many old three speed S.A. hubbed bikes I have passed up at the dump in years past and a few wheels I have discarded... well, I wish I'd known then what we know now. Never again. I just looked on ebay and see that the used hubs are in some demand. They deserve to be reused and more will now they have an additional value. Let us know when you do a build thread.
SB

I will certainly do that Silverbear

True enough about passing things by. For too long I ignored wheels that had a Sachs kickback two speed hub fitted to them. Then came the day I finally tried one out and I felt like kicking myself around the room for being so stupid and leaving so many of those treasures behind for the crusher to mash up.

A vintage example of engine mounted behind the rear wheel

 

[silverbear]

Anne,
You'll be the only kid on your block with one of those.
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Ha ha Silverbear, I'm the only kid on my block with all kinds of things with wheels on

 

[silverbear]

Anne, is this the same hub you intend to use? I cleaned this one up today, 3 speed with coaster brake. They sure didn't skimp on chrome back then. Beautiful hub. Now i need to locate a nut for the other side and the adjuster chain deal that the shift cable attaches to. I stole those parts for CB2's Miss Piggy. There will be more in the world's abundance of stuff.

CB2, Curt is going to weld a pulley onto the sprocket pictured on the hub. Can he do it just welding it to the side at the teeth or will it need to have the teeth ground down and one of those coreless pulleys welded in place? What size pulley do you suggest?
SB
Forgot the photos... next post coming right up.

 

[silverbear]

Here they are...

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Yes that's the same type of hub Silverbear, - only mine aren't coaster brake hubs just plain 3 speed hubs.

Yes they certainly quality pieces of work alright

 

[cannonball2]

SB, depending on your pulley choice you can probably just weld the teeth to the pulley. It depends largely on the pulleys inset. For my application I just welded the teeth in three places, between two teeth. You may want to go to 4/6 on a higher power/torque engine like the Predy. Go to TSC and try fitting the coaster sprocket into the weldable centerless pulleys they have. If you are running an auto clutch most of their pulleys are 3" so that's a good starting point to begin fitting. It will depend on the gearing of course. My hub pulley is a 3.5". The center hole by luck was perfectly sized to allow the snap ring and shims for retaining the sprocket to pass through barely!

 

[silverbear]

CB2,
Thanks for responding. I re-read this whole thread in the night and found photos of your sprocket. I think even I can do that three point welding as it doesn't need to be pretty. Looks like the weldable pulleys are the way to go for this. Since I have a couple of Shimano hubs I don't intend to use I may remove the sprocket and end up making two sprocket to pulley units, one with a 4" pulley and one with 6".

I know that with your Maytag build you were already locked into a belt drive setup. I'm not at this point and could use chain for the final drive at least, but it seemed to me that belt drive allows a bit of slippage and might be easier on the hub than unforgiving chain.

Getting excited about this spoke drive setup and have decided to go ahead and use the 99cc that I have and make this mtb the daily rider this summer. It should go together pretty quickly.
SB

 

[cannonball2]

The roads are wet from last evenings T storms. Will get a wet test ride in. Am expecting no loss of drive but could be surprised.

SB if you are going to have to run a jackshaft then you will have a double opportunity to adjust ratios which will allow keeping the pulleys smaller Get that worked out before jelling on pulley size. Another thing to consider is the # of spokes(generally 18) and the # of drive slots on the tire as the final gearing. My tires slots # 115 for a final drive of 6.38. That would be in second/direct. Add this to a primary reduction of only 3:1 and the overall is 19.14:1 a great gearing for a trail bike, even lower in first and higher in third by 25% each way.

So there is a lot to consider here not the least the tire used.

 

[silverbear]

Thanks! And good luck with your wet road test.
SB

 

[silverbear]

CB2,
I want to apologize for high jacking your thread and thank you for indulging me and my many questions. I have started my own thread as a result...

http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=607733#post607733

...and will continue on with endless questions there. ha! Pretty amazing how much I don't know.
SB

 

[cannonball2]

This is an open discussion SB no need to apologize!

I got a very wet ride this morning. The roads were still completely wet with numerous puddles. The drive positively drove with no slippage in all gears including lugging high gear down low and then pouring on the mighty power of the Maytag. I rode through numerous standing water puddles with no problem. As a test when pulling in the garage I killed the engine by choking it down with the brake. That's pretty positive!

 

[silverbear]

In my limited experience with friction drive (several bike bug engines) my only real gripe was slippage in wet conditions. It appears that you have eliminated that drawback. Awesome!
Theoretically you should be able to bump start it.
SB

 

[cannonball2]

Wont bump start because the hub freewheels when turned by the tire. Wish it would!

BTW Miss Piggy is holding up fine and shifts beautifully. I speed shift by just pulling in the clutch and clicking the shifter. Gets the gear every time. Down shifts are done clutchless. She appears to be a very tough old girl!

 

[silverbear]

Wont bump start because the hub freewheels when turned by the tire. Wish it would!

BTW Miss Piggy is holding up fine and shifts beautifully. I speed shift by just pulling in the clutch and clicking the shifter. Gets the gear every time. Down shifts are done clutchless. She appears to be a very tough old girl!

Ah yes, the freewheel. Good to hear about Miss Piggy. Sounds like she's enjoying her classy new life on the road after looking pretty neglected when I found her at the dump. My hopes are that her coaster brake cousin is of equally robust stock. Getting excited about my MTB build and intend to pull the 99 Predator engine next week and then make the mount rails.
SB