Indian Tadpole

[curtisfox]

Hey Curt,

It hasn't healed yet but I'm tired of the sitting and waiting so I'll just close my eyes to the pain and move on. The infection holds on for a very long time and I just can't wait it out.

Really hoping you get the bike built and we can all meet up for a ride. I looked up a Nelson motor and it was really something. Were they all horizontal motors like the Maytag's usually were?

Safe trip home.

Steve.

Me eather,still have scratchy eyes and my knee still has some pain, and now my lef knee is acting up but i am not going to stop. Yep i will get a bike going and hopfully meet for a ride. Nelson also made upright engines also but proably more scares, as they were washing machine engines. They are out there just got to find and pay the price.
Will be heading north on Friday,with visits on the way
Curt

 

[fasteddy]

Hi Curt,

I like the doctors assurance that you'll be as good as new. Makes me wonder since the old one wore out what makes the the new one so special but then again I think that given our ages they're safe since the chances of us living another 70 years is so darned slim we'll never find out if they lied to us.

As I told Silverbear I have every intention sliding into the final resting place going backwards with the brakes locked up, smoke pouring off the tires and looking very much like a well squeezed out tooth paste tube while yelling "What a ride that was." One can only hope.

Steve.

 

[curtisfox]

Hi Curt,

I like the doctors assurance that you'll be as good as new. Makes me wonder since the old one wore out what makes the the new one so special but then again I think that given our ages they're safe since the chances of us living another 70 years is so darned slim we'll never find out if they lied to us.

As I told Silverbear I have every intention sliding into the final resting place going backwards with the brakes locked up, smoke pouring off the tires and looking very much like a well squeezed out tooth paste tube while yelling "What a ride that was." One can only hope.

Steve.

Yep for sure. What a way to go LOVE it and will do my best to do the same.

 

[Mr.B.]

Here’s a little wicker inspiration for ya from WTT’s Facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0217387900.162472.228759352900&type=1&theater

Pretty sure that's a 26” bicycle wheel on the sidecar.

-Kirk

 

[silverbear]

Here’s a little wicker inspiration for ya from WTT’s Facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0217387900.162472.228759352900&type=1&theater

Pretty sure that a 26” bicycle wheel on the sidecar.

-Kirk

What a sweetheart that is!
SB

 

[FFV8]

How are you guys coming on the tri-cars? Any updates?

I just went back & skimmed all 103 pages. What a journey.

While I am glad my sidehack went together in a few weeks, and it is a joy to ride - I am already thinking of building something new.

Have either of you ridden the tri-car as a bicycle? I am curious about the handling dynamics. The front suspension allows some lean - what happens when you run out of travel?

Any idea what your front track width is? One thing I have noticed with the tilting sidecar is that you can lose track of how far that outboard wheel sticks out. I have not had any serious issues, but a few close calls. The tri-car lets you see both wheels.

Thanks again for a wonderful build thread.

Brad

 

[fasteddy]

Hi FFV8,

Updates? Jeepers those have been as scare as dancing girls on the Gobi Desert recently.

As for my tri car, I finally was able to gather up the last of the parts this past week and now I have to take the motor and some of the parts up to the machinist to get them worked on. The motor needs a key way cut in the crankshaft and the gears for the jackshaft need one of them narrowed so it sits closer to the other one and then they need to be welded together and then welded to the jackshaft.

I am going to have bronze bearings in the ends of the hollow jackshaft and will have the pedal crank run through that. I bought a wide crank set and I need to have the bearing area on the shaft turned down so it will slide through the bronze bearings. While the jackshaft turns the pedals won't turn and vice versa. I believe that set up is called a quill shaft.

The jack shaft turns on sealed bearings in the bottom bracket so until I get it all together I can't ride it even pedaling it.

I didn't get to bike camp last year because of my health so the parts I made for Silverbears tri car didn't get there. I just make double the amount of everything since I have a lot more tools to work with and I'm designing it as I go. His bike isn't rideable either. I have most of the steering parts here. Hoping that this year is a go and my knee heals. Severe arthritis and then a staph infection in my knee have slowed things down to a virtual stop. I do not recommend 9 months of antibiotics.

The track for the front wheels is 50" to the middle of the tires. I made it this wide so the seat would fit and have room for the springs and the front fenders. I would think that you could narrow it if you won't have any thing on the front.

I take it when you ask about the travel you mean the side to side motion of the front wheels and the turning radius. If so I would say that it is nearly unlimited. The way it's set up on the tri cars you will be able to easily turn to the point at full wheel lock they will slide up the road because they will be turning back on the bike to such a degree that the bike will need to be nearly at a dead stop for the wheels to grip the road.

If it's the spring travel they are fairly stiff but will travel a few inches if need be. I think they were more for road shock than anything else.

I'll see if I an get the front wheels to fully turn so I can try and give you an accurate degree of turn using a protractor. It's sitting on a set of saw horses and I need to pull the front one out of the way some how since the wheels hit it.

I don't see these going over 20mph. They are tall and while they are maybe less tippy than a trike since the wheels are in the front we will have to get them on the road to see what will happen.

A lot of the problem for me was finding photo of the front end. Everyone to side photos and it wasn't until I gotten to this stage that head on photos showed up. How unusual. If I hadn't been doing an Indian style build I would have used Go Kart front end parts.

I sure admire your tilting sidecar build. Absolutely wonderful and if Silverbear or I can help you with any information if you decide to build a tri car please ask and I hope this has helped.

You read the whole thing??? You have a special place on the Honor Roll of the Daring and I thank you for the effort.

The reason that everyone got a short copy of this is your best guess. I clicked on the page to move a sentence and it went to the forum instead.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

FFV8,
Thanks for your interest in this adventure. It sure has been a long one with health issues cropping up to get in the way, but it looks like we're on track again and hopefully this summer will see some real progress and some closure. Steve is getting very close now with his build and I'm hoping that his machinist does not drag things out.

In a couple of weeks I will have enough of next years firewood put away that I can start thinking about bikes again. I have the tri-car stowed away in my brother's cabin and with his imminent return at the end of the month I need to move it to another location where it can be worked on. While it is out in the sunlight I'll give it a look over and take a couple of pictures. It doesn't take much to get me all psyched up over this project all over again. I did build a couple of wheels for the front end over the winter and have the rims in primer. I'll need to shoot them with enamel and then confer with Steve about what hardware I'll need to adapt the hubs which were custom made in England. I laced the rims with salvaged 12 gauge spokes.

Steve has made up a steering arm for my tri-car and I believe there are some more small welding jobs to be done on the front end. Steve is also on the lookout for a wicker seat for me... this is for the passenger up front.

I'd also like to fire up the engine to give it a test run and know that all is well with the fuel lines, carburetor, etc. I'm still a little worried about whether or not the two speed transmission is as it should be. While cleaning up the clutch plates I discovered a tiny half moon key loose in with the dried up grease and am wondering where that came from and when. And where is it supposed to go? Has it been sitting there as an extra lost part since 1934 when the engine was put together? Did it come loose more recently? Does it even have anything to do with the transmission? Don't know, but it is a nagging concern.

I don't know how far along my tri-car will make it this summer, but it will at least be closer to done. There are other projects also wanting closure... a 3 speed 1934 Elgin with the Villiars engine that was once slated to power this tri-car, also a 1951 Schwinn powered by a 147cc Jacobsen 2 stroke with a belt drive to the rear wheel ("kindalikeawhizzer"), and a delta trike being built as a hybrid with an electric front wheel and a 1950's villiars midget engine in back with a kick start. No, it won't all get done this summer. Top of the priority list is the tri-car. Once Steve arrives from Canada in early July the sparks will fly and pictures will follow.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

I measured the turning radius for the tri cars steering from dead center and it's 40 degrees to one side to steering lock. This could be greatly improved by putting the steering arms straight back instead of turning them into the center as I did. This is what hits.

Hope that makes sense to everyone and as always if not ask for more information here or PM me.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

I bought a 62 tooth rear sprocket from Rebel Gear. I used the information on the Manic Mechanics web site to get the spacing and bolt size correct and entered it into the order form information at Rebel Gears site and then phoned up with my credit card information. The lady that answered the phone printed my order out and checked with the machinist to make sure they had all the information that they needed and I paid for it and it was on it's way less than 24 ours later.

This is their standard finish and lightening holes. They suggested that I order the #415 chain sprocket even though I'm using #41 chain because it was up to the job and cost less.

You may want to look up Sportsman Flyer Motorbikes 3 piece hub adaptor and sprocket set as well. They can make any size of sprocket you desire and they used them to set many records at the Bonneville salt flats.

Click on the photo to go to my photobucket site.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

That's superb service you could ask for better than that.

 

[silverbear]

Steve,
Looks like they know what they're doing at Rebel gear and really quick customer service. I took at peek at some o the other photos and have to say that the tri-car is looking great. Final touch will be your fabulous head badge. What are you using for the primary seat? I have a black one just like the tan one you sent me... very comfortable and looks much like the original. Let me know and I'll send it.

Also, what is it that I need to order to adapt the custom front hubs so they can mount up? I can have that ready for when you get here and the wheels will be ready to go. One less thing to wait for once summer has arrived. I like how you mounted your fenders...

The ice is going out on Eaglesnest Lake 3 as I write, just in time for the fishing opener on Saturday. Almost all of the snow pack accumulated over the winter is gone with patches of snow left in the woods where the sun don't shine. Mosquitoes and wood ticks will awaken in earnest once the sun returns and it warms up. Summer's coming!
SB

 

[FFV8]

Fasteddy & Silverbear:

Thanks for the replies. And thanks for the compliment on the sidecar.

My concern with travel is the suspension travel. I have rubber stops on my sidecar, but the original flexi-car used springs. I have noticed that if I lean the bike in a turn that the handling changes when I reach the limit of the travel.

So far it has not been dangerous, but you can certainly tell when you get to the limit. Obviously your sliding pillar design will allow for much less lean than my sidecar. Just curious. I rarely go over 30 mph with the sidecar.

Good to know about the track & steering angle on your projects. Looking at online pics it appears that there is less steering angle available on some of the originals. Perhaps it is the photo angle, but some I looked at would have stopped at about 20 degrees when the tire hit the seat leaf spring at the front.

Since I lack the patience for fine woodwork, I suspect any tri-car attempt I make will be a another service vehicle.

Here's hoping you guys make a lot of progress at bike camp this year. I have a gallon of DEET, would that help at camp?

Thanks again for this thread.

Brad

 

[fasteddy]

Hi Anne,

Hope your feeling better and your doctors visit yields good results.

They were indeed very pleasant to work with and provided speedy and accurate results. Thankfully Manic Mechanic were good enough to post the information in machinist speak on their site which made it painless.

After the tri car is finished it will be on to a velo car and then if time and tide are still available I want to build another tri car that is all Sportsman Flyer based. That would be the ultimate machine.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Hi Silverbear,

Ice is going out on the lake. Wonderful. Have the walleye been sent an invitation to the opener?

I have all the spindles and steering arms made for the Hiawatha as well as the rod for the tie rods. You'll need to get 4 tie rod ends for go karts and I'll let you know the numbers for the ones I bought from BMI Karts.
I'm going to try and get out to the shop and drill the holes in the plates that hold the springs down to the frame.
They are talking about warm weather in the next few days and I'll get out and weld up the spring mounts and other than finding that perfect chair for the seat it should be all done on this end.

Mosquitos, black flies and wood ticks all waiting for their chance to feed on the poor outdoors man. You'll need cement blocks tied to your feet so the little ones don't carry you off before the big ones find you.

I hope they decide this year whether the mosquito or the black fly is going to be Minnesota's state bird.

Yes, cheers to Rebel Gear. If someone has a Manic Mechanic adaptor and a need for a sprocket that isn't available they are definitely the go to people in my book. They also put 4 stickers in with the sprocket. I feel so special.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Hello Brad,

I'm picturing that gallon of Deet and a 4" paint brush sitting beside us as we work. Of course a 12 gauge with bird shot for the larger ones.

When I started gathering parts for the tri car I purchased a bunch of coil springs that were used for the forks on mini bikes. They were reasonable in price and when I got them they looked pretty good but they weren't as stiff as I wanted. In the end I used coiled porch springs. They hang from the ceiling and the swing hooks on to them. You can find them on eBay and Lowes has them as well as Home Depot I'm sure.
If you would like to try some mini bike springs let me know and I'll send you a couple to try out. I have a few. Like I said they were a good deal.

I just went out and measured the mini bike springs. They are 5-1/2" tall, 1-7/16" across and 1/8" rod and a 3/8" space between the coils. See if you can find something like that at Ace or another hardware store to compare them or as I said let me know and I'll jet you a couple and you can try them.

The porch springs are 2' across with 1/4" rod and a 1/4" space between the coils and if I remember correctly 6" tall.

Now with our builds we had to compensate for someone sitting over the front axle. Since most of Silverbears and my friends go by nick names such as Moose, Ox and Beef and are know collectively as the Large Fellas I put some pretty heavy springs in.
If your going the cargo box route unless your carrying concrete or some such weight you may well be able to use a milder spring.
I've stood on the ones I have in mine and there is some action left for road shocks with the seat on and me acting as the passenger weight.

I think with a front end braced like the Indian Tri Car is you won't have any problems and the springs as I said will just be for soaking up the road shocks and to allow some leaning into the turns.
Again if you want the springs or any measurements let us know. It would be fun to see more tri cars built.

Steve.

 

[Allen_Wrench]

How are you guys coming on the tri-cars? Any updates?...
Brad

Well, these other fellows have gotten much further than I have. I've been a bit bummed about having to use my income tax return for more important things. So I've continued to revise and plan and expand upon each and every detail of my intended build (and go through graph paper like mad). Latest thumbnail sketch included below, with a marked influence from the Sandford Grand Sport in the tail section.

 

[silverbear]

Allen,
I like your cyclecar sketch a lot!
SB

 

[Allen_Wrench]

Allen,
I like your cyclecar sketch a lot!
SB

Thanks. I probably don't say this enough, but you guys here truly inspire me with the projects you undertake. And it really helps to know that this forum is around if I should need to search for answers.
I really will build this three wheeler. No idea how soon, but for me - the sooner the better. I've taken so many measurements, and worked scale drawings of actual parts I intend to use into page after page of schematics, that I can actually picture exactly what this will look like to scale sitting in the driveway. As a matter of fact, I've spent so many evenings planning it on paper that I think I could build it without the benefit of coffee.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Well, these other fellows have gotten much further than I have. I've been a bit bummed about having to use my income tax return for more important things. So I've continued to revise and plan and expand upon each and every detail of my intended build (and go through graph paper like mad). Latest thumbnail sketch included below, with a marked influence from the Sandford Grand Sport in the tail section.

Oooooo nice, very nice indeed. That is a lovely design.

Steve, I'm on the mend and feeling better. I still have to take things quietly and I'm still sleeping a lot, but I'm starting to want to do things again.