This chain tensioner?

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2door

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Sep 15, 2008
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man i'm running rag joints on both of my bikes (a 20" schwinn stingray and an occ chopper) with chain tensioners that I made.
going on 4 years on the same rag joints and tesioners without any problems.
I guess if you know what you're doing, you can make stuff work and last. but if you don't know what you're doing, the only alternative is to buy better parts & there's nothing wrong with that at all.
I just prefer to fabricate and build my own parts whenever I can.
Ditto:

I've never had a problem with a rag joint, not one. Installed correctly, properly centered on the hub and aligned with the chain path, they perform quite well. Same for chain tensioners. If the bike frame design, horizontal drop-outs, will allow it I'll forego the tensioner but if I need one I make my own, bridging the seat and chain stay and I've never had one fail or wear out. Cheap too.

If you're fortunate enough to have the skills/tools to fabricate you have no need for aftermarket parts. Especially at the prices I'm seeing for some of them. Of course I understand that not everyone can design, cut, weld and fabricate so there is a place for those shiny gadgets machined from aluminum and cost so much. It's just not on my bikes.

Tom
 

fatdaddy

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man i'm running rag joints on both of my bikes (a 20" schwinn stingray and an occ chopper) with chain tensioners that I made.
going on 4 years on the same rag joints and tesioners without any problems.
I guess if you know what you're doing, you can make stuff work and last. but if you don't know what you're doing, the only alternative is to buy better parts & there's nothing wrong with that at all.
I just prefer to fabricate and build my own parts whenever I can.
And in a way you're right drag. If you know what yer doin, keep a constant eye on things, maintain, oil, lube and adjust as necessary, you can make almost anything work. I'll still use a china tensioner sometimes, but usually mount it better. I will NEVER use a rag joint on one of my personal bikes again. I'm just tired of, if only occasional, busted spokes. Not to mention the mount bolts that sometimes break, and the fact that it IS mounted on RUBBER. Even if it's miniscule, the thing does flex and move some. And from an engineering point of veiw, If driving the wheel from the spokes was a good idea, don't ya think Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki, Not to mention Harley, would be doing it this way too.
I am glad you've had good luck with the rag joint, Adapters aren't cheap and you seem to be doing OK without them. Most people don't experience this kind of luck.
fatdaddy.
P.S. Pics of some of the OCC's (about 10 of them,) I've built. The trike used mostly OCC parts.
:I uploaded 4 pics, don't know what happend (OK, just not a thumbnail.)
 

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fatdaddy

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Ditto:

I've never had a problem with a rag joint, not one. Installed correctly, properly centered on the hub and aligned with the chain path, they perform quite well. Same for chain tensioners. If the bike frame design, horizontal drop-outs, will allow it I'll forego the tensioner but if I need one I make my own, bridging the seat and chain stay and I've never had one fail or wear out. Cheap too.

If you're fortunate enough to have the skills/tools to fabricate you have no need for aftermarket parts. Especially at the prices I'm seeing for some of them. Of course I understand that not everyone can design, cut, weld and fabricate so there is a place for those shiny gadgets machined from aluminum and cost so much. It's just not on my bikes.

Tom
Yer both right. If ya got any skills at all a tensioner is not an impossible thing to make yourself. The adapter is another thing entirely. Unless ya got a CNC machine, or know someone that has one, It's gonna be pretty hard to cut, chisel, weld or otherwise put one together. And I don't consider a hub adapter a "shiney gadget". The hub adapter I use, if fact, is not pretty OR shiney. It's a heavy duty, totally functional peice of equipment. Adapters make the install A LOT easier and centers the sprocket perfectly every time with no effort as in trying to get a rag joint sprocket on straight. I've only had it on my bike for about a year, but I haven't had to so much as touch it since except to wipe the dirt off. Of course I am using what I consider the best adapter on the market.
fatdaddy.
P.S. And I'll say it again. If using the spokes to drive the wheel was a good idea, Honda would be doing it.
 

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2door

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P.S. And I'll say it again. If using the spokes to drive the wheel was a good idea, Honda would be doing it.
The point you're missing here is that we are building motorized bicycles, not motorcycles. There's world of difference even if they resemble each other.

Tom
 

fatdaddy

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The point you're missing here is that we are building motorized bicycles, not motorcycles. There's world of difference even if they resemble each other.

Tom
I get ya tom. If I were TOTALLY against rag joints I wouldn't use them on my customer bikes. Installed properly they work fine. But, not trying to be a A**, I think the point you're missing is that the same principles of engineering are involved. So I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree. But thats cool. I have always said the same thing on the subject of bike building. IT'S YOUR BIKE, BUILD IT YOUR WAY.
fatdaddy.
 

2door

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"IT'S YOUR BIKE, BUILD IT YOUR WAY."

Couldn't say it better. It's why there's chocolate and vanilla.
Whatever works for you is the BEST way to do it. We can all have our opinions and make suggestions but until you've tried it yourself and found what works for you, it's all just conjecture.

Tom
 

fatdaddy

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"IT'S YOUR BIKE, BUILD IT YOUR WAY."

Couldn't say it better. It's why there's chocolate and vanilla.
Whatever works for you is the BEST way to do it. We can all have our opinions and make suggestions but until you've tried it yourself and found what works for you, it's all just conjecture.

Tom
I agree completely.(^)
Fatdaddy.
 

MitchP

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Wing Nut,

I will measure the gap between the pedals and the cover.

Everyone hating on the rag joint,

Sorry if I haven't gotten one I'm $800 dollars into this and can't frivolously buy parts I can't see myself needing.

The exhaust and tensioner are next. Already have an NGK and new boot on the way. I'm just so ****** happy to have this bike!
 

fatdaddy

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Wing Nut,

I will measure the gap between the pedals and the cover.

Everyone hating on the rag joint,

Sorry if I haven't gotten one I'm $800 dollars into this and can't frivolously buy parts I can't see myself needing.

The exhaust and tensioner are next. Already have an NGK and new boot on the way. I'm just so ****** happy to have this bike!
I ain't hatin' bro. I just think, In MY opinion, There's something better. If you've installed a few rag joints in the past, have some experience with them, then you can MAKE them work, (cause ya gotta "MAKE" 'em work,) just fine. I just think, again, my opinion, that an adapter is just a more solid and accurate way to do it. And, if ya wanna look back at the posts, I'm the one that was catching crap for putting down the rag joint. So everyone was kinda "HATING" on me. But like I said, COOL. Cause everybody has there own way of doing stuff. IT'S YOUR BIKE, BUILD IT YOUR WAY.
fatdaddy.
P.S. I got the other site to allow the word CRAP. You don't get bleeped for CRAP as of today. Cause I use the word CRAP or CRAPPY a lot. crap, crap, crap.
 

Groove

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Nov 2, 2012
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Lexington, KY
I installed the sprocket using a rag joint on first bike. It works but I am curious to see for myself what difference a hub adapter can make in terms of precision sprocket rotation. So I bought one for my second bike (won't say where I got it because that seems to be a hot topic too). Once I get it mounted (hopefully it fits on my Cranbrook...not sure any more after reading some threads about that..), I'll share my experience. In China they use rag joints due to cost I am assuming and they sure seem to be speeding around without issues...
 

fatdaddy

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I installed the sprocket using a rag joint on first bike. It works but I am curious to see for myself what difference a hub adapter can make in terms of precision sprocket rotation. So I bought one for my second bike (won't say where I got it because that seems to be a hot topic too). Once I get it mounted (hopefully it fits on my Cranbrook...not sure any more after reading some threads about that..), I'll share my experience. In China they use rag joints due to cost I am assuming and they sure seem to be speeding around without issues...
The Howard mount was made just for a Cranbrook, wich is the one I'm using on mine. When the Sarge moved to a new place he put off production for a while. Right now he's putting together a lighting system to run off the white wire. You can see it here. http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthr...Depot-headlight-revisited&p=354069#post354069.
As far as I know I have the last Howard Sprocket Adapter for sell untill he gets back into production. I checked out as many adapters as I could that would fit a Cranbrook, and this one looked like the most heavy duty one that you can still use your 9 hole sprocket with. So I bought one from him and he sent a few more for me to sell for him locally in my area. I've had NOT ONE problem with it and expect it to last forever. You can see a pic of in in post# 24 this thread.
fatdaddy.
 

Groove

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Hey fatdaddy - Yeah, I read all those post b/w you and the Sarge, back when he was first getting into it. He figured out a pretty genious design, but didn't figure out paypal. ha! So you're using the Howard version now? I have two Cranbrooks and one has hub diameter of 1.507 and the other has diameter of 1.527. Would the Howard version work on either hub ya think? And one sort of related question - should the engine be tilted SLIGHTLY to the left on the frame in order to receive the chain more smoothly? Have you heard of this before? My grinding / occasional pop sound might not be sprocket alignment, but rather, I need to make sure both sprockets are on the same plane?
 

wing nut

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Aug 9, 2012
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warren p.a.
sounds good ..mitch p
i guess that not all stock crank sets are the same width ..yours may work out ..idk
i am not a fan of rag joints either & i use a mm hub adapter
odviously im not a fan of the stock tensioner either
im sure you could ghetto something together fer a couple bucks & go a few miles ..that's your option
 

Groove

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Lexington, KY
Cool, but if you look directly down the bike frame, is your motor mounted exactly in the center, or is it leaning ever slightly to the left to accept the chain better? My motor is exactly dead nuts in the center but someone suggested loosening the mounts and positioning it so it leans slightly left to stop the chain popping noise.

I like the way it's mounted nice and square, but maybe I could grind the outside edges of the teeth in the small drive sprocket? Do I have to take the sprocket off to do that? Or can I just dremel grind the teeth making sure not to get shavings into the motor, etc?
 
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Pilotgeek

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Apr 6, 2011
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Green Bay, WI
That pop sound is likely the edge of a tooth snagging the chain and pulling it up until it gets tight, at which point it "pops" off the tooth and back down. If you grind the teeth to be more rounded, it may or may not get rid of the sound. Having the front to rear alignment perfect helps with this. I know mine has just a barely noticeable tilt to the left (mount is a little crooked) and my chain has always fed fine.

I do have a theory of why a left-tilted engine may make the popping sound stop. If the engine is leaning left, the sprocket leans down toward the rear sprocket, causing the chain to fall the furthest it can outward. If your rear sprocket sits further to the right than the engine sprocket, the chain will want to curve inward from the engine sprocket to the rear sprocket. Because the chain is already sitting further out on the front sprocket, there's spare room for the left side of the chain to clear the teeth without touching the sprocket and bending the links.

#1 would be my leaning engine theory. Engine sprocket, viewed from above. Sorry for terrible MS paint quality.
 
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Groove

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Nov 2, 2012
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Thanks! Yeah, I've tried some alignment things and it seems pretty good, but I might have to resort to grinding the teeth. Do I remove the engine sprocket first, or just have at it after removing the chain?

That diagram is perfect. That's what I think this other guy in Lexington had just learned through experience but you've shown the reason why. Thanks.
 
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Pilotgeek

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I would personally remove the sprocket to do it, that way you have more room to work, and there's less chance of getting metal shavings / dust into grease or bearings. If you take the sprocket off, you can spray it down with brake cleaner before reinstalling it.