Indian Hiawatha

[Allen_Wrench]

Say, Silverbear, what kind of handlebars did you put on the Hiawatha? Are they the originals? I saw them and liked them a lot. They look like Walds. I'm thinking I'd like that kind even better than what I have on the Higgins now.

BTW: really sweet bike. I've always had a soft spot for red bikes with white tires.

 

[silverbear]

Ted,
Our old Cherokee jeeps will probably outlive us both.

Allen,
The handle bar is an original from a ladies 1952 Schwinn. They used the same one (probably made by Wald) for a number of years. I wanted it to be longer and asked Steve what he thought about extending them. He was game to try, so I cut off a couple of straight sections from a newer bar about the same as the length of a throttle or grip. Then we cut a pair of little "couplings"out of the same handlebar donor, each one a couple of inches long... slotted so that the coupling could be compressed to fit inside the end of the handlebar and into the extension. This kept everything straight and gave Steve something to weld to by leaving a wee space between the handlebar and extension. Turned out much better than I imagined it would and looks like it might be original to this bike... worn looking without being rusty. The grips and brakes, clutch, cover up the welded and ground area so you'd never know. The little Hobart 110 volt welder and a side grinder open up a whole world of fabrication possibilities. Each tool has already paid for itself just this summer alone.
SB

 

[silverbear]

Curtis Fox sent along a couple of photos showing progress on the Monarch leaf spring forks...

"I desided to make to make a couple of nylon bushings for the springs insted of metal to metal bolt to spring. I was going to drill the bolts and put a serk for gress but got to thinking this was easiro and will not ever need to replace I don't think. I had the nylon found in recycling center. I just cut off a couple of chunks,drilled it for a bolt put it in and stuck it in the lathe.


I got to thinking that just incase it is not stiff enough I have the exses that I cut off the spring and will send it along just incase.

I am realy injoying this it is a great learning expierance fo me and will know what to do when I start my build...........................Curt"

Coming along, Curtis!
SB

 

[silverbear]

Not a lot to report on the Hiawatha build. I arrived in Maryland a week ago and most of my time has been spend unpacking and settling in which includes trying to set up a work space. One bit of progress comes from Curtis Fox...

"Drilled the bolt today and started the tap while in the lathe so it would go srieght. Tap the rest by hand. I have my little torch back now so can do all the brazing with it when ready. Its the next step up from a joulers torch one can spot braze insted of getting the hole thing hot awesome for small detail.....................Curt"

SB

 

[Allen_Wrench]

Ted,
Our old Cherokee jeeps will probably outlive us both.

Allen,
The handle bar is an original from a ladies 1952 Schwinn. They used the same one (probably made by Wald) for a number of years. I wanted it to be longer and asked Steve what he thought about extending them. He was game to try, so I cut off a couple of straight sections from a newer bar about the same as the length of a throttle or grip. Then we cut a pair of little "couplings"out of the same handlebar donor, each one a couple of inches long... slotted so that the coupling could be compressed to fit inside the end of the handlebar and into the extension. This kept everything straight and gave Steve something to weld to by leaving a wee space between the handlebar and extension. Turned out much better than I imagined it would and looks like it might be original to this bike... worn looking without being rusty. The grips and brakes, clutch, cover up the welded and ground area so you'd never know. The little Hobart 110 volt welder and a side grinder open up a whole world of fabrication possibilities. Each tool has already paid for itself just this summer alone.
SB

Silverbear, I already noted this under my "Scored a Higgins" thread, but I wanted to let you know: your extending these handlebars emboldened me to try it myself. Of course, working with different/less know-how, I did it my own way. I heated my bars and chilled my couplings. As the outer bars cooled back down, they shrank. And as my couplings warmed up, they expanded. It's as tight as a connection as if I'd welded them. But you have to start with PRECISELY the right size tubes to pull this off: the smaller coupling tube must begin by being just a hair too big to easily slide into the handlebar end. In other words: I lucked out.

 

[silverbear]

Silverbear, I already noted this under my "Scored a Higgins" thread, but I wanted to let you know: your extending these handlebars emboldened me to try it myself. Of course, working with different/less know-how, I did it my own way. I heated my bars and chilled my couplings. As the outer bars cooled back down, they shrank. And as my couplings warmed up, they expanded. It's as tight as a connection as if I'd welded them. But you have to start with PRECISELY the right size tubes to pull this off: the smaller coupling tube must begin by being just a hair too big to easily slide into the handlebar end. In other words: I lucked out.

What a good idea, Allen! Thinking outside of the box with great results. Do you know what the smaller tubing was from?
SB

 

[Allen_Wrench]

What a good idea, Allen! Thinking outside of the box with great results. Do you know what the smaller tubing was from?
SB

Originally? No definite clue. 'Though I think it might have been part of a light fixture once (if its the piece I'm thinking of). It was supposed to be in my "pack-rat" box of odd-and-ends-I-might-need-someday. I was about to put it back in when I took note of its size and tested it out.

If anyone were to ask me where to get more like it, well - can't help you there. Like I say, I kinda lucked out. I just happened to have kept a piece just the right size (instead of pitching it) and let it collect dust until just last night.

 

[silverbear]

I'm finally back to work on the Indian Hiawatha. After many hours spent on the 1939 Hiawatha fenders they finally look pretty good, good enough for the first coat of finish paint anyway. Pictured is the rear fender. The whole bike will be gone over again when it is back in Minnesota in early summer as there will be inevitable scrapes and abrasions by the time the build is complete and transported 1300 miles home again. So there's no point in getting too crazy about perfection and no point in clear coating until phase two. All three fenders are drying (including the one for the sidecar wheel) and will get bolted onto the bike this coming Saturday when Dan and I will do some more work in the Tinsmith's shop.

I didn't have the camera with me last Saturday when we started cutting out pattern pieces for the copper gas tank, but I'll take the camera along to document the gas tank fabrication next time. First we'll make one out of tin to figure out the best way to do it. The heavy sheet of copper to be used for the final tank was given to me by Tim Boelner last winter and has been waiting all this time to become something beautiful... a coffin shaped copper gas tank... woohoo! Some of the same techniques will come into play as we used last year in making in frame tanks for a vintage cantilever Schwinn, but every tank is different and this one will present it's own challenges. Winter is coming soon and our Saturday rides are about done with I imagine, so more progress will come on the Indian with the wood stove burning and soon enough snow falling outside. I look forward to the coming Saturday sessions in Dan's shop where lots of creative staring and quiet work, some laughs and interesting conversation make Saturday the best day of the week for me and something to look forward to.

Back in Minnesota, Curtis Fox is about ready for Old Man Winter now and will be plugging away at the leaf spring fork now and then in his workshop.

All I want for Christmas is an Indian Hiawatha with a canoe sidecar powered by a 1932 Fitchel Sachs 98cc 2 speed motorcycle engine. (Not much, Santa, really!) I've been a good boy this year, for the most part, and Santa's elves are at work. Should be a good Christmas, especially if I can wheel the bike out of the shop over the holidays and fire up that motor for the first time... wonder what it will sound like?

I may look like an old man, but don't let the disguise fool ya. It's great to be twelve years old year after year after year. Ha! See you at the Tinsmith's.
SB

 

[curtisfox]

Its been nice untill yesterday, it clouded over and snowed last night. The sun is out so won't last. I need to got to lake and cut another load of wood for fire place yet. Run into a snag with the sholder bolts. Went to Fastenal and got what they had but need to be turned down on the lathe unless I find some that will work elseware. Going to try Master see what they have.
I also dug out my frame and am going to work on it after the forks. Its the Raleigh that I started for a Shaw build. Good luck with the tank.........Curt

Fenders look great what collor is that again?

 

[fasteddy]

After watching you work on those fenders all summer it looks great to see that they finally have paint on them. They look wonderful and will go so well with the sidecar.

The final thrill other than riding it will be the first start of the mighty Sachs engine as it roars into life. I'm sure that Santa won't let a kid down.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

It's raining today, but just angel spit to let me know my thoughts are not entirely pure... probably because I just read over this thread in it's entirety and was reminded of the ruby red paint being a "chick magnet". I will endeavor to keep my thoughts more in line with my age... and I hang my head in shame, a lil' bit.

Curt, the paint is Van Sickle tractor paint and the color is Gloss Case IH Red 455 70 and contains a "rust arrestor". I'll say again that it's the best paint I've ever used... doesn't tend to run and covers great with a nice gloss. I used one can for three fenders and it costs half what Dupli Color costs. Color choice is somewhat limited, but awesome paint.

Steve, I wasted a good bit of time this summer by using first JB Weld and later the epoxy from Harbor Freight... too hard so the sanding takes forever. More recently I bought some Bondo for auto body work... haven't used any of it for many years, but recognized the smell as soon as I opened up the can, same delightful aroma as thirty years ago. It isn't as rock hard as the other stuff and costs a lot less, takes less sandpaper and time. Next fenders will get Bondo. JB Weld is fine for minor work or a dink in the frame but for mangled fenders like these were, Bondo is the better choice. I used a plastic card (old library card, like a credit card) for spreading the bondo... bent to follow the curvature of the fender. You guys know this stuff, but maybe someone new to this doesn't, so I mention it.

It would be nice if you guys were there in the Tinsmith's shop on Saturdays and could join in the fun. Dan would like to meet you both and I'm sure there would be a lot of interesting information to exchange... like that day we spent with Dave the vintage motor man when we got the Sachs motors this summer. All three of you guys are knowledgeable about a lot of things. I've said before that my friends have their fingerprints all over this build and it's true. It is as much your work as mine... a joint effort. Many thanks you guys. You are each welcome to take it for a ride once it is roadworthy. Gonna be an awesome bike and I'll be reminded of each of you through the years as I ride it. You might not think it's a big deal, but it is to me.
SB

 

[azbill]

hold your head high, my friend !!!

just 'cause we have snow on our roofs,
it doesn't mean we don't have fire in the fireplace

 

[fasteddy]

You only need to smell Bodo once to recognize it anywhere.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

Bill,
Definitely accumulating snow on the roof and if the fire goes totally out in the wood stove the end is near...

Steve,
Surprising with some of the weird after shaves out there that somebody hasn't tried to market essence of Bondo for the real man.

Both fenders have flaws, but look real good, I think. Below is the front fender, in my opinion one of the most beautiful fender designs I've ever seen. Steve, thanks again for welding in the little plate where the fender bolted to the fork from underneath. That will allow me to rotate the fender so the rear support is in line with the horizontal line of the frame. The ornament got moved up onto the fender a few inches so that the horizontal line at the headdress aligns with the same horizontal frame line. Seemingly small things, but it would have bugged me to not make the little changes while the fender was a mess. Looking at it now I'm glad I put the effort and time into it. And to think that I had to debate myself over whether or not to use them just last summer. That 39 ladies Hiawatha yielded a lot of good stuff. Saturday I'll bolt the fenders and rear rack onto the bike to inspire more progress on this build. It's starting to look like some lucky boy's Christmas present.
SB

 

[curtisfox]

Looking awesome you picked a good color, same as my tractor.

Measure from the top mount bolt down the the brace holes for me. I want to see how they will line up with the fork...............Curt

 

[silverbear]

Hey Curtis,
I'm not real sure what measurement you want. Would that be the uppermost point on the fender where it will align with the top of the fork bolt hole? It isn't drilled yet as I didn't know for sure how the fender will get attached to the fork you're fabbing. What I can do on Saturday is mount the fender and get a measurement from where it would align with the present Worksman fork with the rear fender support aligned with the horizontal line of the frame of the bike... from that point to where the axle mounts to the support holes (to the center of the holes) . Would that be the measurement you want?
SB

 

[curtisfox]

Yes thats it. I sorta want to double check and see how things will line up. Can the braceses be moved down much?.............Curt

From the top bolt hole down to the axel bolts holes

 

[silverbear]

No, the braces can't be moved without major alterations and a nervous breakdown. I'd rather use a spacer somewhere if need be than try to move those braces. If I have to I'll find another way to mount them at the front axle, a little plate or something. I'll figure out a way to mount them to the fork you make. I'll get the measurement Saturday.
SB

 

[curtisfox]

Ok thanks I will see how it will work. There are tow different lenght forks so might have to us the shorter one on yours..........Curt

 

[silverbear]

Morning Steve and Tim, Dan and Curt, Ron, Ted and all of you old boys following this thread...

Grey with fog here. Leaf change is over and the long, bland, grind of winter is settling in. I guess it would be OK if I felt more sunshine and life on the inside, but it doesn't come naturally any more, if it ever really did. At least when we were young there was a sense of more opportunity for life and enjoyment later on, like when we were boys dreaming of school's end and summer vacation. Now we are more cognizant of the reality that our days are truly numbered. Most of the sand is in the bottom of the hourglass, so it is especially irksome to be waiting when there is so little time in the grand scale of things.

I can forget about this passage sometimes when dreaming of, working on or riding a motorbike, which is why it has become so important. At those times I am not saying the long goodbye to youth, to the women and places I have loved, children all grown up, to plans and great expectations. I guess the trick is in learning how to savor, to gracefully let go without simply giving up.

I'm not very good at it, I find, so with no small desperation I latch onto a fender even older than I am and admire it's beauty, picturing a summer evening when it will be part of a magical time machine transporting me as a twelve year old cleverly disguised as an old man. And so I dream of summer and a sort of motorcycle, with a grinning dog wearing doggles next to me in her canoe sidecar, riding down a street in Ely, Minnesota on the edge of the Boundary Waters Wilderness. Sharing the street is my Canadian friend on his Indian Tri-Car, also twelve with his life ahead of him and legs not yet damaged. Our wheels touch the road eagerly, antique engines pulling us along into the future. While riding we go off into the unknown, trusting the goodness of long life as timeless spirits, boys on their motor bicycles, smiling, smiling...

I'm grateful to have something to look forward to, some bright spot in the middle of all this grey. And so this forum and my comrades with spoke wrenches give me much to be thankful for. Thanksgiving is a daily thing, reminding me of our riches and common ground.

Coff cup is empty, so back to work, figuring out what I need to fabricate for the shift mechanism so I can go from low to high gear and listen to that old 2 stroke come into it's power... oh, boy! Should the shift lever attach to the copper gas tank or to the frame? Brass lever with a wooden knob? Summer is only half a year from now with much to do so that Indian Hiawatha is ready to roll. I better get a move on....woohoo!
SB