Indian Tadpole

[silverbear]

Very cool looking build SB, you always make such quality work. Can't wait to see what you do with this one It looks like it will be an instant favorite when it's done

Thank you, sir. I think this bike has a great future and I'm looking forward to the many stages in its development.

I'm going to ask for opinions on some fenders I'm considering using on it. I know they are nothing like what would have been on a 1909 Indian tri-car, but it also wouldn't have had a Villiars engine, a belt drive system or drum brakes, copper gas tank, etc. So why sweat the fenders? I'm not much into replicas for myself, although I can appreciate ones others have made. I just don't have that kind of patience or the money either. I tend to look around at what I have, what I can make and what I like and go from there. The main thing I like about the tri-car is the cool bike frame and the wheels up front. As I said before, I'll do this build "in the spirit of" and it will look like an old time motorcycle of some kind and that will be enough to make me happy.

The fenders below are from a 1939 Hiawatha ladies model and I think they are so cool. I also like the fender ornament. Also pictured is a rack from a 60's Hiawatha Seminole girl's bike. It attaches behind the seat post and directly to the fender... not the axle area, so would not interfere with the curved fender struts.

So, my question is whether or not you think these will work on this build. Thanks for any feedback.
SB

 

[harry76]

UGH no way SB, they are terrible looking. If i were you id throw them in a box and send them as far away as possible, Brisbane Australia sounds like a good destination. In fact you have my address already. HAHAHA

Seriously ive never seen these fenders, but i love them. If i had em id be using them. **** YEAH!!!!!!!!

 

[curtisfox]

And if Australia is to far I think you still have my address?

Use them they are AWESOME! I realy love what you are doing, and its your bike build it the way you want Got a spair Villers motor.
Back to work on your forks will get them done soon............Curt

 

[silverbear]

Hey Curtis,
Good to see you back from your road trip. No spare Villiars, I'm afraid.

I got these fenders last summer in that treasure hunt through the pile of three hundred dump bikes my friend Scot had accumulated and which had been under tarps for fifteen years or so.. I have to see if Scot is still up for going through the remaining estimated 250 which are in sheds and garages. Most were junk, but there were a few treasures... like these fenders, the seat, a 51 and 53 Schwinn Hornet, a 50's Monarch that got sent up to Fasteddy. All free stuff. Makes me wonder what treasures await...

Well, you guys, I decided to do a kind of mock up to see how they look on the bike. Nothing is attached, just sitting there, but it is enough to get a good idea.

I had already started work on the front fender a week ago, not knowing what I was going to do with it, but certain it was going to find a home on some build. It still needs more work and the back fender has not yet been stripped or anything. The ornament cleaned up nicely. I realized that the front fender didn't look right the way I had it in the first photo with the top bolt hole lined up to the fork. The bottom strut or whatever you call it was not in line with the frame of the bike, so I rotated the fender forward some to make the strut line up with the frame (see picture four) and now it is better. That means I will have to fill the hole (guess I'll silver solder a piece of fender from the inside) and move the mounting hole back some. I also changed the seat and may end up reupholstering it in the thicker harness leather. I like the shape of the seat better. I think this might work. I may need to move the ornament back a few inches, too.

Curtis, I know you have a lot on your plate. When the time comes that you can finish up the leaf spring fork that will be awesome. It will go a long way in giving this build an old motorcycle look and will earn you a ride on it any time you're in this neck of the woods. Maybe for the Blueberry Arts Festival in Ely, eh? Fasteddy will be here in a couple more weeks. You can tool around on the Panther if you come up.

What do you think? Is this going to work?
SB

 

[harry76]

WOW WOW WOW!!!!! I love it. Yeah those fenders and ornament are just beautiful.... I say leave the ornament where it is. Just perfect. This is going to be a beauty. What color is the bike going to be?

 

[fasteddy]

Indian Tri-car Build pictures by speedydick - Photobucket

I have posted a few more photos of the spindle holders I'm building. The first photos are as they are now. The rest are various attempts that were less than stellar.

I figured they would be hard to build and I wasn't the least bit disappointed. I finally wound up cutting them into sections and welding them back into one piece then narrowing them top and bottom so the spring holder on top and the spindle on the bottom would fit.

I have the springs that came from mini bike forks that are new and never used for the suspension and bearings that will fit inside the pipe that will be the spindles.
A 3/4 inch bolt will be the king pin.

I'm going to shape the top and bottom a little so it looks a little less square. I'll take more photos after I do it.

I'm bringing these with me down to Silverbears and will have the welder pass judgement on wether or not my welding is safe to use. Having taken Mr. Toads Wild Ride through Hill and Dale I would like a professional opinion so there will not be a repeat.
We can then have him finish them off if they are OK.

The Indian badge that is one I bought from a man who does very high end reproduction badges and automobile items. He was listed here on the forum and I got in touch with him. I'll have to look up his company name though I think it's on the box he sent the badge in.
That's his hand writing on the box.

He told me that the Indian badge was the most labour intensive one he made. Very heavy copper base and firing the enameling was repeated 13 times. What doesn't show up is the design under the enamel that can be seen in the back ground.

The cost was $200. Worth it? To me yes. Years ago I had a friend that made enamel jewlery and I saw the work it took so I paid the price.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

The company is called Nostalgic Reflections. Lots of bike parts such as light lenses, decals, badges and fender ornaments.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

Here are Fasteddy's photobucket pictures of the spindle deals... (more showing process at the site).

Steve,
Explain what we're looking at here. I don't pretend to understand. The front axle for the wheels go where in relation to these? What will connect the axle to the front fork? And then we're going to need a couple donor forks, right? Since these bikes will be convertible from two wheel to three wheel we'll each need two forks, right? I'm glad you're doing this. I'd never be able to do it on my own in a million years. Me brain gets foggled just thinking about it.
SB

 

[silverbear]

And these are the photos of the head badge. Oh my. Look at that.

Fasteddy's version of the tri-car is the earlier one, for any of you taking a peak at this thread for the first time. Mine is the later one. His uses a diamond frame and will have the camel back gas tank behind the seat... (check back a couple pages on this thread and you'll see the donor).

If I remember correctly you were thinking about a deep blue color for your Indian, is that right? That badge is a work of art and will look fantastic.
SB

 

[curtisfox]

Hey Curtis,
Good to see you back from your road trip. No spare Villiars, I'm afraid.

I got these fenders last summer in that treasure hunt through the pile of three hundred dump bikes my friend Scot had accumulated and which had been under tarps for fifteen years or so.. I have to see if Scot is still up for going through the remaining estimated 250 which are in sheds and garages. Most were junk, but there were a few treasures... like these fenders, the seat, a 51 and 53 Schwinn Hornet, a 50's Monarch that got sent up to Fasteddy. All free stuff. Makes me wonder what treasures await...

Well, you guys, I decided to do a kind of mock up to see how they look on the bike. Nothing is attached, just sitting there, but it is enough to get a good idea.

I had already started work on the front fender a week ago, not knowing what I was going to do with it, but certain it was going to find a home on some build. It still needs more work and the back fender has not yet been stripped or anything. The ornament cleaned up nicely. I realized that the front fender didn't look right the way I had it in the first photo with the top bolt hole lined up to the fork. The bottom strut or whatever you call it was not in line with the frame of the bike, so I rotated the fender forward some to make the strut line up with the frame (see picture four) and now it is better. That means I will have to fill the hole (guess I'll silver solder a piece of fender from the inside) and move the mounting hole back some. I also changed the seat and may end up reupholstering it in the thicker harness leather. I like the shape of the seat better. I think this might work. I may need to move the ornament back a few inches, too.

Curtis, I know you have a lot on your plate. When the time comes that you can finish up the leaf spring fork that will be awesome. It will go a long way in giving this build an old motorcycle look and will earn you a ride on it any time you're in this neck of the woods. Maybe for the Blueberry Arts Festival in Ely, eh? Fasteddy will be here in a couple more weeks. You can tool around on the Panther if you come up.

What do you think? Is this going to work?
SB

What are the dates of the festival? That trip put me behind,all I can say is will see what happens.
Went to back to the 50's yesterday 12,ooo old cars and pickups.Seen a lot of guys are starting to restore old motorcycles and are caring them in the back of the pickups. COOL ..........let you know.....Curt

 

[rustycase]

EPIC thread!

All of you have done an excellent job of creating a resource here!
Tnx
rc

 

[Tinsmith]

SB, What a great looking project. Looks like you got a good job on the frame modification, and the price was very reasonable. Isn't it something how that schwinn girls bike frame fits right in there? Looks like everything is working well. Where did you come by the seat post? Mine faces forward as you know, but if I decide to go the other direction where would I find one like yours? Have fun! Dan

 

[silverbear]

Thanks you guys...
Dan, that seat post is a "7" seat post from an old Elgin. I have one on the current Elgin Velocipede build which is a little different in that it is more like an upside down "L" shape. It depends on the seat you are using which will fit. The seat I worked on for your bike and which you found on ebay is also a 7 if I remember right and is different in that it is small and solid steel on the upper part and is larger on the bottom section that fits inside the seat post. The old Hiawatha's are like yours with two different diameters. Most are like the Elgin and of the same smaller diameter above and below. You didn't have to do anything special to be able to use your post on your Worksman as it fit right in there. On my Worksman I used the Elgin type and had to make shims, first out of a section of handlebar and then more shimming with copper pipe sections. Now it is tight.
It may be that with your seat you can just turn your 7 around so that instead of facing backwards it faces forwards. It may require you to fiddle with the receiver hardware on the bottom of the seat. Try it. If you need one like mine and are willing to do the shimming (not a big deal) you are welcome to my spare. It happens to be in very nice condition and has your name on it. Let me know and I can send it to you. I think it came off of the 38 Elgin which burned in the fire.
SB

 

[Tinsmith]

SB, I'm gonna go with what I have your seat on for the time being and see how it feels and looks. It does require just a little shimming, but no big deal. You are correct, the bottom tube of the post is larger than the solid top portion. The way it is set up is to face forward (7). It sets the seat parallel to the top frame tube. If I turn it around it slants down a good bit and my old butt wouldn't stay on it that way, even though I see alot of kids with their seats set that way. There are enough "little issues" to deal with getting everything set up for now so I'll go with what I have and let you know what happens. If I get her running soon I'll get a video of the maiden run for ya! Dan

 

[silverbear]

Cool, Dan,
If you end up wanting it you can have it. Be the way, the seat on the bike was not designed to go with an old 7 post. It is a newer type of seat from the 50's I would guess and has the receiver part that normally is vertical turned so that it is more horizontal... the 7 post fits in there OK. This is for anyone else looking for an alternative lay back seat post.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

Indian Tri-car Build pictures by speedydick - Photobucket

I put the spindle and the springs in the spindle holder to better explain what I have in mind. It's a little crooked since I haven't ground the welds flat.

The spindle will ride up and down on the king pin as the spring absorbs the bumps. I have to hone the inside of the spindles so the bearings will fit in when I press them into the spindle.
An axle will be welded on at the right hight as well as steering arms.

Silverbear to answer you question. There will be a hole drilled for the axle in the flat part of the spindle holder. I'm thinking that there should be another plate welded to the inside of the spindle holder so that all the pressure won't be just on the one weld.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

http://motorbicycling.com/attachments/f44/31557d1291383286-indian-tadpole-screenshot208.jpg

Silverbear, as you can see we won't need forks for the tri-car, Just handlebars.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Curtis, when I get back home this fall I'll put an ad in the paper on Vancouver Island for Atco Villiers mowers and motors. There should be some there since I've seen old ad's selling them, on the computer.
I'll try and get a few lined up at one time since it costs $130 each way on the ferry for my camper and trailer.

If that fails I'll get ahold of people in England that repair and sell them and see what they cost to ship over here and to you.

 

[NEAT TIMES]

Canadian Eddy=

Does that mean small stream in Ojibwa?

Was studying your spindles. Would bearings with the outer flange work ok, then use a shaft spacer on the bottom bearing and the thru bolt. That way the inner bearing race would carry the weight and turn easier!!?? A shaft spacer would do the same on the top. Your springs will be on the bottom and would need an extra or special washer with a shaft shim/spacer. Knowing you, it is all figured out already.

May see you guys around October.

Ron

 

[fasteddy]

Ron, Ya lost me.
I set it up as close to the way Indian did as I could. Would have liked to have found bearings with a flange so the spindles rode on them and not the spring cup above it but couldn't.

I'll go back and have a look and see if I can find some.

Steve.