1911 Indian

[tomgndallas]

We've had no problems running the stock connecting rod up to 6000 rpm. Frequent oil changes with a good oil are very important. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the stock rod is metal to metal with the crank journal which is fine for a motor running at no more than 3600 rpm.

Once we modify these motors so they are capable of over 6000 rpm we definitely use a billet connecting rod. The billet rods have bearings like car engines do. When you place a billet rod side by side with a stock rod, the stock rod looks like it was built by caveman. The billet rods are very high quality.

Another good reason to use a billet rod in this application (with the engine sitting at 90 degrees) is because instead of having a simple dipper, it has a scooper. The scooper is cupped and actually scoops up oil and slings it into the cylinder.

In our go karts we run the engines on a 15 degree motor mount. I have never seen one mounted at about 90 degrees until I saw Lurkers bike. Hopefully Lurker is putting some miles on his bike and we can get some feedback on how well the oiling system (dipper) is working. Glad to see so many others going the same route with the clone motor.

The stock connecting rod is the weakest link in the 6.5hp clone motor. As I said above we had no problems with the stock rod up to 6000 rpm as long as we changed the oil frequently. The stock flywheel would be the next weak link. When you remove the governor and spin these engines beyond 3600 rpm the magnet can separate itself from the flywheel. The magnet is held in place with epoxy and a screw. Our aluminum flywheels have magnets that are either cast into the flywheel or held in with roll pins. These magnets will not separate from the flywheel. The aluminum flywheels are much lighter than stock too. Reducing that rotating mass is good for almost 1hp. That's a big gain in power considering the engine only produces 6.5hp.

I should probably read more of your post before I start slinging out questions...

So in AGK's opinion, what are your thoughts in notching for oil drain like cobra did? See the comment on bearings so that question is covered, as well as flywheel and connecting rod, and carb. Can I get all those parts direct from AGK? you take paypal at all?

 

[cobrafreak]

I got the torq a vert at MFG supply and all the engine components at AGK. AGK has something like a Torq a vert but it is a different brand. AGK ships usually on the day you order which is great. The stock piston is fine, just change the connecting rod, the valve springs, flywheel, and carb and your engine will last a very long time. The GX clone engines are commercial grade, so they already have the beefy bearings. Remember, don't put the engine perfectly strait upward. You want is tilting back about 2 degrees. This is for oil pick-up reasons. My rear mechanical disk brake i will be soon installing within a week will be the answer to a rear brake that will actually work and last.

 

[cobrafreak]

I should probably read more of your post before I start slinging out questions...

So in AGK's opinion, what are your thoughts in notching for oil drain like cobra did? See the comment on bearings so that question is covered, as well as flywheel and connecting rod, and carb. Can I get all those parts direct from AGK? you take paypal at all?

If you have the engine at 90 degrees the only way you will be able to do a complete oil change is take the side cover off, hang the bike from the rafters by the front wheel, or notch that little piece of aluminum in the case. Its just a case of gravity. The engine was not designed to run at 90 so Honda and Clones were not designed to drain oil at 90 degrees. When you have yours apart on you bench you will see what has to be done.

 

[tomgndallas]

Got it here:
218352A - Torq-A-Verter, 3/4" Bore 12 Teeth, #35 Chain Torque Converter. Made in the USA

and it's 20 bones cheaper than AGK! So my next question, drum roll please...

in the pic of the con rod it looks like you picked up one of the longer ones for deeper dwell and all that, is that right? Also if u had to do it again would u still go the performance route? reliability is what i do for a living so i was thinking to just make engine safe, especially since i dont think u will ever fully utilize all the horsepower, unless u r mountain climbing!

 

[cobrafreak]

and it's 20 bones cheaper than AGK! So my next question, drum roll please...

in the pic of the con rod it looks like you picked up one of the longer ones for deeper dwell and all that, is that right? Also if u had to do it again would u still go the performance route? reliability is what i do for a living so i was thinking to just make engine safe, especially since i dont think u will ever fully utilize all the horsepower, unless u r mountain climbing!

I don't think I did the performance route at all. The Con Rod is stock length. I got it to prevent catastrophic failure, "thrown rod through the case". The flywheel is the stock timing and is just to keep the magnet from flying off and stranding me.. I'm using the stock Cam. The valve spring upgrade is just to keep the valves from floating at high rpm. The Carb i chose lets me use a throttle cable without linkage. It just so happens that I gained HP by doing these things but my intentions were to just make a very tough engine. If I were to go all out hp I would have got a flywheel with advanced timing, got a high lift high duration cam, roller rockers, longer con rod, etc. There is a 12% grade that I ride on all the time and I can go up it at 35mph. My old engine went up it at 12mph. The new engine does it's job. But it's really the quickness off the line that is the best. It's as quick as the family car from a stop to 35mph. I was always afraid of "the family car" hitting me because I got in the way, but now I don't. Quick is safe.

 

[tomgndallas]

Another great write up. That is the route I will most likely take. I had the original intention of doing a mild cam but I think I will go stock. Also I was concerned with oem piston being a POS based in what I have heard on the china girl front. Dont want to put money in the engine then have the piston fail catastrophically. So since the bike is moving like a motorcycle what is the real need behind using the fan bladed flywheel? Are the fins on the cylinder not sufficient to meet the heat transfer demand?

 

[tomgndallas]

Another great write up. That is the route I will most likely take. I had the original intention of doing a mild cam but I think I will go stock. Also I was concerned with oem piston being a POS based in what I have heard on the china girl front. Dont want to put money in the engine then have the piston fail catastrophically. So since the bike is moving like a motorcycle what is the real need behind using the fan bladed flywheel? Are the fins on the cylinder not sufficient to meet the heat transfer demand?

Last post was with the iphone, now I am back home and at the computer...

I was looking on AGK last night and attempting to price the upgrades...

Essentially if i went with the upgraded con rod, the better springs, the 22 carb, the cam, the new piston rings and clips, and the transmission, I was out about 550 plus shipping. quite alot to dump into a 70 dollar engine, but considering the alternative is that i eat crap on the ground when the engine craters....a small investment. i can make the cost back in less than 10 days work less taxes, if i crack the pavement and mess up the old meat back i am screwed for life.

Suffice to say, I am down with making the upgrades for reliability, the next piece will be the stopping power and what you and the others can come up with on that front.

what is your radius on your bend for the drop loop? if you by the wheel bender from harbor freight, the bend limit for 1" tube is 5 inches, i am curious if it is even worth it to buy or if i should be looking to outsource locally.

this is proving to be a fun project for me already...take care my friend.

 

[cobrafreak]

Another great write up. That is the route I will most likely take. I had the original intention of doing a mild cam but I think I will go stock. Also I was concerned with oem piston being a POS based in what I have heard on the china girl front. Dont want to put money in the engine then have the piston fail catastrophically. So since the bike is moving like a motorcycle what is the real need behind using the fan bladed flywheel? Are the fins on the cylinder not sufficient to meet the heat transfer demand?

Personally, I don't think that the fins on the engine really are enough alone to disperse the heat. With the fan on it has air going across the some of the cylinder but mostly it has air going across the engine case or bottom end. It's cooling the oil which is being constantly splashed upward into the cylinder and bottom of the piston. Can the engine run without the fan, sure. What temperature do you need the fan? I don't know. I'm glad I have mine because CA is hot in the summer.

 

[cobrafreak]

Last post was with the iphone, now I am back home and at the computer...

I was looking on AGK last night and attempting to price the upgrades...

Essentially if i went with the upgraded con rod, the better springs, the 22 carb, the cam, the new piston rings and clips, and the transmission, I was out about 550 plus shipping. quite alot to dump into a 70 dollar engine, but considering the alternative is that i eat crap on the ground when the engine craters....a small investment. i can make the cost back in less than 10 days work less taxes, if i crack the pavement and mess up the old meat back i am screwed for life.

Suffice to say, I am down with making the upgrades for reliability, the next piece will be the stopping power and what you and the others can come up with on that front.

what is your radius on your bend for the drop loop? if you by the wheel bender from harbor freight, the bend limit for 1" tube is 5 inches, i am curious if it is even worth it to buy or if i should be looking to outsource locally.

this is proving to be a fun project for me already...take care my friend.

Yes, it's a $70 engine because it's a clone. If it were the real deal Honda GX it would be closer to $250. What you are doing in the end is having an engine that is many many times more reliable than a China Girl. Think about not wondering what is going to fail next? Lol.

My loop is 74 degrees with an inside diameter of 9". I didn't use the Harbor Freight tube bender for the loop. I used a guys Radius bender down the road from me. I used my HF bender for everything else though.

Oh, in case you had not noticed, AGK has a fantastic how to section so you can learn how to do all the mods, and they have all the torque values for every bolt on the engine. Very helpful. For the ARP connecting rod bolts you are going to need to buy a 12 point 1/4" socket for your torque wrench. This is mandatory. Don't use a 6 sided or you will ruin the bolts. Pep Boys sells this socket.

 

[tomgndallas]

Yes, it's a $70 engine because it's a clone. If it were the real deal Honda GX it would be closer to $250. What you are doing in the end is having an engine that is many many times more reliable than a China Girl. Think about not wondering what is going to fail next? Lol.

My loop is 74 degrees with an inside diameter of 9". I didn't use the Harbor Freight tube bender for the loop. I used a guys Radius bender down the road from me. I used my HF bender for everything else though.

Oh, in case you had not noticed, AGK has a fantastic how to section so you can learn how to do all the mods, and they have all the torque values for every bolt on the engine. Very helpful. For the ARP connecting rod bolts you are going to need to buy a 12 point 1/4" socket for your torque wrench. This is mandatory. Don't use a 6 sided or you will ruin the bolts. Pep Boys sells this socket.

Thanks for the heads up on the tools, no worries there. When it comes to tool, I have a sweet setup that i have essentially put together over the last 9 years little by little. Surprised a little by the standard measurement though, I had assumed the thing was all metric more or less. No worries there too, I started building out my tool set as a field engineer and when I did a ground up build on a Harley sportster, then i went to restoring metric bikes and built that set of my tools up...hehe. Also, I did see that how to, wow, that is a great resource, I was reading the other night on how to remove the governor and saw they also had that link to torque specs. I have a big torque wrench so may have to shell out some cash and get one that is more suitable in range. I think I will go ahead and swap the piston for a better one, just in case, the pistons are not that much and it will not be too hard to do.


link to my first sporty project if you are interested. I still get a kick out of it...

I used to live in San Diego...nice riding all the time.

page1

 

[cobrafreak]

I successfully added my mechanical rear disk brake to the Indian. Works really good. Quiet. I trust my stopping power now.
As you can see I am running a separate engine chain and pedal chain plus I have threads for the brake disk, formerly a band brake. I think "band brake" is asian for "junk", Lol.

 

[oldtimer54]

Cool setup where did you get your rear wheel? For the last few days Ive been looking for that very setup.

 

[LS614]

nice looking rear brake man Must stop a helluva lot better

 

[cobrafreak]

Cool setup where did you get your rear wheel? For the last few days Ive been looking for that very setup.

It's made by Grubee specifically for motorbikes. It has two right hand threads on each end, one for pedal chain and one for brake, and a left hand thread inboard for the thread-on motor chain. Here is the link:


HD Rear Axle kit

Then you throw the band brake far away because it best serves as a boat anchor, and you put this brake on it:


http://www.bicycledesigner.com/bike-parts/brake/disk-brake-kit.html

 

[cobrafreak]

nice looking rear brake man Must stop a helluva lot better

You have no idea! It was like I didn't have a rear brake before Lol! You know I was expecting this job to take a few days with frame modifications and cutting and welding, but other than making a card board pattern for the caliper mount and making it out of steel (15 minutes) and welding it on the frame (5 minutes) it was super easy. I should have done this from the start.

 

[oldtimer54]

It's made by Grubee specifically for motorbikes. It has two right hand threads on each end, one for pedal chain and one for brake, and a left hand thread inboard for the thread-on motor chain. Here is the link:


HD Rear Axle kit

Then you throw the band brake far away because it best serves as a boat anchor, and you put this brake on it:


Disk Brake Kit

Very nice setup just what I was looking for but where do you buy em? Ive done an internet search with no luck?

 

[cobrafreak]

Very nice setup just what I was looking for but where do you buy em? Ive done an internet search with no luck?

Here you go.


http://www.gasbike.net/bike-motor-engine-heavy-duty-axle-kit-free-wheel.html


http://www.bicycle-engines.com/solid-sprocket-axle-wbrake-p-298.html

 

[cobrafreak]

Ok, I thought I would just try a number plate. What do you think? It covers the entire rotor and I made a twin of it for the opposite side as well.

 

[cobrafreak]

I got around to filming a video of me riding the Indian wearing my antique riding gear.

YouTube - ‪1911 Indian Replica Ride‬‏

 

[oldtimer54]

Not only does it look great but it sounds realy great! I have my motor modded and ready and the bike should be here next week. Got to come up with a CVT next.