The Real Deal on California Law.
- Thread starter bairdco
- Start date
every vehicle code i mentioned states "motorized bicycle."
what you're saying might work in texas, but not here. and since hiring lawyers and going to trial would cost a few thousand times more than 19 bucks for registration and a few more bucks for a helmet and lights, i think i'll just make it legal.
thanks for your input, though...
what you're saying might work in texas, but not here. and since hiring lawyers and going to trial would cost a few thousand times more than 19 bucks for registration and a few more bucks for a helmet and lights, i think i'll just make it legal.
thanks for your input, though...
That's cool. Please be sure to notify all of us who you get your insurance from so you can get that registration. I am sure alot of people would be interested in that.
I have never heard of bicycle insurance but know for sure you need insurance to get a registration. Also even if I could get insurance, wouldn't the DMV need a Manufacturers Statement of Origin to process a "Certificate of Title" for me before they could issue a registration and plate??
All I am saying is the theory of registration etc of a motorized bicycle all sounds good, but in reality I don't believe it can be done.
PS: On the record and for the record I would never hire one of the queens Esquires, I mean an a turn on me, I mean bar fly, oops attorney. Being legally Non Compus Mentus is not a label I would stick on myself in a court.
I have never heard of bicycle insurance but know for sure you need insurance to get a registration. Also even if I could get insurance, wouldn't the DMV need a Manufacturers Statement of Origin to process a "Certificate of Title" for me before they could issue a registration and plate??
All I am saying is the theory of registration etc of a motorized bicycle all sounds good, but in reality I don't believe it can be done.
PS: On the record and for the record I would never hire one of the queens Esquires, I mean an a turn on me, I mean bar fly, oops attorney. Being legally Non Compus Mentus is not a label I would stick on myself in a court.
Last edited:
here in california we don't need insurance for our bikes. the registration is a simple process, using the bike's serial number.
You don’t believe that it can be done? There are plenty of motorized bicycles with plates and registrations in California. This thread is about California law. Registration for a moped or motorized bicycle is easy. You do not need insurance to register it. You do not need a “Manufacturers Statement of Origin“. You do not need a "Certificate of Title". You don’t even need a drivers license if all you want to do is register it and get a license plate. I do have insurance on my motorized bicycle. Even if it is not required to register, it is still available. I’m using Gieco right now.
Please tell us of your successful court experiences.
In California, driving is considered a privilege, not a right. You are free to walk or take public transportation, but if you want to drive a car, or ride something with a motor, you need a license. This state is one of the most screwed up states, but there are other things I will fight before having to license a motorized bicycle.
I am looking into a motorized bike for my son. I might go with an electric bike since it seems to not be considered a "motorized vehicle".
Helmets
You might get by with a skate helmet or a bicycle helmet, but most officers that know the law will know you need a DOT motorcycle helmet. The pavement doesn't know if you fell off a motorcycle or a bicycle, so get a decent helmet. Most experienced motorcycle riders laugh at the DOT approval and want a SNELL approval. Snell approved helmets can be found for around $100 and up. I have a couple HJC helmets. My face isn't great, but I like it, so I won't ride a motorcycle with an open face helmet. I recently bought a "half helmet" on eBay for occasional use. $20 is what I paid and I'll rarely use it, if ever.
Mirrors are pretty simple. Under $3 on eBay.
Trust me, this is something officers looking for an excuse to pull you over, will be looking for. I've been pulled over twice. Once due to breaking the mirror on my motorcycle the day before. Once by a Nevada Highway Patrolman that pulled me over for having only one mirror. I had to educate him that due to being registered in CA and CA only requiring one mirror, I was technically legal. (back in 1982)
Plan B is a baby mirror.
I run one using the mirror clip with a rubber band to hold it on. Adjust it so you look down and under your left arm. I use a little duct tape to keep the mirror from falling off of the mount. I ran one on my dual-sport motorcycle for years. I recently switched back to a more visible mirror. I try to avoid looking like someone who should be pulled over.
Turn signals and brake light
Some say you don't need them, but here is a cheap option. This weighs nothing, costs about $8 and gives functional turn signals. These are NOT DOT signals. The front signal color is not correct (red not amber), so I will be swapping out the LED lights and/or running wires to outboard signal lights. One of these will be going on a dual-sport motorcycle I will be building up. It's a cheap way to get the signals setup until I re-wire the motorcycle. I have a set I may temporally add to my motocross motorcycle just to mess with my friends on my next ride.
You might get by with a skate helmet or a bicycle helmet, but most officers that know the law will know you need a DOT motorcycle helmet. The pavement doesn't know if you fell off a motorcycle or a bicycle, so get a decent helmet. Most experienced motorcycle riders laugh at the DOT approval and want a SNELL approval. Snell approved helmets can be found for around $100 and up. I have a couple HJC helmets. My face isn't great, but I like it, so I won't ride a motorcycle with an open face helmet. I recently bought a "half helmet" on eBay for occasional use. $20 is what I paid and I'll rarely use it, if ever.
Mirrors are pretty simple. Under $3 on eBay.
Trust me, this is something officers looking for an excuse to pull you over, will be looking for. I've been pulled over twice. Once due to breaking the mirror on my motorcycle the day before. Once by a Nevada Highway Patrolman that pulled me over for having only one mirror. I had to educate him that due to being registered in CA and CA only requiring one mirror, I was technically legal. (back in 1982)
Plan B is a baby mirror.
I run one using the mirror clip with a rubber band to hold it on. Adjust it so you look down and under your left arm. I use a little duct tape to keep the mirror from falling off of the mount. I ran one on my dual-sport motorcycle for years. I recently switched back to a more visible mirror. I try to avoid looking like someone who should be pulled over.
Turn signals and brake light
Some say you don't need them, but here is a cheap option. This weighs nothing, costs about $8 and gives functional turn signals. These are NOT DOT signals. The front signal color is not correct (red not amber), so I will be swapping out the LED lights and/or running wires to outboard signal lights. One of these will be going on a dual-sport motorcycle I will be building up. It's a cheap way to get the signals setup until I re-wire the motorcycle. I have a set I may temporally add to my motocross motorcycle just to mess with my friends on my next ride.
Last edited:
that's some good info, Kev.
as for the bicycle vs. DOT helmet, when i was first pulled over i had a protec skateboard helmet on. that and no plate was the main reason the cop pulled me over.
turn signals are NOT required. it is a good idea, though. it's pretty hard to hand signal a turn when you're at a stop with the clutch pulled in.
a left mirror IS required, and once you have one? man, you'll put them on all your bikes.
i posted in another thread that i'm working on making a "california law" combo pack, with all the lights, bells, and whistles you need to be legal. i was talking to some cops who said that soon, statewide, enforcement is gonna be stepped up on us.
they told me straight out that there is no intentions of outlawing our bikes, but according to the head office in sacramento, the number of bikes applying for licenses in the past coupla years has gone waaay up, so the enforcement is gonna go up, too.
as for the bicycle vs. DOT helmet, when i was first pulled over i had a protec skateboard helmet on. that and no plate was the main reason the cop pulled me over.
turn signals are NOT required. it is a good idea, though. it's pretty hard to hand signal a turn when you're at a stop with the clutch pulled in.
a left mirror IS required, and once you have one? man, you'll put them on all your bikes.
i posted in another thread that i'm working on making a "california law" combo pack, with all the lights, bells, and whistles you need to be legal. i was talking to some cops who said that soon, statewide, enforcement is gonna be stepped up on us.
they told me straight out that there is no intentions of outlawing our bikes, but according to the head office in sacramento, the number of bikes applying for licenses in the past coupla years has gone waaay up, so the enforcement is gonna go up, too.
My uncle rode motorcycles, then a Yamaha scooter until he was 85. A woman nearly killed him by hitting him on his Yamaha Vino scooter. That ended his scooter days. To top it off, she gave a fake license and fake insurance to the police officer as my uncle was hauled off on the ambulance.
There are two kinds of drivers out there.
o Those who don't see you.
o Those who do see you and don't care.
Personal preservation is up to YOU!
Always assume you are not seen.
At a stop light, assume a car will not brake in time.
(I always watch the rear view mirror at a light. Saved me in my car once.)
That is the only way to survive riding on the street. (36 years so far.)
There are two kinds of drivers out there.
o Those who don't see you.
o Those who do see you and don't care.
Personal preservation is up to YOU!
Always assume you are not seen.
At a stop light, assume a car will not brake in time.
(I always watch the rear view mirror at a light. Saved me in my car once.)
That is the only way to survive riding on the street. (36 years so far.)
iv'e read every post in this thread up to this point, and this is by far the most interesting post to me O_O
how did you get a grubee up too 48mph? :s
what else was running on this bike cause thats crazy, though it would have been a morini.
here's the thread about my bike: http://motorbicycling.com/f38/backwards-engine-experiment-1939-colson-13458.html
the GT-4's are the best motors i've owned and/or ridden.
i dunno why other people haven't figured out how to go as fast as my bike. it's simple tuning and gearing.
i quit posting speeds without undeniable proof, because there's so many unbelievers, and people with "seat of the pants speedometers" making claims, it's just not worth it. i've ridden with enough people that know how fast i can go, so i'm satisfied with that.
also, my bike's still going strong after a year of everyday WOT riding, so all that BS about the longevity of a heavily modded engine is just that. BS.
the GT-4's are the best motors i've owned and/or ridden.
i dunno why other people haven't figured out how to go as fast as my bike. it's simple tuning and gearing.
i quit posting speeds without undeniable proof, because there's so many unbelievers, and people with "seat of the pants speedometers" making claims, it's just not worth it. i've ridden with enough people that know how fast i can go, so i'm satisfied with that.
also, my bike's still going strong after a year of everyday WOT riding, so all that BS about the longevity of a heavily modded engine is just that. BS.
that's what i was saying. i don't have proof so i quit claiming speeds i've been paced at or whatever. one of these days i will. i don't trust crappy walmart speedos, either.
if you want to see it going fast, lookie here:
this is accelerating up Superior hill in Newport Beach. it's a 6% grade:
YouTube - getting beer is uphill all the way.
these two are riding with traffic on Newport Blvd, which is a 45mph street:
YouTube - me and Happy on Newport Blvd filmed in Belt-cam-o-vision
YouTube - me and happy playing in traffic
getting back on the topic of the law, i'm breaking the 30mph limit in every one of these vids...
if you want to see it going fast, lookie here:
this is accelerating up Superior hill in Newport Beach. it's a 6% grade:
YouTube - getting beer is uphill all the way.
these two are riding with traffic on Newport Blvd, which is a 45mph street:
YouTube - me and Happy on Newport Blvd filmed in Belt-cam-o-vision
YouTube - me and happy playing in traffic
getting back on the topic of the law, i'm breaking the 30mph limit in every one of these vids...
I'm sorry if I missed the answer to this (I read the thread, really!) but my bike has a manual clutch and therefore doesn't fit these DMV definitions:
Therefore, am I exempt technically?
I just read V.C. 406(a) again and nowhere does it say that an automatic clutch is required.
It does say "an automatic transmission" and since these engines only have one "gear" and cannot nor do not shift gears, it is by default an automatic transmission. It automatically stays in one gear.
It does say "an automatic transmission" and since these engines only have one "gear" and cannot nor do not shift gears, it is by default an automatic transmission. It automatically stays in one gear.
ok, since you guys have covered this to death, this will be my last comment on it. I appreciate the good debate on here, and I hope we can respect that there might be more than one point of view and not a single "correct" view.
The clutch is part of a transmission. If you drive your manual car around in 1st gear only you still have a manual transmission. If the clutch engages automatically, it's an automatic transmission, regardless of how many gears you use.
I spoke with Sgt. Marty (friend of mine) today at Div 21 Topanga, he read the DMV code with me, and he agreed that bikes like mine are exempt, that the code is vague, and that I should fight it if I get a ticket.
He also cautioned me to use a mirror and a helmet.
So I'm going to ride it, enjoy it, and carry a printout of the DVM code with me along with his card. Whatever happens, I'll post it.
The clutch is part of a transmission. If you drive your manual car around in 1st gear only you still have a manual transmission. If the clutch engages automatically, it's an automatic transmission, regardless of how many gears you use.
I spoke with Sgt. Marty (friend of mine) today at Div 21 Topanga, he read the DMV code with me, and he agreed that bikes like mine are exempt, that the code is vague, and that I should fight it if I get a ticket.
He also cautioned me to use a mirror and a helmet.
So I'm going to ride it, enjoy it, and carry a printout of the DVM code with me along with his card. Whatever happens, I'll post it.
what amazes me, and the reason this thread gets so out of control and beaten to death, are the people that think there's some magic loophole in the law that makes them invincible, and that they're smarter than the lawmakers, the cops, and the judges.
i started this thread to give people the basics (and the not so basics) on the law after i, personally, recieved a ticket and learned what was necessary. during the course of this thread i've been to court, and been stopped a coupla times, and have talked to many, many cops, some friendly, some not.
on this very thread, we've had comments from a law enforcement officer, who clarified a few things, and there's been plenty of good advice by other forum members to make it easy to register our bikes, ride our bikes, and keep our bikes legal.
then there's the other people.
now, i'm all for being an anarchist, punk rock rebel who flips off cops and spits on the system, but then i remember that i live in california, a state where traffic enforcement is the number one priority, as well as a huge generator of revenue for this beautiful, capitalist, fascist state. a state where, as i type this, it's 70 degrees in the middle of winter, and some of those more lenient states (as well as those places that ban our bikes outright) are under 10 feet of snow.
i'm baffled by so many of you who would risk tickets and impoundment just because you think you can outsmart the system. a system which charges a whopping 19 bucks and makes a few minor demands on you to comply.
if you get busted and pull out your ace in the hole and tell the cop, "i don't have an automatic transmission, therefore, you can't give me a ticket for riding a motorized bicycle."
you think he's gonna just scratch his head and say "i'm sorry sir. you're so much smarter than me. i'm gonna let you go free. i just want some donuts..."
no. he's gonna ask you in that tone they reserve for people they don't like, "if it's not a motorized bicycle, then what is it?"
and since you won't have an answer for that, he'll give you a ticket, impound your bike, and maybe even take you to jail if you have a warrant or suspended license.
meanwhile, i'll just ride by and wave, and think, "man, that guys a real rebel on his toy moped. he ain't takin' no **** from the man..."
i started this thread to give people the basics (and the not so basics) on the law after i, personally, recieved a ticket and learned what was necessary. during the course of this thread i've been to court, and been stopped a coupla times, and have talked to many, many cops, some friendly, some not.
on this very thread, we've had comments from a law enforcement officer, who clarified a few things, and there's been plenty of good advice by other forum members to make it easy to register our bikes, ride our bikes, and keep our bikes legal.
then there's the other people.
now, i'm all for being an anarchist, punk rock rebel who flips off cops and spits on the system, but then i remember that i live in california, a state where traffic enforcement is the number one priority, as well as a huge generator of revenue for this beautiful, capitalist, fascist state. a state where, as i type this, it's 70 degrees in the middle of winter, and some of those more lenient states (as well as those places that ban our bikes outright) are under 10 feet of snow.
i'm baffled by so many of you who would risk tickets and impoundment just because you think you can outsmart the system. a system which charges a whopping 19 bucks and makes a few minor demands on you to comply.
if you get busted and pull out your ace in the hole and tell the cop, "i don't have an automatic transmission, therefore, you can't give me a ticket for riding a motorized bicycle."
you think he's gonna just scratch his head and say "i'm sorry sir. you're so much smarter than me. i'm gonna let you go free. i just want some donuts..."
no. he's gonna ask you in that tone they reserve for people they don't like, "if it's not a motorized bicycle, then what is it?"
and since you won't have an answer for that, he'll give you a ticket, impound your bike, and maybe even take you to jail if you have a warrant or suspended license.
meanwhile, i'll just ride by and wave, and think, "man, that guys a real rebel on his toy moped. he ain't takin' no **** from the man..."
Clearly you don't respect my view. That's too bad. I respect yours.
I added data, also from a veteran police officer.
I said I'd take my chances. I'm 100% responsible for the result. I said I'd report it. Too bad if you don't agree.
I will answer, "Officer, I have a motorized bike with a manual transmission. Here is the manual clutch. And here is your Sergeant's business card, who happens to agree with me."
I added data, also from a veteran police officer.
I said I'd take my chances. I'm 100% responsible for the result. I said I'd report it. Too bad if you don't agree.
Your assumptions are direspectful and incorrect.
I will answer, "Officer, I have a motorized bike with a manual transmission. Here is the manual clutch. And here is your Sergeant's business card, who happens to agree with me."
Last edited:
according to the motorized bicycle application form, if your bike has a manual transmission, it does not qualify as a "motorized bicycle."
it's here, in Section A: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg230.pdf
section A states: ...Complete Application for Registration (REG 343) to apply for appropriate registration.
here's REG 343:
http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg343.pdf
good luck with that one.
what the form doesn't say, is "if your bike doesn't qualify as a motorized bicycle, congrats! you can do anything you want, whenever you want on your bike! you win!!!"
if i sound condescending, or disrespectful, that's because i was trying to.
and that's because you're being disrespectful to me and all the work i've done to make sure we can all ride legal in california.
you're intentionally mis-reading the facts to try to twist them in your favor.
you're ignoring the advice given, and have already formed your opinion, so you're just wasting our time.
bottom line, as you said, is you're responsible for your own actions.
i'm done with being the advocate for california law around here.
good luck.
it's here, in Section A: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg230.pdf
section A states: ...Complete Application for Registration (REG 343) to apply for appropriate registration.
here's REG 343:
http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg343.pdf
good luck with that one.
what the form doesn't say, is "if your bike doesn't qualify as a motorized bicycle, congrats! you can do anything you want, whenever you want on your bike! you win!!!"
if i sound condescending, or disrespectful, that's because i was trying to.
and that's because you're being disrespectful to me and all the work i've done to make sure we can all ride legal in california.
you're intentionally mis-reading the facts to try to twist them in your favor.
you're ignoring the advice given, and have already formed your opinion, so you're just wasting our time.
bottom line, as you said, is you're responsible for your own actions.
i'm done with being the advocate for california law around here.
good luck.
If it does not have an automatic clutch, it is exempt from registration? That would exempt most motorcycles.
Your logic does not make an unregistered moped “exempt”. It makes it “illegal”.
Carry the printout. You may get away with it since it shows that you at least researched it and came up with your own interpretation. You may just get a warning. I always said that they need to rewrite the code to make it clear. I still find it amusing that people will spend $200 to build a motorized bike but don’t want to send in the $19 to make it legal. I’m guessing that they just want to be a rebel.