Why start with crap? Top Quality DIY for $347

KCvale said:
I only have experience with the Macargi Toch and Pantera frames, I like the Touch's rear coaster brake hub as far as direct drive hubs go as they don't self destruct inside like Cranbooks do, never seen a frame break on one either but a lot of any frame braking or even rear wheel stress fauluer is due to weight and what you ride on.

If you are 250 pounds and haul that big weight on crappy pothole filled roads then well sure you are going to need a lot stronger bike and I build those on Felts and the like, my point again is what works great for me as a builder for my lowest end bikes here in Phoenix for people under 200 pounds.

The bottom line is these builds don't come back for repairs, and I get in far too many Huffy Cranbrooks someone else built that are just crap.
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I think a lot of the problem is the fact people who buy the bottom end builds like Huffy Cranbrooks are less likely to take care of it like someone who ponies up for a better bike. Lowballers seldom maintain the stuff they get cheap.
 
maniac57 said:
I think a lot of the problem is the fact people who buy the bottom end builds like Huffy Cranbrooks are less likely to take care of it like someone who ponies up for a better bike. Lowballers seldom maintain the stuff they get cheap.
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And then there are people like me, who buy what they can afford because they have no other choice, and take care of it the best they can. Dont assume just because someone buys something inexpensive, that they are a "lowballer" and dont care about quality because they want to buy something they dont have to take care of. Not all of us are like that. As far as quality is concerned, some people here are operating under the misconception that it can be defined objectively. In this hobby, as I imagine with many others, quality would best be described as what works best for the person using it. Just because something costs more does not make it higher quality, nor the opposite. I have gathered most of the parts for my bike as inexpensively as I can, yet they are all parts that have stood the test of time and abuse, and all the parts from my current bike except for the ht engine and pipe will be transferred to the Schwinn/Lifan build.
 
bigbutterbean said:
And then there are people like me, who buy what they can afford because they have no other choice, and take care of it the best they can. Dont assume just because someone buys something inexpensive, that they are a "lowballer" and dont care about quality because they want to buy something they dont have to take care of. Not all of us are like that. As far as quality is concerned, some people here are operating under the misconception that it can be defined objectively. In this hobby, as I imagine with many others, quality would best be described as what works best for the person using it. Just because something costs more does not make it higher quality, nor the opposite. I have gathered most of the parts for my bike as inexpensively as I can, yet they are all parts that have stood the test of time and abuse, and all the parts from my current bike except for the ht engine and pipe will be transferred to the Schwinn/Lifan build.
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I agree fully! I am a lowballer because I'm cheap! I manage to keep my stuff alive through dedicated upkeep and judicious modification as budget allows. I ride a NEXT by the way...a bike not know for lasting even when HUMAN powered! LOL! I have well over 15k on the Pig and I am a testament to making do with less. The bottom line is: Buy what makes you happy and don't accept conventional wisdom if you choose not to.Any advice I post here is just that; Advice. Take what you like and ignore the rest. What works for me may not work for others.
newpipe001.jpg
 
KCvale said:
I only have experience with the Macargi Toch and Pantera frames, I like the Touch's rear coaster brake hub as far as direct drive hubs go as they don't self destruct inside like Cranbooks do, never seen a frame break on one either but a lot of any frame braking or even rear wheel stress fauluer is due to weight and what you ride on.

If you are 250 pounds and haul that big weight on crappy pothole filled roads then well sure you are going to need a lot stronger bike and I build those on Felts and the like, my point again is what works great for me as a builder for my lowest end bikes here in Phoenix for people under 200 pounds.

The bottom line is these builds don't come back for repairs, and I get in far too many Huffy Cranbrooks someone else built that are just crap.
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I think your last paragraph said it all. "Huffy Cranbrooks someone else built". The major part of any quality build is THE BUILDER.
fatdaddy.
 
fatdaddy said:
I think your last paragraph said it all. "Huffy Cranbrooks someone else built". The major part of any quality build is THE BUILDER.
fatdaddy.
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Exactly. I always say a bike is only as good as its mechanic. A lot of people may disagree with that, but thats just too bad, because nothing anyone says will change my mind about it. Unless it comes to structural integrity of the frame being poor, one bike is as good as another. Defective parts can be replaced, and knowing what parts to replace and what replacement parts to buy is the mechanic's job. And I got another news flash for the masses: NO BICYCLE is designed to be motorized unless it was custom built or designed for that purpose, as in the case of a grubee frame or something hand built. Any time you buy a factory made bicycle and attempt to install an engine, there are a potential for problems, even with parts that can survive fairly heavy pedaling use may not necessarily handle the force of a motor. And the chances of this are greatly increased with the less experience the builder has, regardless of what bike they choose as a platform for motorization.
 
maniac57 said:
You might want to try some mild steel first. Stainless tubing eats notcher cutters and tools. It's cool but rarely worth the extra trouble unless you want it polished and naked.
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You are talking to a guy who hates rust and hates doing paint work and knows how to weld steel. Last I checked that means mild weld-able stainless tubing or get the specialized equipment and learn how to weld aluminum. I’ve already done some welding on steel bike frames (hack and weld jobs) and all the paint work and the fact I still usually get rust after a few years regardless of how much annoying painful time I put into the paint job DRIVES ME NUTS !!!



On the whole chain-vs.-friction drive debate:

To my mind the only two positives for the friction drive set-up is KISS engineering simplicity with nearly zero complexity, reduced weight, and ease of removability. We are talking “Bumble Bee” or “Commuter Booster” set-up or similar being the ultimate expressions and capitalizations on the strengths of that drive set-up.

The down sides of a friction set-up are loss of efficiency and all weather capabilities. You can run a chain drive with studded snow tires in the dead of winter cutting tracks through a couple inches or more of snow on top of ice. Try that with a friction drive set-up. Not to mention there really isn’t a possibility of more then one drive ratio (although a tapered or stepped drive roller does have some potential as an idea). Where that is a possibility with the more complex chain drive set-ups (shift kit or similar build).



On the whole 2-vs.-4 stroke engine debate (and could there be a whisper of electric in the background noise):

Once again we have a debate of KISS simplicity vs. a more complex but more efficient, advanced, and cleaner technology.

First of all I want to get it out of the way that at least in my mind there is a world of difference between a china girl type engine (either 2 or 4 stroke) that to my mind is cobbled together with a low level of engineering, raw materials, and planning in general but does seem to work and the higher end motors built for commercial/industrial grade equipment. I am talking about the small engines (either 2 or 4 stroke) used in the equipment that professional use to make money and must work on a daily basis and do so reliably. The lower end engines used in residential quality equipment is usually in-between the two or sometimes right down there with the china girl engines or sometimes even worse.

Now, it is true, that my perspective on the china girl engines might have been clouded by my one experience with one of them where I just about took a sledge hammer to the worthless thing in a fit of rage after several wasted days of working with it. And my excellent experience so far with weed-eater type engines specifically the higher priced and thus assumably higher quality ones.

With all that in mind, I personally strongly prefer the 4-stroke engines because:
----- I hate mixing gas/oil and like to fill up straight from the pump.
----- 4-cycle in general tend to be quieter and make a less high pitched less obnoxious noise
----- 4-cycle tends to run cooler.
----- 4-cycle runs cleaner, in more ways then one
----- 2-cycle tends to be harder on power transmission components and wear stuff out faster



Long story short, I am a huge fan of the Staton-Inc gear boxes that bolt up to the weed-eater type motors for chain drive set-ups. I really wish that someone would bring the true, direct, double stage fuel then high pressure air injection technology that already exists and has existed since the late 90’s actually out into the market for that size class of motors which eliminates all the annoyances of and inefficiencies of a carburetor. Emissions are reduced by nearly 80% with sizable improvements in both fuel efficiency and power for the same size engine. Successful prototypes all the way down to 15cc size have been successfully built and tested but they still haven’t brought the technology to the mass market for weed-eater sized engines, so far the smallest engines they are using it in currently is outboard boat engines. The day they make a quality industrial/professional class weed-eater engine and put it out on the market using that technology (and it will almost surely be a 4-cycle) its going on my bike.
 
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dracothered said:
Don't worry fatdaddy they love you as long as you are giving them money...
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I feel like I just found out the love of my life is a h00ker. All she wanted me for was my money. Thats all right, I know MY Lil' Hussy loves me. And she proves it by getting me home safe,
-----EVERY TIME.dance1
fatdaddy.
 
2stroker said:
Haha! Chinagurl luv you for about 3 miles..
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3 miles my A**, Maybe if YOU put it together. Put these,(999,) behind that 3 and you would be closer.
Just messin with ya 2stroker. But even a BGF motor got at least 5 miles in it.
fatdaddy.
 
Well my friends, I got started on this thread because KCvale was talking down the Huffy. I just want to ad something. KC was saying how much better quality the Micargi was than the Huffy and I gotta tell ya, They didn't put any of that quality in the seat. It's GOTTA be the cheapest seat pan I've ever seen, IT'S PLASTIC. Ocho Ninja gave me the seat off his Micargi, and I was all happy and stuff, till one of the spring posts started poking me in my butt. The cheapo plastic broke through and I went from a bass to a tenor.
Anyway, I had an old school METAL seat pan in the shop, so I just recovered the metal one with the Micargi stuff. NOW that Micargi seat has some quality to it.
And OH YEAH, The Huffy seat pan is METAL.
fatdaddy.
 
2stroker said:
I knew that would stir things up a little. You guys are right though its not cool to put down another fellow rider setup. My bad KC. The topic of the post is why start with crap? So thats putting down other kits also. just saying. I just hear of alot more broken chain drives than i do friction..its a bicycle its supposed to be simple and reliable..if im gonna ride a chain drive im gonna get on my honda cr250. But thats just me. Everyone has there ways. But those are nice builds KC! With the right parts they can be reliable! My Bumblebee gets me every where i need to go with out ever breaking down. I have 6,000 miles on it and haven't pedaled home one time. Im sure your kits are just as reliable! Nice Builds!
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That's because there are 10,000,000 more chain driven than there are friction driven bicycles in the world. Kinda makes sense doesn't it?

I hate chains but run them on all of my bikes and have no issues as I know how to build properly. I prefer titanium hollow drive shafts, but that's another story.

dnut
 
fatdaddy said:
They didn't put any of that quality in the seat. It's GOTTA be the cheapest seat pan I've ever seen, IT'S PLASTIC.
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(hehehe) I agree with you there, the tubes are cheap quality too but I learned a long ago that once you drop the wight of a motor on a bike you never pick it up by the seat, always grab the spring under the seat no matter how good the seat is.

But to get back to my topic of 'Top Quality DIY for $347' I am just sharing what I know as fact and my experience building MB's for sale remains the same, these builds go together well and never come back for serious failure which is exactly what you want in your MB build right?

If you shop the holiday sales which is when and why I posted this you can build yourself a solid trouble free bike like this for under $400.

Macargi1200L.jpg


2011 66cc Skyhawk with high temp black painted covers and head, short intake, 18g double insulated direct magneto to CDI wire upgraded wire with epoxied CDI cover cap and Iridium spark plug, and a solid 360° 'muffler clamp' front mount.

Macarigi touch bike with 'shortie' handlebars, coaster brake plus an added C brake on each wheel to a self adjusting right side brake lever, foam grips, and HD tube and liner in the rear wheel.

NOTE: Unlike many budget cruisers the drive sprocket actually goes on as intended and don't end up with just an inner rag joint and the sprocket cupped out right against the spokes.

In my experience the leading cause of do it yourself builders disappointment comes from how well they transfer the power from the motor to the back wheel and how well it takes it, AKA the Drive Train and of course the rear hub.

Macargi1200L.jpg


Other things you can do when you build your own bike is just the little stuff that don't seem important in a rush to 'make it go' but really do pay off after you have some miles on it and your friends look at it.

Paint:
Nothing says 'Kit Build' more than the bracket parts that mount to the frame not being the frames color. The first thing I do when I open a kit destined for a given bike is pull all the brackets out and start coating them with the right color paint so by the time I need them they have several coats and dry.

Tensioner Placement:
One important fact is the only reason there is a tensioner in the drive train is to make it 'easier' to keep you drive chain snug and NOT some needed part in the drive train nor can they correct a problem with the chain itself and even worse prone to failing.

Yet another reason I like this bike base is the chain matches the sprockets perfect with the motor low and I can size the chain, put the tensoiner on the straight meat of the chainstay, and if it ever does fail inwards it will hit the tire or rim and not go into the spokes.

Macargi1200Tensioner.jpg


There are more things I won't go into about picking a bike to start with and really guys, I am not here to bash or promote one bike model or another, I am just sharing my first hand knowledge and for my base bike build this is it, take it or leave it but there is no need to defend your bike brand.

And before you ask no you can't order a bike like this from me as I deal with local people, I am just sharing some tips and advice on how to not just look at how cheap or pretty a kit or bike looks it don't mean anything if both parts don't go together nice or fail.
 
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Cool KC, I'll take that as an apology for callin the Huffy crap. But I don't pick my bike up at all, It's too heavy. The post busted through just sittin on it. And yeah. I'm a big guy.
fatdaddy.
 
I'm spending a little bit more than $350 to build my next bike. American made Schwinn cantilever frame, Suzuki K10 hydraulic triple trees, 98cc flathead Lifan 4 stroke engine, American made agk transmission and MaxTorque clutch, Howard sprocket adapter. Now that's REAL quality, reliability and diy. Nothing against 2 strokes, but true dependability and long-term reliability is not typical to them.
 
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