Well, what's crap about it? They're all essentially pieces of crap. I like my piece of crap Raw china girl, and others like their piece of crap Grubee china girl.
GasBike doesn't have a good warranty, but the product they sell is Grubee motors - they're just retailers, and their lacking warranty just protects their investment.
If you want something that's going to last, go with a 4 stroke.
GasBike doesn't have a good warranty, but the product they sell is Grubee motors - they're just retailers, and their lacking warranty just protects their investment.
If you want something that's going to last, go with a 4 stroke.
I think that is like asking who puts the best shine on a turd. Over time there are changes such as slant heads on many and an integrated CDI on the Super Rat GT5. Changes, not necessarily improvements.
It's true it is difficult to judge quality just by looking, and some may be better than others, but IMO the differences are very minor. It's still a disposable pot metal China Girl vibration machine. Pick a supplier that supports the product, and cross your fingers.
Good mounting (vibration control) is the key to making these things work. I've tried solid mounting and after a few minutes ride your hands go numb, and I have cracked a sturdy steel frame on a Diamondback mountain bike. That was the last straw for me and I've changed to rear friction mount with higher quality engine Mitsubishi TLE-43. Other than the creativemechanic custom mount, I haven't seen any other commercial center mounting systems designed to isolate the vibration from the bike. Some will tell you that solid mounting is best, but I'd rather attenuate the vibs in a block of rubber thank you very much. An engineered vibe control China Girl mounting system would sell like hot cakes if it was universal and priced right. I'd buy one.
It's true it is difficult to judge quality just by looking, and some may be better than others, but IMO the differences are very minor. It's still a disposable pot metal China Girl vibration machine. Pick a supplier that supports the product, and cross your fingers.
Good mounting (vibration control) is the key to making these things work. I've tried solid mounting and after a few minutes ride your hands go numb, and I have cracked a sturdy steel frame on a Diamondback mountain bike. That was the last straw for me and I've changed to rear friction mount with higher quality engine Mitsubishi TLE-43. Other than the creativemechanic custom mount, I haven't seen any other commercial center mounting systems designed to isolate the vibration from the bike. Some will tell you that solid mounting is best, but I'd rather attenuate the vibs in a block of rubber thank you very much. An engineered vibe control China Girl mounting system would sell like hot cakes if it was universal and priced right. I'd buy one.
As a noob to m-bikes I have to say that all the negative feedback on the cheap chinese 2 stroke engines has me more than a bit worried. Although $150 may be cheap to some, it's still more than I'm ready to throw away on something that doesn't work. It seems that my only options are to:
a. Buy from the cheapest source and assume the risk myself.
b. Pay a bit more and buy from a "reputable" source and hope whatever problems I may run into appear during the warranty period -and- that the source will honor their warranty.
c. Spend a heck of a lot more for a better motor (plus the cost of whatever custom mounts, etc).
@kallsop - Although I've not built a motorized bike yet, I have many years experience with lots of engines, from a 3 cylinder Suzuki Jeep to a massive marine diesel and I don't recall ever seeing a single engine that wasn't mounted with some sort of vibration isolation. The whole idea of directly mounting an engine to a lightweight frame goes against everything I've ever been taught. But the problem is far too complex to be solved by simply adding a bit of rubber here and there. I too would love to see a mounting system that included a well designed vibration isolation system.
a. Buy from the cheapest source and assume the risk myself.
b. Pay a bit more and buy from a "reputable" source and hope whatever problems I may run into appear during the warranty period -and- that the source will honor their warranty.
c. Spend a heck of a lot more for a better motor (plus the cost of whatever custom mounts, etc).
@kallsop - Although I've not built a motorized bike yet, I have many years experience with lots of engines, from a 3 cylinder Suzuki Jeep to a massive marine diesel and I don't recall ever seeing a single engine that wasn't mounted with some sort of vibration isolation. The whole idea of directly mounting an engine to a lightweight frame goes against everything I've ever been taught. But the problem is far too complex to be solved by simply adding a bit of rubber here and there. I too would love to see a mounting system that included a well designed vibration isolation system.
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the problem with rubber mounting is the style of mounting theses kit use. it's just a clamp so it squeezea the rubber, the studs go loose, you tighten again and again and soon the studs are striped or the case is broke. better to solid mount and put up with the vibration. or fill your bars and frame with expanding foam and try to absorb and dampen some of it.
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Agree 100%, but you'll find threads here with gung ho attitudes for direct mount. As you say, it needs an engineered solution, not random bits of rubber here or there. Given that the China Girl is so standard dimensioned, a universal solution should be possible. I'm thinking along the lines of two separate adapters, one for the rear mount and one for the front mount. I won't ever use a direct mount China Girl again. If you have ever used a weedwacker that vibrates like crazy, and your hands buzz afterwards, that's like riding a China Girl direct mount bike. Even if you get some super cushioned grips for your hands, you can imagine what is happening to the bike components.
the only builds i've done that vibrated that badly used the GT-5 grubee engine. i've never had the jet or raw motors vibrate to the point of discomfort.
an insulated mount would need to be a heavy duty type made like an exhaust isolater mount, a hard rubber with a large stud molded into it. a part you could probably get at napa.
an insulated mount would need to be a heavy duty type made like an exhaust isolater mount, a hard rubber with a large stud molded into it. a part you could probably get at napa.
No motorized bike is the same. That's all there is to it, we can talk for days on the difference in MPG, MPH, vibration, parts breaking, what's tuned how, etc etc.
The motors are all different, the bikes we put them on are all different, and we all ride them a little bit differently. It's like DNA, a fingerprint, or a bioelectric frequency signature. No one build is alike, just like no person is alike.
That being said - definitely take heed in what you read about these kits! They all /can/ happen to yours, and the great thing about these forums is that you can learn what to and what not to do - for prevention of problems, and what to and what not to do - for after a problem has happened.
But, don't let that deter you from getting one - it's not as bad as you think. You're reading here about problems that happen worldwide - more often than not, most people are out there riding and enjoying their bikes - not taking ice picks to them. The thing about forums is most people join to get a problem solved and they never return, so that is going to mess with what we view as the standard in threads around here.
Like I say very very often - don't worry about what kit you get. Just be sure you get your kit from a retailer who will stand behind the product, and if there is something defective about it - ensure they will take care of you after the sale. Call them up and ask in person first, it's not gonna hurt. Have them explain what could void the warranty, what can you do to make sure that you don't void your warranty, what are some tell tale signs that a motor is defective while within warranty state - etc etc.
The motors are all different, the bikes we put them on are all different, and we all ride them a little bit differently. It's like DNA, a fingerprint, or a bioelectric frequency signature. No one build is alike, just like no person is alike.
That being said - definitely take heed in what you read about these kits! They all /can/ happen to yours, and the great thing about these forums is that you can learn what to and what not to do - for prevention of problems, and what to and what not to do - for after a problem has happened.
But, don't let that deter you from getting one - it's not as bad as you think. You're reading here about problems that happen worldwide - more often than not, most people are out there riding and enjoying their bikes - not taking ice picks to them. The thing about forums is most people join to get a problem solved and they never return, so that is going to mess with what we view as the standard in threads around here.
Like I say very very often - don't worry about what kit you get. Just be sure you get your kit from a retailer who will stand behind the product, and if there is something defective about it - ensure they will take care of you after the sale. Call them up and ask in person first, it's not gonna hurt. Have them explain what could void the warranty, what can you do to make sure that you don't void your warranty, what are some tell tale signs that a motor is defective while within warranty state - etc etc.
I've been looking and have yet to find a retailer who had both a good warranty and product in stock. One retailer whose return / warranty policy I read was only valid until you ran the engine. How on earth would I know if the engine worked unless I ran it first?
I think a big part of the problem is that there isn't any -manufacturer's- warranty behind the product. In other industries and markets, it's the manufacturer's warranty that both the consumer and retailer rely on.
So I don't seem biased, here's a list of sponsor warranties. Some have additional info relating to what doesn't qualify, such as fuel line, etc, and additional info relating to what kind of stuff you can do to your motor to have it voided.
PirateCycles1.com:
Due to the nature of our business We do not exept returns. However, We will Guarantee that our products be free from factory defects or they will be replaced as long as they are unused. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.
GasBike.net/KingsMotorBikes.com (owned and operated by Nationwide Access, LLC.) allows returns on products that are in new condition and are returned in the original packaging. "New condition" means that the product has not been installed, fueled, started or ridden. All returns must be called in or emailed in advance. Please call 877-354-3733 for a Return Merchandise Authorization number (RMA) for shipping the product(s) back to us. Return shipping and insurance charges are the responsibility of the customer. Any merchandise returned without a RMA or any merchandise returned freight collect is subject to being refused.
HelioBikes.com
Please contact us directly before shipping any goods back to us for return and/or refund. We have a 20% restocking fee on all returned orders. The customer is responsible for all shipping costs on returned items unless covered under warranty. We will not accept any used items for return or refund unless it is a manufactures' defect or you have spoken with us directly. We do not accept any returns on our gas powered motorized bicycles or bicycle engine kits once the engine has been fired because we cannot judge the amount of wear that has been put onto the motor.
RockSolidEngines.com.au
Q- Do I get any warranty with this engine kit?
A- Absolutely! There's a 30 day warranty on parts and assembly.
BikeBerry.com
What is the warranty coverage on your bicycles?
All of our bicycles come with a 60 day warranty on frame failure and 30 days warranty on parts against any manufacture defects. The manufacture will replace any defective parts within the warranty period. Damages caused by misuse, improper maintenance or neglect are not covered by the manufactures warranty.
ThatsDax.com
DAX FRICTION DRIVE KIT ! 1 Hour Install. Works Wet or dry.
1 year Warranty.
RawMotors.com
·What is the warranty for our engine kits?
All Raw motors that have a Raw Motor plate on the engine carry a 6 months warranty.
Zone8Cycles.com
WARRANTY:
All of our Bicycles are sold with a limited 30 days manufacturer warranty with picture damage sent to us. Our Bicycle Engine Kits has a damage or missing when received warranty. You have 48 hours to notify us for damages or missing parts after 48 hours we will assume you are satisfied with product(s).We're giving you a full 30 days warranty on our regular engines and 6 months warranty on our RAW engines. However, this will not cover engine seizure if the correct ratio of oil and petrol is not used. We guarantee that all of our products are brand new and in the original manufacturer's crate or box free from defects. The warranty covers only factory defects. Any outside repair labor charges, down time or shipping charges are not covered under warranty. We do not cover misuse or broken parts caused by the user.
PistonBikes.com
Warranty Disclaimer
This site and the materials and products on this site are provided "as is" and without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied. To the fullest extent permissible pursuant to applicable law, www.PistonBikes.com disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including, but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement. www.PistonBikes.com does not represent or warrant that the functions contained in the site will be uninterrupted or error-free, that the defects will be corrected, or that this site or the server that makes the site available are free of viruses or other harmful components. www.PistonBikes.com does not make any warrantees or representations regarding the use of the materials in this site in terms of their correctness, accuracy, adequacy, usefulness, timeliness, reliability or otherwise. Some states do not permit limitations or exclusions on warranties, so the above limitations may not apply to you.
PirateCycles1.com:
Due to the nature of our business We do not exept returns. However, We will Guarantee that our products be free from factory defects or they will be replaced as long as they are unused. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.
GasBike.net/KingsMotorBikes.com (owned and operated by Nationwide Access, LLC.) allows returns on products that are in new condition and are returned in the original packaging. "New condition" means that the product has not been installed, fueled, started or ridden. All returns must be called in or emailed in advance. Please call 877-354-3733 for a Return Merchandise Authorization number (RMA) for shipping the product(s) back to us. Return shipping and insurance charges are the responsibility of the customer. Any merchandise returned without a RMA or any merchandise returned freight collect is subject to being refused.
HelioBikes.com
Please contact us directly before shipping any goods back to us for return and/or refund. We have a 20% restocking fee on all returned orders. The customer is responsible for all shipping costs on returned items unless covered under warranty. We will not accept any used items for return or refund unless it is a manufactures' defect or you have spoken with us directly. We do not accept any returns on our gas powered motorized bicycles or bicycle engine kits once the engine has been fired because we cannot judge the amount of wear that has been put onto the motor.
RockSolidEngines.com.au
Q- Do I get any warranty with this engine kit?
A- Absolutely! There's a 30 day warranty on parts and assembly.
BikeBerry.com
What is the warranty coverage on your bicycles?
All of our bicycles come with a 60 day warranty on frame failure and 30 days warranty on parts against any manufacture defects. The manufacture will replace any defective parts within the warranty period. Damages caused by misuse, improper maintenance or neglect are not covered by the manufactures warranty.
ThatsDax.com
DAX FRICTION DRIVE KIT ! 1 Hour Install. Works Wet or dry.
1 year Warranty.
RawMotors.com
·What is the warranty for our engine kits?
All Raw motors that have a Raw Motor plate on the engine carry a 6 months warranty.
Zone8Cycles.com
WARRANTY:
All of our Bicycles are sold with a limited 30 days manufacturer warranty with picture damage sent to us. Our Bicycle Engine Kits has a damage or missing when received warranty. You have 48 hours to notify us for damages or missing parts after 48 hours we will assume you are satisfied with product(s).We're giving you a full 30 days warranty on our regular engines and 6 months warranty on our RAW engines. However, this will not cover engine seizure if the correct ratio of oil and petrol is not used. We guarantee that all of our products are brand new and in the original manufacturer's crate or box free from defects. The warranty covers only factory defects. Any outside repair labor charges, down time or shipping charges are not covered under warranty. We do not cover misuse or broken parts caused by the user.
PistonBikes.com
Warranty Disclaimer
This site and the materials and products on this site are provided "as is" and without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied. To the fullest extent permissible pursuant to applicable law, www.PistonBikes.com disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including, but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement. www.PistonBikes.com does not represent or warrant that the functions contained in the site will be uninterrupted or error-free, that the defects will be corrected, or that this site or the server that makes the site available are free of viruses or other harmful components. www.PistonBikes.com does not make any warrantees or representations regarding the use of the materials in this site in terms of their correctness, accuracy, adequacy, usefulness, timeliness, reliability or otherwise. Some states do not permit limitations or exclusions on warranties, so the above limitations may not apply to you.
Thanks DuctTapedGoat. "LiveFastMotors.com" also sells kits and here is their policy:
8. QUESTION: Can I return my motor kit if I don't like it?
ANSWER: No. Our profit margin is so low that we cannot accept returns. Sales are final.
9. QUESTION: Do you offer any quarantees?
ANSWER: Yes. For 30 days we will repair or replace items defective from the factory. Buyer pays only for shipping.
8. QUESTION: Can I return my motor kit if I don't like it?
ANSWER: No. Our profit margin is so low that we cannot accept returns. Sales are final.
9. QUESTION: Do you offer any quarantees?
ANSWER: Yes. For 30 days we will repair or replace items defective from the factory. Buyer pays only for shipping.
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