WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

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FFV8

New Member
Oct 29, 2013
551
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Spring Valley NV
Scott @ Silver State has some nice 21" DOT wheels with brakes in stock, I picked up a pair for a project:





Mounted a set of Avon Speedmaster 3.00 x 21 tires. Should have a nice ride.

Would make a good wheel on a velocar with an 80/90-21 tire mounted. Good sized brake, 9 gauge spokes, aluminum rim.

.
 

curtisfox

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2008
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minesota
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello Curt,[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I will try to find some photos of that modification - sound quite good idea... For any reconstruction or DIY building of wheel for velocar, good starting point is to make, or to buy - proper hubs, with good axle and adequate bearings...[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]
I still think about using my MTB 26” wheels with some modifications if necessary: to make them stronger and more resistant to side forces (anti-twisting reinforcements). Maybe to make additional flanges that will add new support to rims (by spokes)? Maybe to add new rim, that could be used for belt-transmission (or outside belt-brake) – with reinforcements to regular rim and connection to original or additional and bigger flanges... Maybe to install plywood-disk, as one Russian guy did... Still, just winter-thinking...[/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Ciao, Zoran[/FONT]
Yes Zoran i think the second rim like that would add strength.The first 2 pictures ..........Curt
 

moto-klasika

Member
Jan 12, 2013
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Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
.. if we could have that, such discussion should be finished!
Great wheels indeed. If somebody wanted veteran car look, then for front wheels could use moped's 18" wheels, as I could buy in Belgrade. Not an easy job to bring four of them here to Bern!
Maybe all that should be to heavy for pedal-powered quadricycle with small electric-motor or gasoline engine (as assistance)..
But, I will like to have them! (easier to change plans than to make own wheels for old plans)
Thank you,
Zoran
P.S.: Attached are pictures with wheels of moped TOMOS.
 

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moto-klasika

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Jan 12, 2013
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... which is diemension of axle?
TOMOS has 12 mm axle (less then 1/2") which isn't enugh for supporting them just on one side, but demends support on both sides as on moped.

Where I could find more details and prices for your wheels?

Zoran
 

curtisfox

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2008
6,077
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minesota
FFV8 Yes they are nice and would make a good wheel for volocar.

Also was looking at west coast chopper wheels today and they have a really wide hub that would make a good hub for the taller wheels...............Curt
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
113
northeastern Minnesota
Scott @ Silver State has some nice 21" DOT wheels with brakes in stock, I picked up a pair for a project:





Mounted a set of Avon Speedmaster 3.00 x 21 tires. Should have a nice ride.

Would make a good wheel on a velocar with an 80/90-21 tire mounted. Good sized brake, 9 gauge spokes, aluminum rim.



.
Those look like really nice wheels... and 9 gauge spokes... wow!
SB
 

Ludwig II

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,071
783
113
UK
The Tomos wheels have bearings, what about removing the one that goes on the inside face of the wheel and replacing with one that has a bigger internal diameter? The axle then only needs to be a stepped design, not a taper.
 

moto-klasika

Member
Jan 12, 2013
584
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Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
The Tomos wheels have bearings, what about removing the one that goes on the inside face of the wheel and replacing with one that has a bigger internal diameter? The axle then only needs to be a stepped design, not a taper.
----------------------------------------
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello Ludwig,[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]That is one of the solutions, without too much machine-tooling work on hubs. Just to find exact outside diameter of original ball-bearings. In Serbia, I found company who sells good quality (mostly SKF and other German), with huge inside diameter, I think more 20-25 mm. Maybe to change both bearings and made new axle according to their inside diameter dimension, without step? I am not sure if such bearings are strong enough: must have smaller balls and thinner rings?[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Could needle bearings be useful? Maybe not resistant on side-forces...[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Ciao, [/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Zoran[/FONT]
 

Ludwig II

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,071
783
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UK
Rollers, perhaps tapered rollers. We had to open out a wheel once at a race meeting, the only bearing we could find to replace one that collapsed was a bigger o.d. So we took a drill with a grinding bit in it, put the wheel on a spindle taped to a chair, and kept turning the wheel and grinding it out until the bearing fitted. It was a long night.
 

chainmaker

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2010
2,634
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48
Ma USA
Scott @ Silver State has some nice 21" DOT wheels with brakes in stock, I picked up a pair for a project:





Mounted a set of Avon Speedmaster 3.00 x 21 tires. Should have a nice ride.

Would make a good wheel on a velocar with an 80/90-21 tire mounted. Good sized brake, 9 gauge spokes, aluminum rim.

.

It's too bad that their website doesn't list too much, or have much info on what they do have listed. :(
 

FFV8

New Member
Oct 29, 2013
551
16
0
Spring Valley NV
Chainmaker

He sells some parts that are not on the website. The bicycle wheels I have mentioned before, and these motorcycle wheels are parts he uses to make his own product. Probably never going to be a website item.

He charged me $150 each for these wheels, and if you want some, you should call him. He told me he is still selling the heavy duty bicycle wheels for $100 / set shipped.
 

Ludwig II

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,071
783
113
UK
Do you know any specialist builders of old bicycles? Doug Pinkerton is handling the cycle side of my build, and he's the sort of individual who knows everyone in the vintage/veteran/unique bicycle line.
 

moto-klasika

Member
Jan 12, 2013
584
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Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello to all![/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]For my light motorised quadricycle (possibly built), beside DIY attempts (maybe later aboput that), I consider all variants of [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]ALTERNATIVE WHEELS[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]. (mass produced).
[/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I will listed here some of them that I found in a few last years, with a few words that could be interesting and useful for other memebrs.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]A) In America[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]:[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]A.1)[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] Strong garden-kart wheels - made by [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Signal Mountain Products[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive], many dimensions, with solid steel spokes, axles of 3/4", pneumatic and semi-pneumatic (solid rubber); never had for somebody’s direct experience on light motorised vehicle; web-site: [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.signalmountainproducts.com/home.php?cat=251[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]A.2)[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] Strong garden-kart wheels - sell by [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Northern[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Tools[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive], probably most of them Chinese built; people said that wire-spokes are just pressed in rims, no nipples – so, often use to weld them to rims; builders of horseless carriage replicas used them in the beginning, but were not quite satisfied: there were a few accidents with those wheels – crashes at corners, especially under high speed or sudden braking; web-site:[/FONT]


http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_tires-wheels+spoked-wheels+pneumatic-spoked-wheels




[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]A.3)[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Worksman[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] heavy-duty bicycle-wheels – American made; most builders of horseless carriage replicas now use them as quite appropriate for their vehicles; quite expensive, but maybe the best – except strong moped's or motorcycle's wheels; web-site:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]www.worksman.com[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]As it is difficult to search acroos thier web-site and find wheels for sale, it is possible to contact Mr. Al Venditi who is very useful about wheels for motorised vehicles:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][email protected][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] [/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]From them, I got offer, prices without transport: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7724A 24" Front drum wheel (not driven) $189 (no tire)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]77RA 26" Rear drum wheel (threaded for freewheel) $147 (no tire)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]4129B Threaded freewheel sprocket, 20 tooth $15.70 (Other sizes available.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]F719 Short brake cable with attachments for drum brake $11.24 1150mm (front)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]F719-SBST Long brake cable with attachments for drum brake $11.24 1410mm (rear)[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]A.4)[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] Heavy duty bicycle's wheels, made or just sell by [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Custom Motored Bicycles[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive](connected with Worksman, but probably more in cooperation with some Chinese company); looking quite well, all sizes, drum-brakes, disk-brakes, band-brakes, than classic looking tires in colors - and many other parts for motorized bicycles/tricycles:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://custommotoredbicycles.com/home_custom_motored_bicycles[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]B) In Europe:[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] [/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]B.1) [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] Products of [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Classic Cycle Vertriebs GmbH[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive], from Germany; [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]between more products - wheels and rims of 26", wide up to 100 mm and proper tires for them wide 3.45" ; couldn't be sure if they are strong enough for side-forces; expensive; web-site: [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://classic-cycle.de/en/Ready-Spanned-Wheels-Rims-Parts/[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]C) Light motorcycle wheels [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]– mostly HONDA 17" from Super Cub, Passport, or Trail 90 – mostly used for Cycle-Karts, scalled-down replicas of vintage racers, with power of 6.6 to 10 HP and speeds up to 40 MPH (60 km/hour) and weight less then 250 pounds ( 113 kg); hubs are mostly modified a lot;[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Conclusion:[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive] Some of the mentioned wheels could be used off-the-shelf, and some should be modified (axles, hubs, bearings...). For heavier or faster vehicles: stronger moped's or light motrocycle's wheels. For horsless carriage replicas, that are heavier but slower and often used on parades – Worksman seems the best. For velocars – some of them listed here or somehting else. More inforamtion shall be welcomed, with web-links, e-mail addresses, prices, phtos, sektches, performances and specifications...[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Ciao, [/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Zoran[/FONT]
 

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plycar

Member
Aug 11, 2014
60
6
6
Thuringia, Germany
Hello Zoran

My 50 cents

Front wheels:
The trike front wheels I'm recently using on my Velocar have a 12mm Axles of high grade steel. (12.9).
Never had problems with sideward stability, even with 24" wheels.
The strength of the wheel/kingpin connection depends also on the outer diameter of the washers, which are stacked between the backing plate of the drum and the kingpin mount.
If the axle bolt is properly tightened, the bolt itself is only stressed with tension, no bending forces at all.
The backing plate, the washer and the kingpin mount are forming a virtual tube around the bolt and taking up the pressure.


Rear wheels:
I would use BMX wheels, but mostly no disc mount on these wheels, so I have a brake problem.
I'm toying with the idea of using Tuff Wheels, maybe a version with disc mount is now available.
A follower of Paul Elkins used such wheels.
Klick for a YT-video of his car

Cassette wheels are a bad choice, because of the asymmetrical spokes and the spoke flanges very close together
Although I used such wheels on my Velocar for two years without problems (always cornered very carefully) I won't recommend such wheels.

On the other hand, look at all these old Mochets, with seemingly normal wheels, sometimes 26".
Seems to be rigid enough.

Another solution would be self constructed hubs.
With 3D-CAD you can design your own hubs.
A lot of businesses around here with CNC milling machines, who are able to produce such things from a data file.
You even don't have to leave the house for this.
Send the file via E-mail and wait until the mail man delivers the parcel is all you have to do.
OK, I don't talk about the money issue ;)

Kai
 
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curtisfox

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2008
6,077
4,041
113
minesota
Northern Tool wheels do work but i think the spokes are fixed and non ajustable. I have also seen were a guy took and made his own spokes out of tubing sorta like model T Ford wheels. They seem to be holding up good.............Curt
 

moto-klasika

Member
Jan 12, 2013
584
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Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Doug doesn't have a website, you have to know about him by word of mouth, but this bloke can do the same sort of things:

http://colwoodwheelworks.co.uk/
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello Ludwig,[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I visited his web-site and was delighted by his work! Prices for services didn't show too high (compared to anything here in Swiss), but finished wheels should be too expensive for me, I am afraid. Components are expensive when count everything plus his work plus transport...
On one similar forum, one guy said something as: "
People like to ask always the same questions, waiting to get answer that they like, and again, and again - but, there isn't such answer for them"...
I am afraid to become such person! Cheap, simple and strong wheels for velocar or even my quadricycle - hard to find and not-so-easy to build (if used off-the shelf and good components).
[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Ciao, Zoran[/FONT]
 

moto-klasika

Member
Jan 12, 2013
584
18
18
Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Northern Tool wheels do work but i think the spokes are fixed and non ajustable. I have also seen were a guy took and made his own spokes out of tubing sorta like model T Ford wheels. They seem to be holding up good.............Curt
-----------------
Curt,
You are quite right! With some modificaitons, they could be more practical. As I said, people used them for replicas of veteran cars, and if drive them slow and carefully, there wasn't too much risk. But "devil never sleep" as our grandmothers used to say... Aynway - better then ordinary bicycle's wheels?
Ciao, Zoran
P.S.: But, they are really cheap - in USA!