Why are you doing HIS job for him, Tell him to get his ass over to the factory and look at these things himself.
What's Inside Your Grubee GT5?
- Thread starter bairdco
- Start date
You assume too much. I do not want to publicize the statements he has made to me in private emails, however, I can assure you he is doing that. Information about kit dates etc that were delivered with issues is his/our best ammunition to identify and correct these problems and back up his personal complaints, which may or may not have been dismissed by the plant operators... Specifically the issue where debris is found in the motors.
If I am doing anyone's job here it would be that of the distributors who should report issues with his product to him. Frankly, what does it matter if I have decided to spend a few moments of MY time to help improve the quality of motors we have to purchase? The reason why I am doing it is because Don as been willing to listen to me and easy to get ahold of, and quick to reply to me...
I am happy to do what I can to try and help mb riders get better motors and kits to choose from. Specially when it takes such little effort....
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Thank you for all that you do, nightcruiser!
I am sure that the MB'ing community will appreciate your volunteer efforts.
I am sure that the MB'ing community will appreciate your volunteer efforts.
^^True that!! After the experience I just had with my first HT, I am all for improving QC. Thanks for your efforts!
Yup bairdco my branb new gt5 is exactly the same .
i,m pretty sure the chips in the cylinder ( is not a cleanliness problem though )
the holes on the jug and on the head are not deburred at all , and when they put it together , the threads of the bolts work like a file , and knock all the burrs off ( right into the cylinder ) .
inside of my firing chamber was the same ( i could wipe crud loose with my finger )
metal dust / sandblaster grit ?
the fins were disgusting ... absolutely no deburring or smoothing out the casting flash whatsoever . ( i can,t believe they put that on the motor as a finished part )
i posted some befor and afters in ( what you do on you... )
someone commented ( nice job ) ... thanks by the way .. BUT .. It kinda makes me angry at the same time . Nobody should need to say ( nice job on the fins )
I'm NOT free labour for the Ying Yang Ding Dong company ..
THATS THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO LOOK WHEN YOU TAKE IT OUT OF THE BOX !!! URRRGGG
i,m pretty sure the chips in the cylinder ( is not a cleanliness problem though )
the holes on the jug and on the head are not deburred at all , and when they put it together , the threads of the bolts work like a file , and knock all the burrs off ( right into the cylinder ) .
inside of my firing chamber was the same ( i could wipe crud loose with my finger )
metal dust / sandblaster grit ?
the fins were disgusting ... absolutely no deburring or smoothing out the casting flash whatsoever . ( i can,t believe they put that on the motor as a finished part )
i posted some befor and afters in ( what you do on you... )
someone commented ( nice job ) ... thanks by the way .. BUT .. It kinda makes me angry at the same time . Nobody should need to say ( nice job on the fins )
I'm NOT free labour for the Ying Yang Ding Dong company ..
THATS THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO LOOK WHEN YOU TAKE IT OUT OF THE BOX !!! URRRGGG
I agree with you, diceman2004, but if the factory has to pay Ying and Ding to file the fins to perfection like you did, that would raise the price of the cheapest kit out there.
As we all know all to well, there are many reasons why they are soooo cheap.......
Sloppy, floppy fins are just one example.
As we all know all to well, there are many reasons why they are soooo cheap.......
Sloppy, floppy fins are just one example.
hate to say this but the bare motor 66cc anglehead also i got to replace the blown up gt5 from BFG makes the gt5 look like a flaming pos will post pic when batts for camera charge
Oh .. just an added note , it took me that long because all i had was a single cut smooth file . If i had a courser file i probable would have got in done in 15 minutes .
belt sander .. under a minute .
Ibedayank : ya get them up .. i wanna see ( i,m really not impressed with the gt5 i got )
I have .. or lets say had .. many gas powered lawn and garden tools .
look at the weed eater , chainsaw , lawn mower , snowblower , motors .. 1/2 the size and twice as intricate ( and they look perfect ) nice finish .. not sandblasted with barney rubble , clean , and no loose or stripped screws . And i,m not talking top of the line ( just average affordable stuff ) ... I just don,t get it ... like my whole motor looks nasty ( factory seconds ? )
Open the box .. do everything yourself .
They should chang the lable on the box to KINDERSUPRISE
belt sander .. under a minute .
Ibedayank : ya get them up .. i wanna see ( i,m really not impressed with the gt5 i got )
I have .. or lets say had .. many gas powered lawn and garden tools .
look at the weed eater , chainsaw , lawn mower , snowblower , motors .. 1/2 the size and twice as intricate ( and they look perfect ) nice finish .. not sandblasted with barney rubble , clean , and no loose or stripped screws . And i,m not talking top of the line ( just average affordable stuff ) ... I just don,t get it ... like my whole motor looks nasty ( factory seconds ? )
Open the box .. do everything yourself .
They should chang the lable on the box to KINDERSUPRISE
I have not had any problems with my GT5, just routine maintenance and lots of mods. D.B.R. GT-5 I have over 4000 miles now. The china-man that built my engine must have liked his job, lol.
Someone needs to get one the ball and make an American made version of these motors so these issues can stop.
Someone needs to get one the ball and make an American made version of these motors so these issues can stop.
Haaa .. just finished matching up my cylinder fins to the head ( then i painted them black like that ) except I didn't miss a bunch of spots . Gonna let it dry over night and sand the paint off the edges once its dry .
hard to tell , but looks like they at least sanded the slag off the edges of yours .
hard to tell , but looks like they at least sanded the slag off the edges of yours .
dice the inside of the block was really smooth unlike the gt5 that looks like the sand was just brushed off
bairdco (and everyone else...)
I have some good news....
I have forwarded all of your comments to Grubee (including the suggestion that the Yaun Dong factory move over a fault line or volcano! LOL) and he has gotten back to me about it already. Here is a list of improvements that are being made or made already in the Grubee motors that should take care of some of the issues you raised.....
For clarity I will paraphrase your statements first and then follow up with what is being done about it, this might get a little long so I will use red to highlight what's being done to correct the issues.
the headstuds are never bottomed out... and crappy acorn nuts...
This problem was corrected 3 months ago. We no longer use chrome acorn nuts on head bolts. We went back to using regular hex nuts and washers like we did years ago. "Pretty" was not as good as "Practical".
the fins on the jugs are horrible...the left over casting flash makes a sharp, ugly edge on them...
We are in the process of changing to a new Cylinder Casting supplier who has better quality castings. I have noticed this problem as well.
the inside edges of the ports are always rough and need to be cleaned up before chroming...
The Cylinder Casting supplier had problems with chroming the cylinder. Chrome lining would flake off. His outside source was closed down and his new source did not do well. We think the New Cylinder supplier will not have this flake off problem. A watchful eye is on this issue. . . Complaint is justified: If enough customer pressure is placed on the Importer to order engines with port polishing done before plating with an extra cost charge we can get that done. Money can fix.
the CNS carbs......
There is a lot not known in the field about why we have to use this carb. EPA will not let us use the smaller NT carb like we used prior to 2010. The factory that makes the CNS Carb with the Sq. Red AC changed ownership and quality went to ****. In that light we will go back to using the old original CNS Carb from a better factory source along with the long Z tube with paper cone AC. Our 2012 EPA testing for the SuperRat will most likely have a better carb design if we can get it done. I do not like the canter leaver effect of hanging the CNS carb out on a long Z tube but EPA rules and common sense does not compute with bureaucrats. As of this Q4 2011 we now have to cap off the air fuel idle adjustment screw per EPA so you can no longer adjust out that feature. I see others still bringing in engines with the old style NT carb and we do not know how they can get them past EPA unless they lied on the test report? If some one knows how please tell me, We know the CNS is being tossed in the dust bin and the old style NT replacing it, but try to get EPA bureaucrats to understand that.
matching the ports for the intake and exhaust flanges would be nice...
We have a new 66cc one piece head & cylinder coming on line in 2012 with 40mm wide intake stud spacing and 50mm wide exhaust stud spacing. Old style is 30 & 40mm.
get rid of the acorn nuts on everything, for that matter....
Acorn nuts are now for squirrels; Color them gone
head not being milled properly so there was a gap between the head and the jug at the headstuds...
have not noticed this but will check it out. Some Pictures would help (if you post a pic I will make sure Grube gets it)
and on the GT5-A superhawk, the heads need to be twice the thickness. every single one of them has blown headgaskets.....
Have never heard this complaint before? If we had head gaskets all blowing in one day our WD's would be squawking warranty by now? One needs to check the head bolt torque on all these engines before starting. The new one piece integral head and cylinder coming out next year will take care of this. (I must say that I have read enough about this issue, so not sure if the feedback is not reaching over seas or what, the one piece head seems to be a way to remedy this issue)
I appreciate you (bairdco) taking the time to provide all this feedback, hope some of what is said above makes it worth your effort. I'm glad to hear of all this personally and look forward to seeing some of these changes show up on the kits that are delivered to mb riders... I noticed the pictures of the new SkyHawk kits that just came in show the new (old) CNS carb with the aftermarket style air filter, so that's a step in the right direction.....
Again, I am not working for Grubee, or any kit supplier, or anyone for that matter. I just see how a little effort on my part might be able to clear up some of these issues we are chatting about here all the time anyway, and figure why just chat with each other about it, why not pass the information on and try to improve the situation....
If anyone wants to comment or add to the list of issues that should be addressed on the Grubee kits, or post about a failure or QC control issue please add to this thread and I will see to it Grube is made aware...
I have some good news....
I have forwarded all of your comments to Grubee (including the suggestion that the Yaun Dong factory move over a fault line or volcano! LOL) and he has gotten back to me about it already. Here is a list of improvements that are being made or made already in the Grubee motors that should take care of some of the issues you raised.....
For clarity I will paraphrase your statements first and then follow up with what is being done about it, this might get a little long so I will use red to highlight what's being done to correct the issues.
the headstuds are never bottomed out... and crappy acorn nuts...
This problem was corrected 3 months ago. We no longer use chrome acorn nuts on head bolts. We went back to using regular hex nuts and washers like we did years ago. "Pretty" was not as good as "Practical".
the fins on the jugs are horrible...the left over casting flash makes a sharp, ugly edge on them...
We are in the process of changing to a new Cylinder Casting supplier who has better quality castings. I have noticed this problem as well.
the inside edges of the ports are always rough and need to be cleaned up before chroming...
The Cylinder Casting supplier had problems with chroming the cylinder. Chrome lining would flake off. His outside source was closed down and his new source did not do well. We think the New Cylinder supplier will not have this flake off problem. A watchful eye is on this issue. . . Complaint is justified: If enough customer pressure is placed on the Importer to order engines with port polishing done before plating with an extra cost charge we can get that done. Money can fix.
the CNS carbs......
There is a lot not known in the field about why we have to use this carb. EPA will not let us use the smaller NT carb like we used prior to 2010. The factory that makes the CNS Carb with the Sq. Red AC changed ownership and quality went to ****. In that light we will go back to using the old original CNS Carb from a better factory source along with the long Z tube with paper cone AC. Our 2012 EPA testing for the SuperRat will most likely have a better carb design if we can get it done. I do not like the canter leaver effect of hanging the CNS carb out on a long Z tube but EPA rules and common sense does not compute with bureaucrats. As of this Q4 2011 we now have to cap off the air fuel idle adjustment screw per EPA so you can no longer adjust out that feature. I see others still bringing in engines with the old style NT carb and we do not know how they can get them past EPA unless they lied on the test report? If some one knows how please tell me, We know the CNS is being tossed in the dust bin and the old style NT replacing it, but try to get EPA bureaucrats to understand that.
matching the ports for the intake and exhaust flanges would be nice...
We have a new 66cc one piece head & cylinder coming on line in 2012 with 40mm wide intake stud spacing and 50mm wide exhaust stud spacing. Old style is 30 & 40mm.
get rid of the acorn nuts on everything, for that matter....
Acorn nuts are now for squirrels; Color them gone
head not being milled properly so there was a gap between the head and the jug at the headstuds...
have not noticed this but will check it out. Some Pictures would help (if you post a pic I will make sure Grube gets it)
and on the GT5-A superhawk, the heads need to be twice the thickness. every single one of them has blown headgaskets.....
Have never heard this complaint before? If we had head gaskets all blowing in one day our WD's would be squawking warranty by now? One needs to check the head bolt torque on all these engines before starting. The new one piece integral head and cylinder coming out next year will take care of this. (I must say that I have read enough about this issue, so not sure if the feedback is not reaching over seas or what, the one piece head seems to be a way to remedy this issue)
I appreciate you (bairdco) taking the time to provide all this feedback, hope some of what is said above makes it worth your effort. I'm glad to hear of all this personally and look forward to seeing some of these changes show up on the kits that are delivered to mb riders... I noticed the pictures of the new SkyHawk kits that just came in show the new (old) CNS carb with the aftermarket style air filter, so that's a step in the right direction.....
Again, I am not working for Grubee, or any kit supplier, or anyone for that matter. I just see how a little effort on my part might be able to clear up some of these issues we are chatting about here all the time anyway, and figure why just chat with each other about it, why not pass the information on and try to improve the situation....
If anyone wants to comment or add to the list of issues that should be addressed on the Grubee kits, or post about a failure or QC control issue please add to this thread and I will see to it Grube is made aware...
I'm sure if you want to run a custom head you can just buy the two piece cylinder and use whatever head... Also, I am pretty sure this was in reference to the new "Super Rat" motor that should come this way next year sometime (which has the wider spacing on the intake/exhaust), not the regular GT-5, though I am not completely clear on that. (bairdco had commented more extensively about blown head gaskets on a Super whatever it was a couple posts back)
I haven't completely digested the idea of a one piece cylinder/head yet myself, almost hard for me to comment until I try one and have whatever kind of experience that brings... (I don't run a custom head)
That is one less gasket to blow or leak, and two less surfaces that need to be machined to mate properly...
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This is how engines can be imported on a daily basis with no problems:
EPA form 3520-21:
7. Nonconforming engines imported under special conditions.
7e: Spark ignition engine less than or equal to 19kW (25 Hp) either used in a recreational vehicle, with rated speed 5,000 RPM or greater, and with no installed speed governor, or for use as a model aircraft engine. (40 CFR 90.1(b)(5)).
Clearly, Grubee doesn't know the EPA rules and regs.
I personally do not see what you are trying to say here, please explain? How does that apply to these motors?
Grubee is certainly importing motors regularly, I wouldn't say on a "daily" basis, but they are being imported. The sticking point is the CARBURETOR, which the EPA is mandating certain aspects of before they can be imported. I assume since Grubee had been importing motors with the NT carb but was forced to change carbs by the EPA, he is operating under their mandate?
How could he not understand their rule when they are the ones mandating the changes in the carb? Please explain. If he is blind and ignorant on the matter I WILL tell him! LOL
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Rohmell, you seem to have a real bone to pick with either the Grubee company or Don Grube himself. If you don't mind, would you please take a moment to explain to me WHY? (either here or send me a private message if you prefer)
I understand Grubee motors are lacking in QC sometimes, but so is every other china girl motor sold by anybody for that matter. The way I see it I am pleased he is willing to listen to feedback about his product and it will hopefully improve as a result.
I am just wondering why you have been so negative about Grubee in general and specifically about me trying to send feedback in attempt to improve them?
Like Grubee said in reply to my complaint about the ports not being polished before the cylinder is chromed....
If there is enough demand for this to be done from the distributors and a willingness to pay a bit more for the product the cylinders can have the ports polished before it is chromed.
So it seems we should be expressing to our kit distributors our willingness to pay a little more to get a cylinder that is a bit better manufactured. I know I have read people say they would prefer to pay a little more $$ for a better product here in the forum. It seems the distributors should be onboard with this as well, since there will be less failures and customer dissatisfaction if the ports were cleaned up better before the kits went out. I don't know how they may feel about ending up on the high side of the price war, however, they could definitely advertise the improved quality cylinder which would be quite a selling point....
That said, I guess Grubee is using a different company to do the casting now and the fins are supposed to be cleaner as a result, though the transfer ports are still not gonna be polished before the cylinder is chromed until we raise a stink with the distributors and express a willingness to pay a slight premium for a premium cylinder.
I guess they (distributors) look at the cost of the kits, import fees, EPA fees etc and then have to think about being able to sell the kit at the best price. With that in mind they are not eager to ask that parts be manufactured in a better, more costly manner, unless we demand it and make them know if they invest in more expensive kits we will buy them...