Rear belt drive?

I have had a golden eagle since 2005. Broke spokes twice before buying their wheel. Then it broke 3 spokes. So I respoked it with 12 gauge spokes last summer. No problems so far, but I do not ride with golden eagle much now that I have GT50R from Dax with a chain drive (friction drive always left black tire dust when I ran it).
 
Never saw this thread, so am signing on now that the party is over. Seems to me that the idea has merit, but needs to be done and tested, tweaked and tweaked again. I'm just now starting my first belt drive using a whizzer sheave and will happily go with that since I want the build to be reminiscent of a 1950's Whizzer. (Thread is called "Kindalikeawhizzer") However, I'd like to see something done with another driven pulley. A possible freebie large diameter pulley would be from a washing machine (or is it a dryer?... can't remember). The center hole where it bolts onto a shaft would have to be opened up some to make the hole bigger, then drilled for a clam shell adapter or a kit rag joint. Seems to me that a jack shaft along the way would give more control over easily changing the gearing. The jack shaft could even be an old 3 speed Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. Yes, I know that would make it technically illegal, but so are most of the engines we're running. Just thinking. It would be nice to have no greasy chain, quiet running and gear choices so that a smaller engine could yield more power.
SB
 
silverbear said:
Never saw this thread, so am signing on now that the party is over. Seems to me that the idea has merit, but needs to be done and tested, tweaked and tweaked again. I'm just now starting my first belt drive using a whizzer sheave and will happily go with that since I want the build to be reminiscent of a 1950's Whizzer. (Thread is called "Kindalikeawhizzer") However, I'd like to see something done with another driven pulley. A possible freebie large diameter pulley would be from a washing machine (or is it a dryer?... can't remember). The center hole where it bolts onto a shaft would have to be opened up some to make the hole bigger, then drilled for a clam shell adapter or a kit rag joint. Seems to me that a jack shaft along the way would give more control over easily changing the gearing. The jack shaft could even be an old 3 speed Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. Yes, I know that would make it technically illegal, but so are most of the engines we're running. Just thinking. It would be nice to have no greasy chain, quiet running and gear choices so that a smaller engine could yield more power.
SB
Click to expand...

Well, glad to see that you saw this one too. Yeah, I think a couple of the guys and now you, are ping the route of the 1920's with the large rear belt sprocket. I wonder what the need for that is. Torque? Too much for a
Belt to use chain sized cogs?
I was liking Dans idea with the hub clamp we sell. Jeff Wolf used a belt on DMB's amazingly awesome red mega thumper. Looks tight. As in b*tchin' . I am building a 200cc and thought I could get some info here rather than bug CCC.
 
Well if there are some people who may know... I have a question.

In theory, could you run a belt directly from the engine output shaft, to a large sheave on the rear wheel, using a hand operated tensioner to engage?
 
Trey said:
In theory, could you run a belt directly from the engine output shaft, to a large sheave on the rear wheel, using a hand operated tensioner to engage?
Click to expand...

Why on gods green earth would you do that? What are you trying to accomplish? Having to reach back to engage the tensioner would be distracting and dangerous, unless you made some complicated pulley system so that you could engage the tensioner with a re-purposed break handle. But again what do you think you would be accomplishing by doing that? Except making the system more convoluted.
 
Actually it is pretty simple and the lever for engaging the belt to the pulley can be right next to you, not behind. If you know where it is, you don't need to look away from the road at all. Lots of early motored bikes used this simple arrangement. It acts as a manual clutch.
SB
 
Wow, talk about showing up late... please excuse me, I haven't had access to a computer.

Bohemian Lady- I guess my answer is, because it's mechanical and kewl. I like to build as much of my stuff as I can, and aside from the challenge of engineering it, I like that I probably won't see another one.(^)

Silverbear-Thanks for that man, it must be something I've seen somewhere, think I'll do some web surfin. I'm really interested to know about belt/pulley types, lever angles, bracketry etc. I'll let ya know when I get a plan together.
 
So where are we with this thread idea? It has so much potential that I hate to see it fade away into nothing. Even failed ventures inform and help to point the way to success. I have a feeling that there are any number of ways to make this work. Mostly, it just needs doing. No doubt one way is more elegant than another, or less expensive, or more foolproof, but there must be a way.

A year from now will be the winter of 2015-16 and once again I will have two bike projects sitting at either end of my old trailer house in the woods, a 1957 Spartan Royal Manor. I think that one of the bikes is going to be an upgrade project to my American Flyer (1950 Schwinn Panther), which has been my faithful daily rider. It started out with a 50cc huasheng 4 stroke with a Q-matic transmission which is belt initial drive and from the output clutch chain drive to a manic mechanic hub adapter.

Along the way I added a sidecar for Aaniimoosh The Wonder Dog made from part of a Gruman canoe and with the additional weight and drag seriously needed more power. I swapped engines to a 99cc Predator which was a great improvement, but still not the greatest for steep inclines. I don't do pedal assist, thanks anyway. Much as I like this ride, it still wants more power. So, it needs a different engine.

I have a 147CC 2 stroke Jacobsen from a power burst snow blower, vintage 1970's which is a robust little engine and I think it will give power in the range that I want and need for this build. My plan is as much as possible to use what I have on hand and keep the cost down. So, although tempted to go to a CVT transmission I will use the Q matic again, which has been a reliable transmission and is what I already have.

In line with the subject of this thread, I would like to change the final drive over to belt. I'd need to switch the sprocket on the clutch to a pulley of the same diameter and use a pulley at the rear wheel of the same diameter or in the same general range (probably smaller by a bit to increase the top end and lower rpm on the engine). Not sure how yet without staring at salvaged parts, but I should be able to drill and bolt the pulley to the sprocket on the manic mechanic hub adapter. Yes, I would reuse the sprocket and in fact have an old one with worn teeth that would serve the purpose and attach the pulley to the sprocket. The hub adapter will have plenty of bite against the hub, leave the spokes (11 gauge) alone and have some lateral adjustment on the hub. The hub is an older Bendix coaster brake type and is excellent.

I don't wee why this won't work at little additional expense (pulleys and belt). Anyone see a problem? I may need to open up more room at the frame for belt clearance, but will better know that when the time comes. I can mount the engine a bit off center if need be and will be removing the recoil pull start, tinwork,and shaving down the flywheel to shrink up the engine. Engine starting will be by hand crank as I'm doing with two other builds (Elgin Velocipede and "Kindalikeawhizzer" which is also final belt drive to a traditional whizzer sheave).

I thought about doing away with the Q matic and going directly from a pulley at the engine to a sheave on the rear wheel, but this is actually simpler since I have the Q-matic and the hub adapter. When this project gets underway I will do a thread with photos and narrative. It is still a long way off, but I am committed to the engine upgrade and am tired of chain final drive.

Suggestions are welcome.
SB
 
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACCU-Link-S...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item35e3c3f3cc

I've added a link to an ebay listing in the USA to give an idea of expense in US dollars. Not bad considering. I admit that this kind of belt is new to me. I assume that it holds up well or it wouldn't get used as a permanent belt. A couple of things to like about this is that you can add length or shorten a belt to maintain fit. Another is that with spare lengths tucked away in the tool pouch a repair would be a simple thing. I'd like to look into this more thoroughly. Initial expense might be greater, but it might be that you end up buying just one belt with the peace of mind of knowing you can replace links at any time. Do you have experience with this belt, Anne? Anyone?
A nagging little thought is that it seems to me that with an actual whizzer sheave the belt is not a true V, but is flatter on one side so that if reversed belts get eaten quickly. Making sure of compatibility between the link belt and pulley type being used would be paramount.
I'll have to go back through the thread to refresh myself on lowrider's wheel rim method as I don't recall what it is. Having your attention on this matter is a good thing, Anne, as I know that you have a keen mind with things mechanical. We need your mechanical know-how. Where is fasteddy? His, too. Cannonball2 is another.
SB
 
http://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html

Earlier on this thread Rohmel provided the above link to the link belt sold at Harbor Freight... all reviews are top rating and the five feet of 1/2" belting is 25 bucks. I can use leftovers on one of my power tools... grinder, table saw, compressor, etc. The price on this accu link brand is about half that of others, so this is what I'm going to buy. Looks like I'll be buying a belt for my Panther upgrade one time only. Reading some of the reviews at Harbor Freight is a great encouragement!
SB
 
No I haven't made use of this type of belt before Silverbear, but my feeling is that it is much more flexible than a traditional 'V' belt. The major plus is that trying to find a belt that's the right size becomes a thing of the past and as you say the capacity for quick and easy roadside repairs and adjustments makes this type of belt very attractive indeed.
As to how they might perform on a Whizzer sheave I couldn't really say, but I don't really see a reason why they wouldn't work out Ok.
 
Here is lowriders post #39

"I've got 2 MB's that are V-Belt drive. My method is to mount another same-sized rim to the spoked rim. I clean both surfaces up with a file & some rubbing alcohol, then JB Weld together, then drill small holes through both (not thru the tube channel & bolt together w/ a few thin bolts with nylock nuts. They haven't needed truing with thousands of miles on them. The extra rim (pulley) strengthens the spoked wheel. I run powerful, fast engines (Lifan 2.5 hp 98cc & Stage 2 Pocket bike engines) & the setup seems to handle the loads just fine so far...
-Lowracer-"

This strikes me as absolutely brilliant. Thanks for bringing this low tech, low expense idea to our attention, Anne! When you do it, take some pictures for show & tell.
SB
 
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Section belts I wrote a lot about in my Art Fish MB maybe Side Car... thread.

Of the section type belts, the green Accu-Link belt at HF is not as tough as the red Power Twist Plus, which I got a Grainger.



No way am I saying don't use section belts, but they just could not take the tightness I wanted so the belt would not slip. For looks maybe they serve a purpose and get buy with low torque like alternator, but otherwise not a good choice for my dirt bike.

I use the AX type cogged v-belt:

http://www.gates.com/products/industrial/industrial-belts/heavy-duty-v-belts/tri-power-belts

http://www.gates.com/products/autom...d-accessory-belt-drive-system/tri-power-belts

Around small diameter pulleys they are not as good as a regular v-belt.

Even better though is use the cogged v-belt that is not a toothed belt to fit the synchronous type pulleys, but just bend around a smaller pulley better. Cogged belts do not wear as bad on small diameter pulleys.

You would have to make a way of tightening the belt and belt increment usually in 1 inch increments can be an issue, but I wanted 20:1 ratio 3hp 4stroke Briggs to climb hills a much as I could. A chain is really necessary, especially if the bet gets really wet. I may make a splash guard to help.

After riding a bit and getting grime on the pulley and belt, I clean the belt with only a towel a water. The pulley made of metal I clean with acetone to remove all trace of grime and then things grab.

See my last trip to the woods:

http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=595150#post595150

MT
 
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I see that the cogged V belts are reasonably priced. I can see where they would hug a small diameter pulley better than a regular belt. I was figuring on an idler pulley to keep tension no matter what kind of belt I end up using. Still curious about the linked belts and may still buy one to experiment with. I can always use it on the drill press, grinder, compressor or table saw. MT, thanks for your take on things and relating your experience. I don't foresee off road riding or in rainy conditions for myself, but you can always get caught in a rain.
Your bike does well on the trail ride and sounds good. Is that your new go pro clone camera? Nice footage!
SB
 
The SJCAM SJ4000 Original does work well. I'm and wondering now about some low volume buzzing sound sometimes now, but not earlier when I got it. This only when I turn it on when it is already plugged in a charging the battery.

Something about the version firmware I have heard, but am leaving it be. I think it is normal for all the SJcams. I think the person who wrote about this as being a problem thinking it was precursor to the cam failing, locking up or whatever, is just circumstantial. I feel it best not to mess with it.

About either section belt, they just don't have enough contact surface area to really pull with 3hp 20:1 ratio up a hill.

When I got disgusted having even the regular belt on smaller than 3 inch diameter pulley under high tension and torque forces, I switched to gears and short chain.

It turns out that although I have twin jackshafts, I did no longer need them both to get 20:1 ratio when I replaced weaker aluminum rear wheel washing machine pulley with a stronger but larger steel sheave that had about 20 percent larger diameter.

But then I found out after replacing my muffler tail pipe from weaker copper or stainless flex water pipe that had modified copper gaskets, for high temp, now changed over to thick solid cast iron/steel, I did need the second jackshaft to make clearance so it would fit. No waste there. Also clearing the stays without modifying frame, the extra jackshaft gave flexibility to design.

If I ever want to climb walls at 5 mph or go parade speed (legal for DMV Dept of Mutant Vehicle Burning Man Event) dressed up motor bike as a California Sheepshead Fish style, I can do that with gear change between top to bottom jack shafts and make up another slightly longer chain. One jackshaft is adjustable to set tension on chain perfect.

I just saw that a Boeing 747 with wings removed and to be heavily modified as mutant vehicle for 2015 Burning Man Event may come to life. This means I can swim my fish looking for krill swept up under its trucks as it rolls across the playa's 30 thousand year old dry lake bed at 7000ft elevation.

MT
 
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