Pocket Bike Engine Project

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lowracer

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Oct 17, 2008
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I haven't noticed any difference in the idle rpm by switching carbs. With the old RT carb, when the engine gets hot, the idle would drop off some but not with the Walbro carb. I'm also not getting any leaking or strong gas smell which I am very happy about. All my Cags idled about the same rpms. Also not sure if the weight of your clutch arm material would make any difference in your idle rpm? I think you would also multiply by 2 (not divide by 2) to get an accurate reading from a 4 stroke tach...?
-Lowracer-
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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If you are using the standard small engine inductive tach you are reading actual rpms. The 2 and 4 strokes fire every revolution ignition wise. What you are reading is what its doing.
 

gera229

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Weight of clutch material, if it is lighter it engages at a higher RPM, thus allowing for a higher idle rpm before engagement. If it is heavier, the force load that pulls the springs out is higher. I learned this from the pocketbikeplanet forum.

What idle rpm are you getting? Also when idling let me know the highest and the lowest RPM you get too so that I can get an idea of the range you get.
If you have another cag engine mounted to another bike, let me know the idle rpm and range from max to minimum you get for the other cag engine too.
I want to see the difference you get. 200-300 difference in idle rpm may not be a lot, but to me it is, but convince me it is no big deal and that number is small and that difference in idle rpm is normal.
What's the max rpm you get? With your wheel off the ground, how long did you have to hold in full throttle before getting the max rpm? (I usually only hold it for like 3-5 seconds and get about 10.5k. Maybe if I hold it longer I might get a higher value I just don't want to ruin the engine while it's still on break-in period which may also be the reason why it's not at it's max performance yet and can rev higher after break-in, but correct me if I am wrong.)

If it's setup for 4-strokes from the factory, then you would divide the value by 2.
Why?
Because for 4 strokes every time the spark plug sparks it takes 1 revolution without a spark and 1 with a spark. Since the rpm meter cannot calculate the revolution without a spark, it multiplies the revolution of the one with the spark by 2 to make up for the revolution that did not spark. So a 2:1 ratio where the rpm meter would read 2 rpm values for 1 spark.

In a 2 stroke, you are not multiplying any value because 1 rpm is 1 spark, and since the rpm meter is multiplied by 2 with stock settings, you need to divide the value by 2. That way you are at a 1:1 ratio where 1rpm is 1 spark, 2rpms is 2 sparks, etc.

But maybe the stock settings are already set up for 2 strokes?
 
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gera229

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Ok, you posted 2700 rpm I believe, but I would still like to know your max and min idle rpm.

Today the worst thing happened, while my engine was riding good, after I reached my destination I parked for a bit then I pulled the pull start and it literally broke the aluminum casing I do not know how so I had to pedal.

No leaks for me so far, I am happy. I just try to run it normally and not too hard for too long to maintain engine life.

Also for the high RPM that occurs randomly, I think it's vibration that's causing the throttle to lift thus letting in fuel. Or vibration causing the cable to pull.

I was thinking about mounting the engine on 1/2" rubber pads to reduce vibration, do you recommend it? Will the rubber melt? I remember you once said that you have done it, I just do not remember if you took the rubber spacers off or not.

It's pretty loud, someone told me it's very loud, but so far so good.



 
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lowracer

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I'm sure its higher than 2700 rpm's but will have to check it out next time.
I only have one tach on 'The Beast'. I am running a 2nd Cag on my friction drive bike currently but without a tach. I did the same thing to a Cag pull starter once....Gotta buy another for $18-$20...The compression is high & the pull starter metal cover is cheap junk...
 

gera229

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Lol, glad I'm not the only one.

I'm trying to contact ebay members to ask them if it's possible to get just the pull starter unit with rope that bolts on with 3 bolts.

I sometimes get around 3000 rpm plus or minus. I now am more certain that my idle rpm is perfect and similar to yours. Idk the lowest idle rpm without the engine stalling, but I have had it pretty low around 2400, maybe less if I remember correctly where it is not very stable and I always get the feeling that it's about to shut off at this rpm which I do not think matters, but correct me if I am wrong. Plus I have a rocket key (I can feel the power difference), and that might require a higher idle rpm. More power means higher idle? Is it more power or more top end that requires higher idle rpm?
 
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cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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The 4 stroke single cylinder mag engine sparks every revolution just like the 2 stroke, it only fires every other revolution. I dont know what tach you have, if it has a 2/4stroke setting it may be a rpm range thing, mine works on either. 10k rpm for instance is the same for either engine, only the power pulses differ.
 

gera229

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If what you said cannonball is true, then 2 and 4 stroke would use the same settings since it gathers the signal right when it sparks via electromagnetic waves. And that time when it does not fire is still considered a revolution right? If so then they would use the same settings on the RPM meter.
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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The engine sparks every time the flywheel, rotor etc makes a revolution 2 or 4 stroke. The tach counts the impulse as one rev. The 4 stroke fires every other rev but is still firing the plug on the off cycle, so it has the same impulses a the 2 stroke.
 

gera229

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Hey lowracer, would you suggest skateboard 1/2" rubber riser pads to reduce vibration? I'm asking you because you have tried it. Does the engine heat melt the rubber?
 

lowracer

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Oct 17, 2008
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Gera,
Yeah I have used the rubber 1/2" riser pads although I am not using any currently.
They were on eBay. Make sure to not get the real hard material or it wont do much in the way of dampening.
-lowracer-
 

gera229

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What kind of material did you have in hardness?
Why don't you use them anymore?

Did they melt in any way due to heat?
 

gera229

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You already recommended me riser pads a while back, I bought hard rubber riser pads.

The ones you linked to are probably hard rubber too because they are pretty thick.

I see how you reduced vibration... because the front forks had shocks on them I guess.

I will give my riser pads a try. I originally wanted to try 1/4" pads but those were not in stock, but I guess I will try 1/2" pads that I already have.
 

gera229

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http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=345252&highlight=rubber#post345252

Post #156
That's what I got a while back and still haven't installed them haha.

But those are heavy duty hard rubber pads and they flex. (He originally shipped me plastic pads due to out of stock rubber pads, but then I got the rubber pads later on)

Are they the right ones? I mean that's what you had back then and it worked?

I will still try them out soon.
 
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gera229

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That's what I have.
Yesterday I tried to see if they would fit, but unfortunately my bike frame where the back wheel is, is too skinny. So if I lift the engine by 1/2" the chain will literally be rubbing on the bike frame. It already ate away some steel by rubbing on it.

I will see if I can come up with a solution for that. Maybe make a new mount for the engine and bring it slightly lower.