Pocket Bike Engine Project

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BigBlue

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Nov 29, 2011
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Lowracer,

Did the RT carbs come with the engines or did you purchase them separately? Wonder if they are the same ones that Dax sells? I had planned on using one of Dax's carbs down the road.

Thanks for the post.

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 

gera229

New Member
Sep 4, 2011
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Hey Lowracer, which Walbro did you get?
The wt603 carb has 16mm's the wt813 is larger around 18mm's in the inlet area
I think those are the two that fit CAG engines.

I literally made my CAG engine that it feels so much stronger (14 and 11 tooth made a big difference in power and acceleration, and now they are sort of barely noticeable with the added power I have)
I don't know what exactly gave me the power, but I got a timing key from daves for $1 on a Friday sale and grinded half of it off (Because I thought it would keep it cooler at 5 degrees timing compared to 10 degrees, while still giving it more power with timing it a little better than stock.) I dremled the exhaust pipe port and gasket and made it larger, and the new head kit might have contributed to this as well.
Or maybe it was the reed valves, where the 2 teeth are at the tips I grinded like half of the material off so the reeds open more and give more fuel so more power. But be careful because if the reeds open too much the ends of the reeds will hit the crankshaft.
Also tried to reduce compression. Idle rpm now seems higher so engagement may be random, not sure why, but I'm happy with the power. I hope with a Walbro (which I haven't bought yet), I can help with idle so much better and get better reliability.

Btw, IMO the engagement on the China Clone performance clutch and spring rates are false. The engagement is not where it should be and causes alot of wear.

I tried it at probably the lowest RPM setting, but it engaged a too high of an RPM either because mines did not have a chuck and key or because the red springs were too stiff.

Some guy replaced his red springs with lighter ones and has way better results meaning less wear, earlier and better engagement, and reliability.
 

lowracer

New Member
Oct 17, 2008
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Gera,
I got the WT603 kit coming in the mail. I'm pretty sure the RT carb has a 15-16mm opening. I'm very happy with the Stage 2 power without seeing the need to change anything else. My main reason for the carb experiment is to hopefully stop the drippy drips I get & if I can pickup any fuel economy in the change-over that would be a bonus. The red springs in my clutch seem almost perfect for the type of street riding I do. True the advertised engagement points are nothing close to reality. For me, the engagement is @ a bit higher rpm's than stock & disengagement is real positive. I did loosen the two clutch spring retaining bolts & red loctited the threads to not have a preloaded spring. The stock clutch springs are a problem waiting to happen for these engines & I had a recent run of snapping springs. I was almost to the point of not wanting to ride The Beast & taking one of my other two reliable MB's. The new clutch has about 100 miles on it now & runs great so I may buy another for when I resurrect one of my other 2 Cags in storage.
-lowracer-
 

gera229

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Sep 4, 2011
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RT has 14, slight slightly under 14, it's like 13.75mm. And that is still not enough in the RT carb and a lot due to its lack of tunability.

A swirl bored stock carb($20 to do this from a person on PBplanet) to 14mm would do better than the RT carb because of the way it works and tunes. The RPM range would be better than the RT carb too.
 

lowracer

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Oct 17, 2008
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The RT has no performance issues & runs like a champ from idle on up to 11,000 rpm's, it just leaks every now & then after engine shutoff & from being bounced around from pedal biking it unmotored (it also always stinks like gas vapor). Refinement is what I'm looking for.
This Cag is the 1st one I bought & has thousands of miles on it. I'm just trying eliminate the few weak areas left (clutch & carb).
Will advise on carb once I have it installed w/ a few miles on it.
-Lowracer-
 

lowracer

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Oct 17, 2008
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The Walbro carb arrived today in the mail. I had just gotten back from a long day of riding the MB for work purposes & thought I blew my engine about 4 miles from my house. Heading home & wanting to keep up with traffic, I had the Cag running ~10,600rpm's. I decided to back it down to about 8000 rpm's & after a few seconds it started losing power like when you begin to run out of gas or blow a hole in your piston (been there done that). I stopped by the side of the road, popped the v-belt off & twist wrapped it around my handlebars for 'pedal time'. On the way home, I pulled out the cell phone & ordered a Papa Johns pizza. When I pulled into my community, I got my pie & held the box on the handlebars for the rest of the ride home stopping only three times to eat 3 slices of hot pizza...yum
Got home, rehydrated & removed the cylinder head & jug for further inspection.
No piston holes, or worn cylinder rings or any damage...?
So I put it all back together & gave it a pull & walla, runs fine again...
Not sure what happened, but glad I dont need to order any new parts.
I removed the old gas tank & carb & drained all the fuel out. Installed the new Walbro & took a pic to share. I'm still waiting on a new two line fuel tank that I ordered yesterday & then will need to solder up a new throttle cable. The carb didnt come with any instruction manuals so I am surfing the web for Walbro WT-603 set-up tips.
see pic
-Lowracer-
 

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killercanuck

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Dec 17, 2009
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"When your bike decides to die, but you still get a pizza pie, that a'more..."

Do a search here. There's a couple on Walbro's, which are similar to Mikuni's, and Goat has a great thread, but I can't find it atm... sry.
 

lowracer

New Member
Oct 17, 2008
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killercanuck,
I liked your song...lol
I found some good info about the Walbro WT603 on the Goped sites.
Once the fuel tank arrives, I'll have some fun hooking it all up & testing...

-What I found-

"Carb adjusting

Tuning of the Walbro carburetor requires patience, this is a high performance modification. Do not expect to bolt the carb kit on, set it to the initial settings, and have it run perfect. Walbro carb tuning is affected by atmospheric conditions (i.e. altitude, air temperature, humidity), other engine modifications (i.e. pipe, reed, porting), gearing, and gas/oil ratio. Set the carb to the initial settings, 2 turns open on the high speed and 1-1/2 turn on the low speed. You will need to turn the screws clockwise until they lightly stop, do not over tighten. Then back out the screws to the initial settings. When fine tuning, adjustments should be done in small increments, 1/16th of a turn. Plus, you need to pay close attention to the changes that are made. If an adjustment makes it run worse, then turn the adjustment screw the other way. It is always better to first adjust richer, screw out, then adjust leaner. Running too rich will not hurt the engine, it may only foul a spark plug. Too lean of a setting can result in a piston seizure, damaging the piston, rings, and cylinder wall. The low speed screw will also affect the idle, if the low speed is set too rich, it will not idle.

Pocket Bike Walbro WT-603 Reed Assy Carb Kit

They dismantle the old air filter, carburettor and the intake manifold. Clean the Crank Case from the old casket.
Mounting the Reed Assy with the Gaskets.

Install the throttle cable into the carb as shown. Insert the cable into the barrel and hook the end of the cable into the swivel on the Walbro WT-603 carb. Be sure that the throttle cable does not come in contact with the exhaust pipe or that it gets kinked when the bars are turned in either direction. Bolt the carb and velocity stack onto the billet manifold using the supplied 5x50mm allen bolts, lock washers, and flat washers. There is no gasket in-between the carb and velocity stack, as the carb has an o ring.
Install air filter. You will need a 1-3/4” clamp on style filter when using the velocity stack provided. Install fuel lines with the supply line feeding the multi-barbed fitting straight out the bottom of the carb and the return line connecting to the Tank Cap. This carburetor requires that a supply and a return line is used. Plugging the return line can result in the carb not being able to be tuned properly. The clear bulb on top of the carb is a fuel circulation pump, not a primer. This will not pump fuel into the engine, it will only fill the circuits in the Walbro carb. It is best to pump this bulb a few times before starting a cold engine, making sure the bulb has fuel in it."

-Lowracer-
 
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gera229

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Sep 4, 2011
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Hey, how does this carb fit compared to the old carb you had? Is it bigger or smaller?
(My Delloroto clone hits the end of my bike frame with the airfilter, so if this walbro carb extends any farther than that with the velocity stack I suspect that it will not fit.)
Any results yet?
 

lowracer

New Member
Oct 17, 2008
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Gera,
I received the fuel tank in the mail today from Monster Scooter. I quickly got it installed & adjusted to carb to the factory stock settings (2 out on High side, 1-1/2 out on Low side). I took it out for a spin & will need to work on the jet setting some since it wants to bog out evey now & then once underway. It could also be related to the tiny intake fuel line or the air restrictive fuel cap. The carb is much smaller & closer in towards the engine than any other carb I've seen for a pocketbike...
So far so good...Will play with it some more this weekend
-Lowracer-
 

lowracer

New Member
Oct 17, 2008
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Gera,
Just for sits & giggles, I took out one of my bad running Cags & installed the 1 good chinese RT carb of the 4 I own. I unbolted my Subaru Robin from the BMP friction drive I have on one of my MB's & installed the CAG. This thing rips...It goes much faster than I dare take a no-suspension MTB.
-Lowracer-
 

gera229

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Sep 4, 2011
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Okay, so I assume the carb would fit for me.
Does the manifold tilt upwards like the RT carb too? Because that would be a good thing for my frame.
 

lowracer

New Member
Oct 17, 2008
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Gera,
Yeah carb would definately fit. The manifold does have the updraft like the RT carb but this carb can work in any position since it doesnt have a float bowl...
-Lowracer-
 

lowracer

New Member
Oct 17, 2008
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Gera,
I got the carb tuned to pretty much where I like it, but it took awhile. I'd carry a screwdriver in my left hand & stop many times to make small adjustments to see what would happen. I also did alot of research on the PB forums for info about these Walbros. There are some pulse port mods to make it perform even smoother but require drilling & tapping & I'm not trying to do all that. The stock settings aren't too accurate to start at for a Stage2 (probably would be for a stock Cag). The stock settings are 1.5 out on the Low side & 2 out on the High side but these settings are too lean for my rig & would bog miserably. I thought it was my fuel cap not breathing or fuel line being too thin so I modified both to no avail. Then I read some more & tried 2 out on the Low & 2.5 out on the High side & it idles good & rips on the top without bogging. If this carb can maintain a nice idle at any engine temperature (something the RT carb wasnt very good at) & not drip at all, I'll be a very happy camper. So far no drips & perfect idle. I will bring a small screwdriver for my next long ride just to fine tune the carb if necessary. Now I gotta go get my MTB ready for an early morning ride in the woods with some buddies...
-Lowracer-
 
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gera229

New Member
Sep 4, 2011
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Nice, but you cannot ride motorized bicycles in the wood? Law doesn't allow it for environmental reasons.
 

gera229

New Member
Sep 4, 2011
465
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USA
Are you getting any better idle RPM with your Walbro than you did with your RT carb?
I just found a good spot for idle RPM with my RT clone based carb. It's around 2500-3000 according to the RPM meter and since it is a 2 stroke engine, divide that number by 2 to get the actual RPM readings for 2 strokes. Only problem is that if I let it idle for too long without giving it any throttle, the engine would sometimes shut off unless I give it just a slight touch of throttle to keep it going.

If I increase the idle RPM that would just be too high, so I was wondering how the Walbro does. I do not know why my idle RPM would be higher than yours, but I guess every engine is different. Maybe it's my carb which I doubt. Could also be exhaust differences between mines and yours that cause an idle RPM difference. If it performs good then I will be happy. I will try to not run it on max RPM just to extend the life of the engine. Did all of your 3 cag engines (when you still had them) have different idle RPMs and were they all the same setup with all the same exhaust and/or carb? Or different setups (which might have caused a difference in idle RPM maybe?)?

I still haven't gotten my motorcycle license so I cannot really ride it on the streets to genuinely test it. But I like the aluminum clutch because it allows for a higher RPM without engagement because the pads are so light. And that is why my idle RPM can be higher than that of an engine with a steel clutch, but still kind of a bit high.

I am so happy, today I managed to fix my leak on my motorized bicycling by having an exhaust shop weld all the holes on the exhaust pipe for $10.
Runs pretty clean now so far.

Gera
 
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