Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Discussion in 'Board Trackers and Vintage Motorized Bicycles' started by indian22, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. PeteMcP

    PeteMcP Well-Known Member

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    Engine stand is a great idea Rick. Could have done with something like that when I was figuring out how best to mount my build No. 3's Gnome et Rhone motor in the frame. Lost count of the times I had that engine in and out of the frame single-handedly while I measured-up for motor mounts prior to having them water jet profiled. My G et R engine weighed a lot less than your Twin - so your engine stand will save you a bunch of un-necessary lifting in and out. (Incidentally, watched an American Pickers episode recently where Mike scored a shop display V-twin motor installed in a mount fabbed from what looked like half a wheel rim).

    If I may presume to make a suggestion, assuming you haven't given thought to such detail already; a nice finishing flourish to make your engine's crank casings look like castings would be to include 'cast-on' company lettering as per prototype (see the scale model Anzani engine a few postings back, for example). I used Slaters Plasticard styrene letters on my Indian Tribute build's output sprocket cover with success - pic below. The individual letters were superglued to the cover then over-sprayed and have been capable of withstanding any small amount of heat generated on a gas motor - so you should have no problems if you want to add some 'Harley' lettering to your leccy motor's crank casing. Happy to source Slaters lettering on your behalf if you can't obtain it in the US.

    Carry on...

    FSCN3419.JPG
     
  2. Mr.B.

    Mr.B. Well-Known Member

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  3. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Pete thanks for the great suggestion. I had no idea where you came up with the Indian clutch cover, but should've known you fabricated it. It looks super.

    The lettering sets are available through Ebay.

    Stands for kit motors are super easy to fab from scrap steel frame tube and a bit of steel plate. Your experience is multiplied by the number of kit bikes assembled over the years and the frames bare the marks on those not laboriously sanded, filled and refinished. Though I build riders I'd still prefer avoiding frame damage while building.

    Rick C.
     
    #2083 indian22, Jan 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  4. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Mr. B I'd guess the 25 hp full size replica would make a super bike motor. The scaled down 3 cylinder Anzani large scale replica mounted in a more or less standard size frame looked right at home and I'd think a slightly scaled up frame would also attractively house a full size Anzani Aero motor, though I'll leave that project to another, I'd think it a worthy task.

    The replica motor is stunning! Looking at the Anzani 3 cylinder I realized it to be an atmospheric intake valve design & the time frame of this engine build co-insides with the state of the art design.in motorcycles also. I'd think flying these then or now to be rather risky yet that's how progress was made throughout the history of aviation.

    Rick C.
     
    #2084 indian22, Jan 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  5. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Contrasting advances during the first two decades of motorized transport is revealing and amazing. Giant strides were taken in the teens. I've been pretty focused on the moto bikes of this period, but the comments of a friend about Glen Curtiss and his many accomplishments in varied engineering designs along with his racing success was an eye opener. If it was motorized he had his hand in it. Two wheels or four, wings or marine he excelled in design and operating at speed all varieties of motor transport.

    Looking at the 1915 Harley Davidson F head design next to the 1920 Anzani engine is a relevant, to me, example of the fantastic strides that were being taken during these years. Innovative designs were replacing the agricultural engines of the early teens and replacing them with highly advanced, specialized motors which could power either daily transport or racing machines. The simple bicycle frame with an engine design that could just as well have been seen on farm equipment was by 1920 fast becoming what we know as the motorcycle, both frame and engine.

    I love the pre twenties bikes for their simplicity of style, while totally acknowledging the vast improvements of the later bikes safety, performance and overall quality.

    History rocks, yet todays what we have!

    Rick C.
     
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  6. Mr.B.

    Mr.B. Well-Known Member

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    Anzani-
    Bike, plane, bike and somewhere in-between. Full circle...
    Screen Shot 2020-01-26 at 4.54.58 PM.png
     
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  7. PeteMcP

    PeteMcP Well-Known Member

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    Here in the UK, the rant against cyclists disobeying the law and riding on pavements rages on.
    Imagine the carnage that Anzani bike would cause...!
     
  8. PeteMcP

    PeteMcP Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure a translation of the French caption to that photo reads....

    "...Our intrepid photographer was on hand to capture this image showing a red faced Mr Archdeacon and his son on their way to the infirmary to help extricate Archdeacon Jnr from his prototype Anzani Self Gratification Velocipede..."
     
  9. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Good gosh!
     
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  10. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Mr. B. for these photos. I've a friend who refurbishes aircraft parts and collects old, pre thirties, props which are beautifully displayed in his 110 year old home, which has some serious wall space. He's also quite an aviation historian. Now he's becoming a the fan of early motorized bikes due to the close connection of bicycle tech applied to flying, by men who constructed both while using rudimentary I.C. engines.

    He's going to love this prop powered death wish of a moto bike/bug killer and air fan which could be mounted with ski's for Winter transportation, then easily switched to pontoons for water travel (swamp buggy). I'm certain a prop cage was an extra cost option as was prop brakes and or pusher prop configuration.

    I'd think kick start and clutch was also added as family and friends lost appendages in the starting process. Oh I forgot it's French and they had people for that!

    Rick C.
     
  11. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    As for the Harley e-motor case. I fabricated the crank case motor mounts & three of the side cover plates for the magneto drive side of the case. Which had to be resized and recut on the plasma table because of some slight alterations to my original measurements. Design changes on the fly tend to significantly alter the whole. Then I found I lacked sufficient material to finish what I'd started. By that time I'd lost some momentum due to self induced laziness. At any rate I've plenty to do just not what I'd planned to do.

    Meanwhile it's raining mixed with a bit of snow & in the low thirties and yesterdays 68, no wind and one hundred mile plus visibility are only memories.

    Rick C.
     
  12. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Great day in Indian Territory snow mostly stayed North of my area but we've received a nice and much appreciated rain. The Sportsman flyer frame is spec'd and Pat has made a start on it; this is going to be one low slung S.O.B; while I spent the day indoors working out the brass carb design, not an exact replica of a Schleber, but a playful rendition, in the spirit of those early carbs and I like mine better!

    I really want to use Pat's HD battery tank, but can't seem to get my battery guru to come back with 72v. 30 amp hour pack size that will fit in it. The 48v,52v & 60 volt packs are easy fits however, but I'd like the option of going up to 72v. power without building a one off tank. a 60v. controller should fit in his large fake oil tank box and that's pretty sweet also.

    I also made some changes to the overhead rocker assembly and that's also coming together as are the brass fittings for the copper oil lines. All in all none of mine died today so I rate it a success.

    Rick C.
     
    #2092 indian22, Jan 28, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  13. sportscarpat

    sportscarpat Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker

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    Hi Guys,
    Rick had contacted me recently and asked if I could build a frame for his electric bike project that was a bit different than my normal Flyer frames. His electric v-twin case needed 2" additional head space. Figured I could knock out a custom frame and have wanted to deepen my loop as an R&D project anyway, so why make just one when you can make two?
    The frame will be lugged construction at most of the major joints similar to vintage frames. I will be using Worksman lugs at the steer tube, seat post tube connection and at the bottom bracket. I then fabricate the dropouts with lug connections as well so all the main frame tubes can then be brazed together. I could notch all the various tubes and tig weld them together but prefer the lug and braze process for its vintage accuracy.

    Here are the fabricated rear drops. The lower holes can be used for a rear stand. The upper holes are for a fender or rack. The small tabs are for axle adjusters and of course the lug sockets that will be brazed to the 3/4" frame stay and chain stay tubes. They may look a bit rough on the welding table but clean up real nice.

    [​IMG]Frame Construction by Pat Dolan, on Flickr

    Since the down tube would be different than standard I drew up the new design in CAD, checked the fit to my frame drawing, and printed the tube drawings full scale to use as a gauge during the bending process. If the formed tube matches my drawing then it should fit the frame once in the jig. Here are the formed down tubes, I made three, and the frame stay tubes being matched to my drawings. I constantly add notes to my drawings and update my masters. Nothing worse than trying to remember how to bend the same tubes in a month or two.

    [​IMG]Frame Construction by Pat Dolan, on Flickr

    Here are the finished frame stay and chain stay tubes checked against the drawing and each other. The lower chain stay tubes are always a challenge as the two back to back bends need to be as close as possible to each other and tax the limits on my tube bender. Also, when bending tubes with more than one bend you have to be careful to keep the bends parallel.

    [​IMG]Frame Construction by Pat Dolan, on Flickr
     
  14. sportscarpat

    sportscarpat Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker

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    Progress! Two rear triangles fresh out of the frame jig and still warm to the touch. Usually I fab up all the rear triangles first and pop them out of the jig to do the finish welding on my bench as its just easier to flip the smaller pieces around to weld. These will now be tig welded at the seat post connection and get an added gusset. I will say I have built a lot of frames over the years and the rear triangles are always a challenge. And compared to forks, these are easy! These will go back into the jig to get the front sections added. I know, my shop is cluttered with parts everywhere. I see a couple flat side tanks in the backround needing to be ground and sanded and some of my lighter duty springer forks. These forks do not get all the fancy lugs like my heavier ones but are still pretty strong, and of course heavy. I see some Harley style bars laying there, too. Been a busy week.

    [​IMG]Frame Construction by Pat Dolan, on Flickr
     
  15. sportscarpat

    sportscarpat Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker

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    Since I mentioned lug pieces, and as long as Rick doesn't mind, I thought I would post a couple non frame related lug pieces I make for forks. All are made from laser cut parts that are tig welded together to form the lugs. These will of course get brazed to the fork tube legs. These take a lot of time to produce.

    [​IMG]Lug Pieces by Pat Dolan, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Lug Pieces by Pat Dolan, on Flickr
     
  16. PeteMcP

    PeteMcP Well-Known Member

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    Ha, Pat...if my welds looked that good I wouldn't even bother cleaning them up!
     
  17. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    I could say a lot and usually do but Pat's photos and dialogue suffice. He's got skills that go way beyond fabrication. I'm so glad he decided to collaborate with me once again on this project and has taken time from his normal production routine to help me with design and fabrication of this frame based on my requirements. His involvement greatly simplifies this build for me and I'm convinced will result in a better vintage style bike; which pleases me greatly.

    There's more to come....

    Rick C.
     
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  18. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Schleber 6 volt. style carb (12v. available at slightly higher price) which atomizes electrons efficiently and with almost no resistance, patent pending. This particle accelerator's swirling action is positively guaranteed to amp up the power of most any engine by at least 25% with no negative effects. Great capacity for shocking performance. Currently available at J.C. Whitney and other purveyors of fine automotive parts & accessories. Quantities are limited and the demand high so get yours today. Imagine how envious all your friends will be!

    Not a replica, but I like to do reality checks on my builds, this a photo angle of a Schleber carb mounted on the 1917 HD F head board bike clearly shows the "oil can" float bowl of the original. I've included the brass fuel shut off valve mounted on the carb and doubling as the gas inlet fitting for the carb. The 1915 had two valves mounted on the tank. I think mine is a cleaner look and handy as well...if it worked! I still have the choke and throttle levers to add, and of course it's all pretty shiny which patina will take care of. I'm not a huge fan of very much shiny on early vintage style race bikes because they they weren't. If in doubt check actual vintage photos, not restorations, though this 1917 bike isn't much overdone.

    Rick C.

    schleber carb[1430].jpg 1917-Harley-Davidson-Model-17-T-Board-Track-Racer-8.jpg
     
    #2098 indian22, Feb 3, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  19. PeteMcP

    PeteMcP Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the heads-up Rick. Got to get me one of those carbs. Just need to check the size of my bike's overhead underhang before I order one. Particularly impressed with this carb's positive negativity recirculating capacitizer.

    (Just watched 1954's Devil Girl From Mars on Saturday and became fluent in tech stuff gibberish!)
     
  20. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    The two motors I have are 2kw, 48 volt, 4,500rpm, & 3kw, 72volt, 6,000 rpm. 2.66hp & 4hp respectively. Realistically, using the 2.7:1 reduction drive and running 26"wheels, I think the 2kw should be capable of 40 m.p.h. & the 3kw 50 m.p.h. with decent acceleration, not wheel bending, chain snapping torque but decent with a 44t final cog, but simple to change out till performance is balanced. Top speed isn't a big deal to me it does lend perspective however to over all performance and comparison with my other bikes., especially the 66 cc China girls speed parameters from bone stock to modestly modified...both running well on a good day, will reach thirty (stock) & somewhere around forty with a few minor mods with both running 44 tooth rear on 26" wheels. Some a bit less others more. Most stock 66cc CG kits don't get anywhere close to 2.5hp and few with, bolt on power parts and well tuned 66 cc actually produce more than 3.5 hp. This is my opinion so don't get panties in a bunch, remember I'm a fan of these little two strokes and own some that do better and some worse than both these figures. Only one of my two reed engines have dyno pulls over 4.5hp & both have significant internal mods, but don't run motorcycle x-pipes. They are tuned for the street and run mufflers and burn pump gas. So I think I'm being quite realistic in these observations.

    My expectations are not to build a lame running vintage looking board bike that can be passed by young women in spandex pedaling while texting and looking all hipster. Though the change of scenery might be nice.

    Rick C.
     

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