Maniac57 tests the HD Lightning CDI
- Thread starter maniac57
- Start date
maniac57
Old, Fat, and still faster than you
As an update, I recently swapped back to a stock angle plug head on the stock engine I have installed now for a few days until I can get my GenV swapped back into The Pig.
Even with the stock head, it runs about the same. Pulls clean right from idle and no annoying hiccups like the stock cdi. Might even be a touch faster since I run a 6cc fred head and the stocker might have more comp.
It is MUCH noisier without the fred head though.
Even with the stock head, it runs about the same. Pulls clean right from idle and no annoying hiccups like the stock cdi. Might even be a touch faster since I run a 6cc fred head and the stocker might have more comp.
It is MUCH noisier without the fred head though.
Davezilla
New Member
Yes, he's the same guy and he loves to insert himself into any intelligent conversation and bash on anyone he can in order try to make himself look like he's so much better than everyone else, he's done that to me too a few times so I called him out on it by asking him for a video or picture of this super bike he has and that shut him up for a few days but it wasn't long before he was all over another post I was helping out in doing the same thing with his pompus sarcastic and totally useless irrelevant comments...
Anyway, at least now we can get back on topic... I was enjoying this post before that..
Davezilla
New Member
This is nice to know because I got a similar setup on mine and have been thinking about switching over to the HD lightning, mine runs good with the stock CDI and I got a Rocket CDI for it but I still need to put it thru it's paces and see if that's the one I want to keep or not, but I'm pretty sure the HD lightning will have the best timing curve for my setup since it improves the full rpm range.
Would it not be interesting to have both systems, stock and aftermarket on a bike with a switch that you could use to change between them? The ignition wiring would be easy. The high voltage lead would be the challenge. I know it doesn't take long to change over but the ability to switch, one to the other under the exact same conditions would be a good test.
Has anyone tried it?
Tom
Has anyone tried it?
Tom
Davezilla
New Member
That's actually been done before but not on these or motorcycles..
MSD makes an automatic ignition selector that's basically a peice of insulated solid brass that has one output lead going to the distributor and 2 input leads going to the 2 ignition systems, then the driver can switch between the 2 from a toggle switch inn the cockpit. I think it's also a NASCAR reg that they run dual ignitions so they can switch between the 2 in the case of ignition failure or the system overheating, just a flip of the switch and no break down on the side of the track... But they usually run 2 complete systems, coil and all into an auto selector instead of the distributor thru this neat little toy... http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-MSD-AUT...Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c3d5663fc&vxp=mtr
I'm thinking one could do the same with the CDI units if they wish by putting a switch so wither one or the other would get the signal from the magneto....
MSD makes an automatic ignition selector that's basically a peice of insulated solid brass that has one output lead going to the distributor and 2 input leads going to the 2 ignition systems, then the driver can switch between the 2 from a toggle switch inn the cockpit. I think it's also a NASCAR reg that they run dual ignitions so they can switch between the 2 in the case of ignition failure or the system overheating, just a flip of the switch and no break down on the side of the track... But they usually run 2 complete systems, coil and all into an auto selector instead of the distributor thru this neat little toy... http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-MSD-AUT...Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c3d5663fc&vxp=mtr
I'm thinking one could do the same with the CDI units if they wish by putting a switch so wither one or the other would get the signal from the magneto....
In aviation applications it is normal to have two magnetos. You typically run on 'both' but you have the option to change from 'left' to 'right'. (The problem comes when you switch to one and the engine runs rough) especially when flying over water. 
I'm thinking of a switch that would have the contact rating that would allow the spark plug wire to be 'selected' just like the low voltage circuit.
I'm going to play with this idea and maybe explore one of these aftermarket devices just to satisfy my own curiosity.
Tom
I'm thinking of a switch that would have the contact rating that would allow the spark plug wire to be 'selected' just like the low voltage circuit.
I'm going to play with this idea and maybe explore one of these aftermarket devices just to satisfy my own curiosity.
Tom
mapbike
Well-Known Member
I have done some testing myself just by using the two different CDI's on the same bike in the same day on the same stretch of road, the stock CDI gave me the exact same performance as the Lightening for how the engine sounded, how it pulled the hills and what the top speed was.
I also have a Rocket CDI I will be doing a head to head comparison with as soon as I have the time, I will compare it to the Lightening and also to the stock unit, the maker of the Rocket has said that it also is timing unrestricted at high RPM's if that is the case I cant see that the Lightening would have any advantage over it or it have an advantage over a stock unit other than having a better coil just like the one that comes with the lightening, my choice would be to use the one from the vendor that is known to treat the customer with respect, I do give extra points to the Lightening for its looks, it is a better looking unit than the pill bottle of the Rocket unit, but a little soray of black paint of the Rocket pill bottle and it will probably look a lot better, in my opinion the seller of the rocket unit would be well served to spruce the unit up a bit and maybe paint the bottle and then apply the Rocket label since the ting looks a bit thrown together in my opinion.
On the switch issue, why couldn't one just use a three way toggle switch center position is off and one direction works one cdi and the other direction kicks in the other one... I'm gonna have to give this some consideration myself, that would be an excellent way to compare two of them side by side.
Map
I also have a Rocket CDI I will be doing a head to head comparison with as soon as I have the time, I will compare it to the Lightening and also to the stock unit, the maker of the Rocket has said that it also is timing unrestricted at high RPM's if that is the case I cant see that the Lightening would have any advantage over it or it have an advantage over a stock unit other than having a better coil just like the one that comes with the lightening, my choice would be to use the one from the vendor that is known to treat the customer with respect, I do give extra points to the Lightening for its looks, it is a better looking unit than the pill bottle of the Rocket unit, but a little soray of black paint of the Rocket pill bottle and it will probably look a lot better, in my opinion the seller of the rocket unit would be well served to spruce the unit up a bit and maybe paint the bottle and then apply the Rocket label since the ting looks a bit thrown together in my opinion.
On the switch issue, why couldn't one just use a three way toggle switch center position is off and one direction works one cdi and the other direction kicks in the other one... I'm gonna have to give this some consideration myself, that would be an excellent way to compare two of them side by side.
Map
Greg58
Well-Known Member
Map that's the way I was thinking of using a twin plug head and the toggle switch. I'm thinking you would get a high voltage arc across a switch on the plug wires. Resistors and diodes don't like voltage going the wrong way. At high rpm you would probably take out the cdi not being used at the time.
mapbike
Well-Known Member
Ok, maybe a switch is a bit more complicated to rig up than I was thinking, I guess I'll just stick to the seat of the pants and top speed testing which will show rpm potential on my bikes under exact conditions for each test.
in the past when testing out the jag type cdi that has the timing retard at high rpm I noticed a several mph decrease in top speed compared to the stock kit unit, and also noticed no top speed or noticed power increase when switching to the after market cdi that does not limit timing, I registered 9400 rpm with a stock unit and the same with the after market unit, but much less when I had the unit with the timing retarded at higher rpms.
I plan to give an honest result of my personal test with all other hooplah aside, the truth is the truth and if one shows to work better than the rest on my bikes then I will say it does no matter who made it. I will not misrepresent someones product or the stock unit which I personally think does a fine job and as good as any for 99.?% of the builds and stock bikes out there, but the custom unit may have a slight edge in an area or two on a highly modified build, two of my bikes cruise at mid 40.s +MPH these two will both get tested with all three CDI's I currently have.
Map
Using a double pole, double throw toggle will take care of the low voltage ignition wires. It's the high voltage lead that is the bug-a-boo. I'm not going to spring for a cylinder head, no matter how many spark plugs it will hold But I am going to figure out a way to get one plug to fire from two sources.
That will be the only way I see of a close to real comparison. Stopping to switch plug wires, to me, seems to negate the whole concept. The switching action will need to be almost zero resistance for the test to be definitive. I'm thinking, I'm thinking...
Tom
But I am going to figure out a way to get one plug to fire from two sources.That will be the only way I see of a close to real comparison. Stopping to switch plug wires, to me, seems to negate the whole concept. The switching action will need to be almost zero resistance for the test to be definitive. I'm thinking, I'm thinking...
Tom
MotorBicycleRacing
Well-Known Member
Double blind testing with all the riders blind folded.
mapbike
Well-Known Member
Using a double pole, double throw toggle will take care of the low voltage ignition wires. It's the high voltage lead that is the bug-a-boo. I'm not going to spring for a cylinder head, no matter how many spark plugs it will hold
That will be the only way I see of a close to real comparison. Stopping to switch plug wires, to me, seems to negate the whole concept. The switching action will need to be almost zero resistance for the test to be definitive. I'm thinking, I'm thinking...
Tom
Im curious to see what you come up with Tom.....
You're right, about that being an excellent way for testin g between the two.
In my case If I see a few mph difference between the two or no difference at all either way Ill feel like I have an answer that satisfies me on my bike, but that isnt scientific, just a simple way I will be making my comparison.
Im very curious to see what you come up with.
Map
mapbike
Well-Known Member
Lol........!
mapbike
Well-Known Member
I know what ya mean Tom, I'm deaf in one ear and can't hear anything out of the other one...
To many years of firearms, power tools, motorcycles, playing drum in a band that like a volume that would make the ears comfortably numb......
Now my arms are getting to short to focus my eyes well enough.....
Seems maybe I'd be a good candidate as well....lol
Map
F_Rod81
Dealer
Good review... thanks for the information Maniac. I think that I will have to give it a shot now. When it comes to "marketing" performance products for these engines I'm just as skeptical as Maniac. They say it might not be the best for a track racer, but for a street sleeper it sounds great.
mapbike
Well-Known Member
Just my personal opinion here but I honestly think that it is possible that some of the stock coils could be weaker than others being they are cheap mass produced chinese electronic parts, I know ffom experience that the jag type cdi with adjustment that retards timing works as good as the stock unit in the low to medium rpm range, but falls short on the upper rpm range because the engine that will rev highwith a stcok unit just will not reach the same rpms with the unit that retards the timing.
Now with the lightening cdi or the Rocket cdi that " doesnt retard timing ", I'm not so sure that it will actually give any better performance overall than a stock unit that is working right and has a good strong coil, it could very well be that having a more powerful ignition coil may have more to do with someone noticing what they believe is some gains as far as better starting and maybe what at could be a little better acceleration, after conversation with another very knowledgable memberon all of this I have come to think that the cdi does not vary timing at any rpm but rather just has a different setting that either causes timing to be more retarded all the way from idle to wot or for timing to be the same as the stock unit or slightly advanced all the way through the rpm range idle to wot. Im starting to lean more toward performance gains that some believe they notice to be more to do with having the better coil than actually having anything to do with the CDI itself, maybe this is why I have one engine that pulls good to 9000 rpm with stock cdi and doesnt do a bit better with the " Lightening" unit, its very possible that all that someoneneeds to do is replace the $10 stock cdi with a new one that may have a better coil and they would have seen the same reported improvements in idle quality or whatever gains they feel they have got from swapping the stock unit for the high dollar custom unit.
Just giving this some thought from a different angle here since one of my fastest bikes shows no gains at all from switching from the stock unit to the Lightening set up....
Next test will be the Rocket CDI on that same bike to see how it acts with it as far as top speed performance which is the only test I can do.
If someone had a radar speed gun and set up a marked off straight away they could do some testing for acceleration having the speed at maybe an exact level at a line and then wot until a particular distance and then time and speed being measured from start to end of that course, a straight away measured right is the only way to test acceleration right, a faster lap time isn't gonna be an accurate test because with all the turns there are to many variables involved including rider technique c oming into and outof the turns, even with a stock cdi on the same bike you are not gonna get the exact same lap time twice in a row.... that is just common sense.
Map
Now with the lightening cdi or the Rocket cdi that " doesnt retard timing ", I'm not so sure that it will actually give any better performance overall than a stock unit that is working right and has a good strong coil, it could very well be that having a more powerful ignition coil may have more to do with someone noticing what they believe is some gains as far as better starting and maybe what at could be a little better acceleration, after conversation with another very knowledgable memberon all of this I have come to think that the cdi does not vary timing at any rpm but rather just has a different setting that either causes timing to be more retarded all the way from idle to wot or for timing to be the same as the stock unit or slightly advanced all the way through the rpm range idle to wot. Im starting to lean more toward performance gains that some believe they notice to be more to do with having the better coil than actually having anything to do with the CDI itself, maybe this is why I have one engine that pulls good to 9000 rpm with stock cdi and doesnt do a bit better with the " Lightening" unit, its very possible that all that someoneneeds to do is replace the $10 stock cdi with a new one that may have a better coil and they would have seen the same reported improvements in idle quality or whatever gains they feel they have got from swapping the stock unit for the high dollar custom unit.
Just giving this some thought from a different angle here since one of my fastest bikes shows no gains at all from switching from the stock unit to the Lightening set up....
Next test will be the Rocket CDI on that same bike to see how it acts with it as far as top speed performance which is the only test I can do.
If someone had a radar speed gun and set up a marked off straight away they could do some testing for acceleration having the speed at maybe an exact level at a line and then wot until a particular distance and then time and speed being measured from start to end of that course, a straight away measured right is the only way to test acceleration right, a faster lap time isn't gonna be an accurate test because with all the turns there are to many variables involved including rider technique c oming into and outof the turns, even with a stock cdi on the same bike you are not gonna get the exact same lap time twice in a row.... that is just common sense.
Map
maniac57
Old, Fat, and still faster than you
The whole point of this thread was my opinion of the Lightning CDI.
I don't care about lap times and fractions of a second.
I care about a better pulling, happier sounding engine.
The HD Lightning CDI has improved my bike enough that I feel it is a worthwhile investment for someone interested in improving normal everyday riding, not just the hardcore racer crowd.
I don't care about lap times and fractions of a second.
I care about a better pulling, happier sounding engine.
The HD Lightning CDI has improved my bike enough that I feel it is a worthwhile investment for someone interested in improving normal everyday riding, not just the hardcore racer crowd.