Indian Tadpole

Discussion in 'Motorized Tandems, Trikes and Recumbent Bicycles' started by silverbear, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    It's shiny as a new penny. I'll play with it a little in a bit. Good suggestions. I'm really curious to see what they sealed it with. That will determine just where it goes.

    If it soaked into the leather it may get interesting. Then it gets blotchy with parts that will let colour in and parts that look new.

    Steve.
     
    Tom from Rubicon likes this.
  2. Ralph hop

    Ralph hop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2019
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    457
    Also Steve, there is a process in engine overhauls that is called hot dip or steam bathed is another. I've sent engines in and when I get the parts back the Nickle or zinc plated bolts or washers that are used for hoisting are back to raw Steele when I get them back, on an unharmed zip tie.
     
    Tom from Rubicon and fasteddy like this.
  3. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    The metal part I'll try black gun bluing on it or a quick, weak acid bath. I don't want to remove the finish as much as I want to deaden the finishes gloss. My money is on the fact this wasn't triple chromed and it won't take much.

    Maybe a salt water bath will work.

    Steve.
     
  4. PeteMcP

    PeteMcP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Argh! Steve.... I have that exact same saddle here - and it already has the scuffs and age related marks you're about to inflict on your new one. Came with the stretch cruiser I'm currently working on and it was the first thing I replaced. It's yours FOC if you want it. Maybe save the saddle you bought for the leccy project?
    stretch.jpg
     
  5. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Steve I've used this saddle on a build, though the front spring was hair pin style, rather than coil. and liked it. Really nice vintage look. The frame and leather held up really well too, though the rear springs decided to tilt at a certain point, but I had a pair of Harley bobber springs that were designed for big guys and that $20. solved the list to starboard & the occasional bottom out. Your results may vary and hope they do, but there's a painless fix if required.

    Yeah Pete that saddle style and your stretch don't pair up well.

    Rick C.
     
  6. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    Thanks Pete. Very kind of you. I'll send you a personal message.

    Steve.
     
    PeteMcP and Tom from Rubicon like this.
  7. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    That was the same bike saddle I wanted Rick. The hair pin looks great and period correct. Myself, not being considered of light weight, I figured these springs may require replacing at some time.

    The Harley seat springs are a first rate tip in the correct direction. I'll look some up as a preemptive move. I have some not to fond memories of speeding down a steep hill as a kid and sliding off the back of the broken down seat onto the rear wheel of my bike that didn't have a fender.

    I'll leave you to imaging the results but they were as bad as you can imagine. The resulting damage and crash was the talk of the one horse town we lived in for weeks.

    It wouldn't have been as bad as it was if the local doctor hadn't been laughing so hard as he tried to repair the damage. It seems it was a first for him and quite entertaining.

    Steve.
     
  8. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Lol funny story Steve, but not so much then. However lessons learned through catastrophic failures of either ones judgement, equipment or both, stay with and remind us that we and the world around us are not perfect and all our activities need to be handled with care. Those with relatively little background in cycling, motorized or no, should take heed, then proceed with caution, and use what they learn from the lessons of others who were fortunate enough to pass their experience forward.

    The bobber "barrel" springs are what I used on my hybrid saddle modification, and rather short. The cycle shops know which ones the big boys ride. I'm certain the ones I have would work for one twice my weight and hold their shape. I used to buy them un-plated for custom jobs.

    The High roller saddle "bone crusher" is a robust saddle & well under a hundred bucks and straddled two centuries on various cycles including safety bicycles. These are a bit longer and wider than the ones discussed This is a bike I made for my daughter in law a few years back and I used a "springer post" for added comfort because there's no way she weighs enough to work these saddle springs.

    Rick C.
    Amanda's bike.jpg
     
    #3348 indian22, Mar 15, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  9. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    1,741
    Good luck with that prostate messager Steve, I got one similar from MBrebel and it was a pain in the #ss.
    I finally went with a Brookes mod190. screw adjustable tension was worth the $$$.
    Tom
     
  10. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    Tom, I'm laughing at your description of the pain area. What I should have mentioned is when I slid off the bike seat I was wearing a wet bathing suit that the tire removed to a lower position.

    Every time I tried to get back up on to the seat the now bunched up bathing suit would hit the underside of the seat preventing me from going any further and caused me to drop back onto the tire. Finally it jammed between the tire and the seat stays and the bike and I slid down the road for a few feet.

    It was first lesson in human nature because all my friends had to describe their view of the mishap as if I wasn't part of it.

    Steve.
     
  11. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    Thank you for the information, Rick. I'll give this seat a try out but given the laws here in Canada about I.C.E. driven bicycles it won't be driven much. I will take it to different local shows and depending on how the COVID-19 virus plays out between now and summer it will be at bike camp and in Vermont when I visit my son.

    This is why I'm building the electric tri car so it's legal here and I can ride it.

    Steve.
     
  12. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Yep copy that Steve. The Corona has definitely got our attention and is impacting lives dramatically. Planned activities are all up in the air for who knows how long.

    Soldier on with what we can do in place, right now & I'd say coming into Spring we've all plenty to attend to right where we're at. I'm trying to view it as an opportunity to take care of several things I've been putting off rather than as a road block to my extended plans.

    On top of that we've a grand hobby to occupy ourselves with and not endanger others with our direct contact, this forum is a great vehicle and community to keep in contact and help alleviate the isolation experience that seems indicated by the nature of COVID-19.

    Your E-tri-car should greatly benefit from your current build and the selection of electric motor as power. So many problems encountered in building using an IC engine are mitigated with the use of electric power and legal issues count, big time. Starting, drive train, clutching, controls, motor location etc. all simpler or eliminated with electric. The tri-car design itself solves one key concern of electrics and that's adequate space for battery and electronics storage and easy access to these critical components, while maintaining the vintage look of the build. You can also build as large a pack in a simple shape to fit under the chair and that's a designer blessing with the tri-car. Speed not important so reduction drive motor mid-drive or rear hub would are simple examples. Direct drive motor mid-drive with separate reduction gear or internal is another option. Transmission seems not necessary & overcomplicates, but still easily done.

    2KW & 48 v. configured 14series by 6parallel or 7p, lithium ion pack using high density LG or Samsung cells would be relatively inexpensive and yet yield really good amp hour numbers for stately speeds of 20 to 25 mph. Those speeds should yield very good acceleration to speed and efficient, continuous motor operation at those speeds.All this plus reliability and easy charging with house hold current.

    I think it a grand project Steve however you decide to build it!

    Rick C.
     
    #3352 indian22, Mar 16, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  13. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    1,741
    Steve, I don't to be a pain in the posterior.
    Butt are you ever going to redo your thread photos photocasket has?
    Just asking.
    Tom
     
    PeteMcP and indian22 like this.
  14. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    Photocasket, where you can check in but can't get out. Thank you, I needed a laugh lift.

    Just as soon as the tri car is on the ground and I can get some photos of it. Then I can get the photos back and go through them and sieve out the ones that best show what I did. The magneto should be in the next week and I get it in and see if the engine is finally going to run.

    I think with the current photos there are close to a 1,000 of them.

    Steve.
     
    #3354 fasteddy, Mar 17, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  15. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    The virus worries me Rick. My lungs are "compromised" as the doctors describe it. In more colourful terms I'm "F'd" if I get pneumonia again. I've had it twice and bronchitis a few times plus a lung infection on it's own. Good thing I didn't smoke.

    Climbing a flight of stairs has me wheezing like a steam engine with a bad boiler.

    I'm tossing the idea of a hub motor around. I want to build an engine to house the mid motor just to see if I can do it and then decide which one I want to use. I'm planning to make a run to the metal supply next week. We have a stretch of decent weather coming and I want to make use of it.

    Finishing the tri car has to come first or I'll be off on something else and it will just sit.

    Steve.
     
  16. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    I hear you brother I've had the same issues in my health history. I did take the pneumonia shot last Fall along with flu, but don't want to test the adequacy of either. Old guys are kinda' screwed with this stuff so I'm staying out of public as much as possible and much is possible in my case. My Son's family all came down with flu last week really high fever, but tested neg. on COVID-19 so the regular flu types are still very much in play. They are now recovered well, but are both able to work from home for the duration of this crap and keep the 2 year old with them, only child, so I count all as blessings.

    Finish tri-car & start motor case project, let me know if I can help. The second time around should be much simpler regardless if it's a twin or single cylinder and I don't care if yours is the second one that I'm referring to or someone elses. I'm into seeing things built & don't care who does the work. I'm happy to assist.

    Take care of yourself Steve.

    Rick C.
     
  17. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    We are both in trouble even with the regular flu if we get it give our health history. Our province {British Columbia} has shut down all schools K to 12 grade for the foreseeable future. If they don't open before the school year ends every student will graduate.

    Great to hear your son and his wife are healing well. Even more worrying with a 2 year old.

    Thank you for your offer of assistance and yes I do have a question. How thick is the steel you used for the fins?

    I'll see if the metal supply is open next week. A lot of businesses are closing down here. Like Seattle we are a sea port city and more vulnerable to the virus with ships from around the world coming in and the crews visiting the city.

    Interesting times indeed.

    Steve.
     
  18. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Our kids are out for Spring break but I don't expect they will be called back to classes this year.

    I'd think certain materials and components from small vendors might become hard to source and shipments quite erratic from certain hard hit areas. I doubt I'll try to source much for awhile till I see how things play out. USPS, UPS & FEDEX ground deliveries may work just fine, but International? I trust payment through PayPal, so I really don't fear losing money on any transaction they are a part of. So yeah I'll do some purchases along the way.

    I used 10 gauge steel, 1/8", on the fins. I liked the industrial look, (and actual) of weight it lends to the case, but it's really over kill. 12ga. or even 14ga. would look great. The plasma table I used is a big one with 200 amp plasma cutter so no problem cutting whatever thickness. Thickness might be a problem using a hobby cutter, not that they won't cut the material it 's just more cleanup involved. Water jet would be best tool to use for small runs, though my lead time would have gone from minutes to days or even weeks on a small job & really expensive for a one off experiment.

    Depending on how you form the crankcase housing. I'd suggest using the same gauge material for the main body of the case and side plates, if you use steel for these bits and go 14 gauge for all of it and use one 4' x 8' sheet of steel to cut everything at the same time. Should be less expensive that way using the plasma table. I already had enough sheet steel and aluminum sheet to use various thicknesses on my motor case.

    Another consideration on thickness is what you use to weld with. Thin sheet burns through pretty easy if ones not accustomed to working with it & 14gauge challenges many. Though I welded my case, bolt through is a better option for most and that would be my choice for doing future crankcases, at least in part.

    Rick C.

    Rick C.
     
    PeteMcP and Tom from Rubicon like this.
  19. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    Thank you, Rick. I have a 110v plasma cutter. I am planning to make a circle cutter guide. It goes through 1/8 steel fairly well with care. I anticipate some pretty good clean up but to have someone cut it out professionally would be out of the question. Vancouver isn't an inexpensive place to have that kind of work done.

    If that fails to yield a decent cut I'll use a sabre saw. It's not like I'm in a hurry or have some where better to go.

    I am considering some 5"-6" round steel tubing for the crank case. I have a head from the spare Jacobsen parts engine that I have that should work out well. I'll match the end plates to the tubing thickness. I'm thinking that small steel tubing welded side to side across the outside of the larger tubing would act as guides for the bolts and the end plates will have ears for the bolts to pass through to hold them in place.

    I'll work a jack shaft in there as well. There is a reasonable bit of room. Hopefully the metal supply will be open. A lot of businesses are closing or severely limiting the time that they are open.

    I will only purchase what I need if it's in the U.S. or Canada. We may be standing at the curb waiting for a long time for delivery if it's coming from overseas.

    One of my nieces stopped in at the local drug store and put her mom and dad and I on the list for a pneumonia shot. They are restricted to giving two shot a day due to the fact the vaccine is so limited. Thankfully it's a short list. It's free but what ever they would charge it's worth it.

    Steve.
     
  20. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Steve I understand the home shop method & it will take time and will work with the plasma cutter, but I'd use nothing heavier than 14 gauge. for the fins, much easier to fabricate , clean and look well when complete. A small wire welder with .030 flux wire will do well. Four short stitch weld's on the bottom of each fin will hold. Clean up as you proceed and cut an aluminum spacer plate to keep the fins perfectly parallel and uniform as you repeat the process till complete. Nothing wrong with using heavier material if you wish, less risk of burn through. Costs can be lowered by using drops, cutoffs that are available in sufficient quantity so do the math on each fin and piece required I used 3" tube, 2.5" would have been my choice if I took the time to source it. I used what I had. 5" fin diameter, cylinder tube length 6.5", crank case width 5" and 9" crankcase diameter but that doesn't include the shape required for the cylinder base plate ^ shape that' s up top. Your cylinder head or heads will ultimately dictate upper fin diameter and completed engine height. My dimension's yielded a motor height of 19", which I would hold to 14" maximum if using a standard size Sportsman frame with motor housed completely inside the loop. Also I'd also keep crankcase diameter at no more than 6" diameter, which would adequately fill up the loop with room for mounts and also allow a bit more room around the bottom bracket.

    The use of tubing and case bolt through case construction was my initial design plan and will absolutely work perfectly with fewer headaches involved and look great.

    My desire to build the F-style motor at 1 to 1 scale really complicated my build even with the custom measurements of the frame. Good news it's going to work and look as planned!

    My case is 5" wide, my design allows the motor to extend a bit on each side, so motor selection enters into this, but that's not for this post.

    I use a 3/4" jack shaft and it's over kill for sure, a half inch jack shaft would really save space in the case & 6" diameter case doesn't leave much room. Again another post required later.

    If you bind all the fins together, after initial cleanup, the edges can be more easily and uniformly finished, indexed and numbered as to assembly position & ordered from head down. Depending on cylinder design some fins may be of significant size and finished shape. If there is to be a push rod or more inside the fins pre drill the pilot hole or holes while you have the fins clamped together in a drill press to keep them straight, of course if you've an adequate drill press you can finish in the press as well or do them individually.

    Planning and setup helps, but shouldn't be a problem for you.

    Rick C.
     

Share This Page