Actually the opposite side of the pedal shaft was shown in the picture of Indian22's photo I re-posted in the above reply. Still maybe it could apply, but not sure.
Indian Tadpole
- Thread starter silverbear
- Start date
Of course I like my idea, but most impressive is MT's memory of that photo and it's location in my marathon thread...outstanding sir!
Steve one of my primary reasons to use idlers is my penchant of not wanting to ever move the engine for any reason except major rebuilds. The double tensioner might be serious overkill for the tri car though. I used the double setup first to act as a "step" idler to clear the frame, as I was forced to use a very small pedal sprocket to clear the engine; and a second spring loaded tensioner to regulate the chain tension and both idlers keep the pedal chain from wandering into the tire. All clearances were minimal and I thought it prudent to deal with it up front because as the chain and sprocket wear in the chain would have eaten the tire. That's the reason and perhaps the solution.
I'd suggest, if using new chain and sprocket, running the full link with tensioner. for break-in and then go to a half link if the look of the tensioner is objectionable a half pin should be gained due to wear. MT's observation is also correct on going to a slightly smaller tooth sprocket on the rear or front is possible. The aluminum sprockets wear in sooner.
If you've an old drive chain of an appropriate length and size and or a worn in sprocket of similar tooth count you might be in business without using the tensioner.
You know I favor the use of well installed tensioners on my bikes, as I've expressed my views in several posts, though some disagree, but if it gets the tri car rolling it might be worth a shot.
I hope that MT's suggestions or my own are helpful.
Rick C.
Steve one of my primary reasons to use idlers is my penchant of not wanting to ever move the engine for any reason except major rebuilds. The double tensioner might be serious overkill for the tri car though. I used the double setup first to act as a "step" idler to clear the frame, as I was forced to use a very small pedal sprocket to clear the engine; and a second spring loaded tensioner to regulate the chain tension and both idlers keep the pedal chain from wandering into the tire. All clearances were minimal and I thought it prudent to deal with it up front because as the chain and sprocket wear in the chain would have eaten the tire. That's the reason and perhaps the solution.
I'd suggest, if using new chain and sprocket, running the full link with tensioner. for break-in and then go to a half link if the look of the tensioner is objectionable a half pin should be gained due to wear. MT's observation is also correct on going to a slightly smaller tooth sprocket on the rear or front is possible. The aluminum sprockets wear in sooner.
If you've an old drive chain of an appropriate length and size and or a worn in sprocket of similar tooth count you might be in business without using the tensioner.
You know I favor the use of well installed tensioners on my bikes, as I've expressed my views in several posts, though some disagree, but if it gets the tri car rolling it might be worth a shot.
I hope that MT's suggestions or my own are helpful.
Rick C.
MT, sage advise. Where were you last year? 
Jeff Wolf advised m to use an idler.
Tom from Rubicon
Jeff Wolf advised m to use an idler.
Tom from Rubicon
Any chance Steve, you can just use a block of HDPE to nudge the chain in lieu of a idler? That was how my grandson's GoPed was set up.
Tom from Rubicon
Hi Fella's,
Thank you for all the great replies. I have an idler pulley installed. The problem is with a full link and a half extra the chain is very close to one another when the idler is tightened. Within maybe a couple of inches. I didn't take the camera out to the garage so I'll have to take photos tomorrow to show what I mean. I'm worried about the chain bouncing back and forth as it turns. This is because it has an link and a half it doesn't need. The idler pulley has a decent spring on it so it may dampen the chain whip but with no caster or camber built into the steering it remains to be seen just how fast top speed is before the ride turns into Mr. Toads Wild Ride.
Keep it between the ditches, may well take on a new sense of meaning and with a passenger in the front seat it may be even more exciting. For the two of us as well as any innocent pedestrians and bystanders..
I have a ten tooth sprocket on the engine and the sprocket on the clutch is custom fitted so it can't be changed easily or inexpensively. With a 3/4" shaft on the motor the 10 tooth sprocket is as small as they come. With a 5/8" shaft there is no problem. Faced with the perfect problem and no perfect answer.
To give you an idea of the amount of slack there is, the chain that is under the tensioner is almost vertical, with the diameter of the sprocket separating the two chains.
Steve
Thank you for all the great replies. I have an idler pulley installed. The problem is with a full link and a half extra the chain is very close to one another when the idler is tightened. Within maybe a couple of inches. I didn't take the camera out to the garage so I'll have to take photos tomorrow to show what I mean. I'm worried about the chain bouncing back and forth as it turns. This is because it has an link and a half it doesn't need. The idler pulley has a decent spring on it so it may dampen the chain whip but with no caster or camber built into the steering it remains to be seen just how fast top speed is before the ride turns into Mr. Toads Wild Ride.
Keep it between the ditches, may well take on a new sense of meaning and with a passenger in the front seat it may be even more exciting. For the two of us as well as any innocent pedestrians and bystanders..
I have a ten tooth sprocket on the engine and the sprocket on the clutch is custom fitted so it can't be changed easily or inexpensively. With a 3/4" shaft on the motor the 10 tooth sprocket is as small as they come. With a 5/8" shaft there is no problem. Faced with the perfect problem and no perfect answer.
To give you an idea of the amount of slack there is, the chain that is under the tensioner is almost vertical, with the diameter of the sprocket separating the two chains.
Steve
Attachments
But with no caster or camber built into the steering it remains to be seen just how fast top speed is before the ride turns into Mr. Toads Wild Ride.
Steering dampener is not included? Enough said, let the steering experts chime in. Steve, the best to you.
Tom from Rubicon
Steering dampener is not included? Enough said, let the steering experts chime in. Steve, the best to you.
Tom from Rubicon
Hi Tom,
Years ago an old friend of mine and I were removing ourselves from an unfortunate incident when we were met with a constable from the Ontario Provincial Police who, as we both peered out where a windshield had previously resided, asked if we planned not to live as long as The Good Lord had provided. It has at times over the following years been hard to fulfill the allotted time due to incomplete planning.
I just ordered a steering damper. Hadn't thought about one until you mentioned it.
Thank you.
Steve.
Years ago an old friend of mine and I were removing ourselves from an unfortunate incident when we were met with a constable from the Ontario Provincial Police who, as we both peered out where a windshield had previously resided, asked if we planned not to live as long as The Good Lord had provided. It has at times over the following years been hard to fulfill the allotted time due to incomplete planning.
I just ordered a steering damper. Hadn't thought about one until you mentioned it.
Thank you.
Steve.
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As we both peered out where a windshield had previously resided.
Love it! Reminds me of a line from the Moody Blues.
Steering dampeners have been on my mind.
Dolan has them on his Bonneville bikes.
Last Summer on just one road at near top speed I was getting some strange handling. Which only ceased after I halved my speed. Never occurred on any other roads.
My R80/7 BMW has a friction dampener that is affective.
Let us know how in living color how the dampener makes it's way into the build.
Tom from Rubicon
Love it! Reminds me of a line from the Moody Blues.
Steering dampeners have been on my mind.
Dolan has them on his Bonneville bikes.
Last Summer on just one road at near top speed I was getting some strange handling. Which only ceased after I halved my speed. Never occurred on any other roads.
My R80/7 BMW has a friction dampener that is affective.
Let us know how in living color how the dampener makes it's way into the build.
Tom from Rubicon
Hi Tom,
I believe I can mount a steering damper from the tube running from the front axle back to where it's mounted on the bottom bracket and then to the tie rod. The steering may be great but I always plan for the worst and I'm rarely disappointed.
There will be photos.
And how did two handsome fella's in their early 20's wind up talking to a police officer through a windowless front window on a marvelous early May afternoon? Brand new tire, one of four, on the right front blew out it's sidewall and we went into the soft earth at 60mph. Car flipped over on it's roof and slid.
Terrible end to a mint 1954 ford 2 door with just over 43,000 on it. The insurance company took care of me but took issue with my friends speeding tickets so decided that they would delay settling with him. Large mistake since one of his uncle's was a Bay Street lawyer who owned a very large law firm. Bay Street is Canada's Wall Street.
He had the tire sent to a lab who specialized in things like tire damage and by the time he was through shaking out the tire company and the insurance company my friend did quite well and I was include just because his uncle wanted to make it really hurt.
One of the few times we weren't the authors of our own misfortune.
Steve.
I believe I can mount a steering damper from the tube running from the front axle back to where it's mounted on the bottom bracket and then to the tie rod. The steering may be great but I always plan for the worst and I'm rarely disappointed.
There will be photos.
And how did two handsome fella's in their early 20's wind up talking to a police officer through a windowless front window on a marvelous early May afternoon? Brand new tire, one of four, on the right front blew out it's sidewall and we went into the soft earth at 60mph. Car flipped over on it's roof and slid.
Terrible end to a mint 1954 ford 2 door with just over 43,000 on it. The insurance company took care of me but took issue with my friends speeding tickets so decided that they would delay settling with him. Large mistake since one of his uncle's was a Bay Street lawyer who owned a very large law firm. Bay Street is Canada's Wall Street.
He had the tire sent to a lab who specialized in things like tire damage and by the time he was through shaking out the tire company and the insurance company my friend did quite well and I was include just because his uncle wanted to make it really hurt.
One of the few times we weren't the authors of our own misfortune.
Steve.
Chain is on. I will include photos of our patent pending chain stretcher but must warn everyone that any attempt to duplicate it will be met with vigorous resistance by our law firm, Wee, Gottum and Goode.
Everything needs to be taken apart and painted and the band around the clutch that has the clutch arm welded to it needs to have a hole drilled and threaded into it so it can have bolt installed can't move.
Clutch seems to disengage well.
A few steps closer.
Steve.
Everything needs to be taken apart and painted and the band around the clutch that has the clutch arm welded to it needs to have a hole drilled and threaded into it so it can have bolt installed can't move.
Clutch seems to disengage well.
A few steps closer.
Steve.
Glad the chain's on guessing you didn't have an old chain of proper size to cut to length.
Dampers really reduce "death wobble" on steering that won't behave. I've had factory bikes of the same year and model & one will display the shakes at speed & the other behaves just fine, a damper has always settled the problem on bikes, but lifted off road trucks typically require more refinement to settle the shakes at speed. Straight line speed shouldn't be a steering problem with the tri-car.
Tom noted that Pat uses them on his racers and I might be mistaken, but I seem to recall that his decision to damp was due to a salt flat timing association safety regulation for his class and perhaps all motorcycle classes. I relate this because some might think and incorrectly say his steering geometry was poorly laid out and that conclusion shouldn't necessarily follow. His street bikes road well at speed without damping or his clients would be screaming bloody heck on this forum!
When I used a double spring, Monark style fork on my, stretched wheelbase Simplex, it really required a damper, but when I built the leaf style fork and replaced the Sunlite springer fork it rides out with no wobble at speed, on bumpy or smooth roadways, without damping. The nature of one off builds vs. production designs is that sometimes the steering geometry gets really hinky when mating the chosen parts with the weight distribution (including rider & engine) on a given wheelbase. My, less than complete, rule of thumb: short wheel base frames coupled with short positive trail or negative trail is inviting wobble though low speed response & manners will be really quick and fun .
Steve adding the damper is the right choice. Volkswagen dampers have been used on cycles etc. for decades.
Rick C.
Dampers really reduce "death wobble" on steering that won't behave. I've had factory bikes of the same year and model & one will display the shakes at speed & the other behaves just fine, a damper has always settled the problem on bikes, but lifted off road trucks typically require more refinement to settle the shakes at speed. Straight line speed shouldn't be a steering problem with the tri-car.
Tom noted that Pat uses them on his racers and I might be mistaken, but I seem to recall that his decision to damp was due to a salt flat timing association safety regulation for his class and perhaps all motorcycle classes. I relate this because some might think and incorrectly say his steering geometry was poorly laid out and that conclusion shouldn't necessarily follow. His street bikes road well at speed without damping or his clients would be screaming bloody heck on this forum!
When I used a double spring, Monark style fork on my, stretched wheelbase Simplex, it really required a damper, but when I built the leaf style fork and replaced the Sunlite springer fork it rides out with no wobble at speed, on bumpy or smooth roadways, without damping. The nature of one off builds vs. production designs is that sometimes the steering geometry gets really hinky when mating the chosen parts with the weight distribution (including rider & engine) on a given wheelbase. My, less than complete, rule of thumb: short wheel base frames coupled with short positive trail or negative trail is inviting wobble though low speed response & manners will be really quick and fun .
Steve adding the damper is the right choice. Volkswagen dampers have been used on cycles etc. for decades.
Rick C.
When you get this one to a "finished stage" you need to make a "brother" for it. Here is a suggestion, just add an engine. https://www.facebook.com/SideCarBicycles/photos/rpp.205115666287144/1512382685560429/?type=3&theater
I can confirm that all Land Speed bikes are required to have dampeners. Probably a good idea.
The big joke around the pits is the only reason we put brakes on them is to pass tech! They're no help at all.
Hi Rick,
I was sitting here last night and thought about the travel on the shock I ordered. Just under 4" so I have doubts that it will work. I do have plans for it in another build if I get to it. It need be I'll get a VW steering shock.
No used chain unfortunately. The tri car won't get used much anyway. Motor is illegal here in Canada and although where I live we may see a police officer once every two years with my luck as soon as I pull out of the driveway one of them will turn down our street. I'll use it in the U.S. and at car shows.
The electric tri car is legal here and will have the wheels run off it. As much of next week as I can use will be spent on the tri car. We have about three more days of dry weather and then the spring monsoon season will open up for a number of weeks.
If I get the tri car done I'll work on the other one if it's raining.
Steve.
I was sitting here last night and thought about the travel on the shock I ordered. Just under 4" so I have doubts that it will work. I do have plans for it in another build if I get to it. It need be I'll get a VW steering shock.
No used chain unfortunately. The tri car won't get used much anyway. Motor is illegal here in Canada and although where I live we may see a police officer once every two years with my luck as soon as I pull out of the driveway one of them will turn down our street. I'll use it in the U.S. and at car shows.
The electric tri car is legal here and will have the wheels run off it. As much of next week as I can use will be spent on the tri car. We have about three more days of dry weather and then the spring monsoon season will open up for a number of weeks.
If I get the tri car done I'll work on the other one if it's raining.
Steve.
Hi dogcatcher,
Thank you for sending that one my way. I saw the wicker sidecar yesterday and left a note asking about the wicker chair. Must have been custom made for the bike. I do have a sidecar setup based on one of Pat's bike frames and tanks planned if I can get to it.
No more custom frame work if I can help it. With Pat's engine mount and drive set up and his tank and frame it should go together quickly. I have a Predator engine on the shelf waiting it's turn.
I just went back to look at it using your link and realized that the sidecar is on the left so it was made in the U.K. They have a number of talented wicker makers there.
Steve.
Thank you for sending that one my way. I saw the wicker sidecar yesterday and left a note asking about the wicker chair. Must have been custom made for the bike. I do have a sidecar setup based on one of Pat's bike frames and tanks planned if I can get to it.
No more custom frame work if I can help it. With Pat's engine mount and drive set up and his tank and frame it should go together quickly. I have a Predator engine on the shelf waiting it's turn.
I just went back to look at it using your link and realized that the sidecar is on the left so it was made in the U.K. They have a number of talented wicker makers there.
Steve.
Hi FOG,
Thank you for stopping by. Brakes on a rocket ship. Just there for decoration and to make someone else feel good..
Steve.
Thank you for stopping by. Brakes on a rocket ship. Just there for decoration and to make someone else feel good..
Steve.
Here's the bike I used to ride at a local Bonneville affiliated lakebed.
My personal best was 99mph but we eventually caught a gust of wind at the right time and Lance hit 102. The class record is 118mph but when ya start with a 1973 Yamaha 175 Enduro that's not gonna happen. Still fun tho.
My personal best was 99mph but we eventually caught a gust of wind at the right time and Lance hit 102. The class record is 118mph but when ya start with a 1973 Yamaha 175 Enduro that's not gonna happen. Still fun tho.
Hey FOG nice bike & thumbs up for running with the big boys. I appreciate your input!
Steve I was afraid you might have ordered a motorcycle damper & turning radius would be gigantic, as I feature it, mounted on the tri car... good news is the automotive ones are relatively inexpensive & VW knockoffs are plentiful, but certainly not the only option available.
Rick C.
Steve I was afraid you might have ordered a motorcycle damper & turning radius would be gigantic, as I feature it, mounted on the tri car... good news is the automotive ones are relatively inexpensive & VW knockoffs are plentiful, but certainly not the only option available.
Rick C.
Photo was taken in 1911 in Victoria, British Columbia. Victoria is the capital of British Columbia and on Vancouver Island. The young man is Chellis "Chic" Galer.
I can't help but wonder if he survived the H*ll that would be WW1 that opened up three years later.
Steve.
https://archives.victoria.ca/upload...066ecfddabfd44440deea71c34aff8/M05731_141.jpg
I can't help but wonder if he survived the H*ll that would be WW1 that opened up three years later.
Steve.
https://archives.victoria.ca/upload...066ecfddabfd44440deea71c34aff8/M05731_141.jpg