In frame Predator fricton drive build

[happyvalley]

Kinda heavy at 80 lbs wet, according to my rusty old bathroom scale, but with the engine in the frame, the weight is un noticable and balance and handeling are excellent.

Only time I notice the xtra weight is when loading it in my truck.

The 99cc engine takes care of that extra weight real good.

You've used an innovative DIY approach and I certainly applaud you, that and being able to get it all in the frame. As the bikes get heavier though going with a bigger engine, which weighs more adds more weight, the bike weighs more etc. so forth and so on.

It's heavier than I like for a number of reasons. Of the MBs I have the heaviest is 50 lbs and the lightest 42 lbs. I wonder it the pulley reduction could be pared down and made to work with a smaller, lighter 4 stroke?

 

[wayne z]

Yes, The weight could be reduced prolly 10 to 15 lbs with lghter componets.

That cast iron BGF clamp on mount weighs about 7 lbs. Maybe billet aluminum clamps and mount plate would save a few pounds.

Can use chromoly tube for jackshaft, and a "C shaped bent aluminum plate for a bearing mount with snap ring bearings. few pounds saved there.

Use billet aluminum fricton pulley, with lightning holes and a knurled steel sleeve. Maybe 2 lbs saved there.

Get rid of my custom solid steel seat post . Nother Lb or so there.

Take off my front wheel mounted kickstand, 1 -2 lb?

I still need to remove the 56t sprocket and rag joint. 2 -3 lb?

Sounds like a lotta work tho, I would rather just ride for now LOL.

Change to a 49cc HS and save maybe 7 lbs or so?

Just turned over 200 miles on the odometer of this build, 100 miles on the new roller and manual clutch. No probs at all. Mucho fun though.

The new mod for on the fly roller control, works excellent .

 

[wayne z]

Hi All, it was raining today, and I wanted to try the new adjustable roller out.
Was tired of the tire and roller throwing gunk all over the back of the motor, so i fabbed a mudguard in there.
Also made a minimal heat shield for the exhaust from a large stainless welding rod.
The on the fly adjustment works real good. 1 or 2 turns either way to keep up with changing wet conditons.

At 1/4" deflection it was moderatly hard to make the roller slip in the rainy conditons.
At 5/16 deflection, it was hard to make the wet roller slip. Had to snap the throttle hard to get some slip.
I started from 10 mph and accellerated to 28 mph on the long steep hill on my road!
I love this thing.
I sure don't miss that ol noisy greasy chain.
Havin trouble with bandwidth, post new pix later

 

[wayne z]

OK, heere is 2 of the pix

 

[wayne z]

And the other two

[/ATTACH]

 

[Dan]

I know I said it before but man that is cool looking. Really, really like the mechanical look (for lack of a better way to say that) Is not steam-punk or any thing like that. Just old world utilitarian or some thing.

How ever it could be properly worded, she just looks awesome.

 

[wayne z]

Hey thanks Dan. It is just an ol rat bike I picked up cheap. Been using it to test different engine kits and a few FD projects. I'm very happy with it's looks now too.

I am even happier with it's performance , Fast, smooth, quiet and reliable.
The manual clutch is awesome too. Nice to be totaly in control of the drive train when you want to drive slow.

 

[wayne z]

I'm getting inspired to do this one for my next in frame fricton project. The Briggs engine will look good with it's junk on the front, sorta like a Cushman. Prolly run cooler too. Plus, I already have several of them.




The briggs also has way better pedal sprocket clearence with the mount on the seat tube instead of the base tube with the Predator.

Got room for a much larger in dia and width, fricton wheel on the OC, too.

I gotta stop ridin the first in frame build to have time to do it though.

 

[wayne z]

Ok, seems that I don't have any more bugs to work out o the Predator fricton build.
I've been wanting to put a guard or cover over the pullies. But I like Dan, like the mechanical "open primary" look, and have been reluctant to cover them up. Had to be done though. Also took off the cylinder tin, looks a lot better.

Here's what I came up with outta my scrap pile.

 

[rustycase]

LOL

Plexiglass Ha! Ha!

NOW you're show-boating, Wayne!



I was gonna suggest expanded metal, but the plastic looks real nice.
...maybe you could do some bead blasting and etch a pattern into the backside?
or engraving...

Anyhow, good pic of the mechanicals... have you got any more of your newest mod for adjustment on the fly?

I'm working the bugs out of my little ht skyhawk, now, but am eyeballing the frames and motors piled up to fab a friction drive similar to yours.
I'll need to use a briggs, but otherwise all I need to do is resolve the jackshaft configuration. I'd like to try using the BB out of a mtn bike. Got plenty of em around here and can't spring for pillow block bearings anytime soon.
...they already come with a shaft!

Have you got one of those handy-dandy wallyworld odometers on your bike, Wayne? How many miles you got on it now?

Maybe time to plan a road trip???

Best
rc

 

[wayne z]

Hey RC, thanks. I'm gonna make some others with different interesting shapes.

Yea I got the on the fly roller presuire adj worked out real well. Turn the thumbscrew under the seat 2 turns either way to meet all different weather conditons. 5 turns to totaly dis-engage the roller for pedaling long distance.
All 'splained in detail some posts back with pics.

I got a $15 analog speedo from Pirate. The speed is way off but the odo is good. At 38mph on my Hall wind meter, it sez 45mph.
Just turned over 275 miles without ANY probs, and a whole lotta fun.

The HT's just ain't as much fun for me anymore after this!

Briggs will look good turned around with the carb and exh. to the front. Just like Cushman scooter engines.
Try to get some seald bearings to fit your BB, soon as you can, they don't cost much.

 

[happycheapskate]

I really like the t-shaped seatpost. That is very elegant. Where did you get that, or did you create it?

I do not quite understand how your system works. is the belt pulling the roller against the tire, or is a spring pulling it? Does the same spring pull down on the idler pulley and the tire roller? Is that why a thumb screw is necessary?

Re: Pirate speedo. Have you tested it against a cyclocomputer with an accurate tire measurement , or used a car to gauge speed? I think a wind meter could be strongly affected by drag or wind when testing from a moving object.

 

[happycheapskate]

Cannonball2, I really like that bike? What yr/model is it? (schwinn I think you said).

I really like the welded arm and large chain idler you put on for the HT cog! Way to go. That ought to hold up for years. I had planned to use a similar pulley wedged between the upper and lower run of chain, tensioned near the gear case.

Did you make your own gas tank on the Schwinn? That is really good looking.
Your post: http://motorbicycling.com/f36/frame-predator-fricton-drive-build-30738-4.html#post299191

 

[wayne z]

Hey HC, The seatpost is my own creation. The curved part is the footlever from a Honda centerstand.

The fricton roller is in a fixed positon and the thumbscrew moves the roller for more or less pressure against the tire.

The idler roller is to tighten the belt and take off.

The cheapo speedo is WaY off, bout 7 mph fast, but the odo is pretty close.

The wind meter i'm using is a Hall Bros airspeed indicator. Robbed it from my ultralight. They have been used by hanggliders and ultralights for many years.
They are known to be quite accurate. when mounted correctly. Hence the long mount tube to stay in undisturbed air.

Since it measures airspeed not groundspeed, I check it in calm wind if I want to know accurate speeds.
First chance that I get, I do want to check it against something else.

 

[cannonball2]

Cannonball2, I really like that bike? What yr/model is it? (schwinn I think you said).

I really like the welded arm and large chain idler you put on for the HT cog! Way to go. That ought to hold up for years. I had planned to use a similar pulley wedged between the upper and lower run of chain, tensioned near the gear case.

Did you make your own gas tank on the Schwinn? That is really good looking.
Your post: http://motorbicycling.com/f36/frame-predator-fricton-drive-build-30738-4.html#post299191

Thanks! Not to hi jack Waynes thread, but answer your question, the bike was an old Western Flyer. It has now been cut up for my recumbent build. I made the fuel tank from a piece of ovaled 3" exhaust tube, it is collecting dust in the corner now. I find flat idlers work well on chains, mabye slightly noisy, but trouble free.

 

[happycheapskate]

Thanks for the information, Wayne and Cannonball. I really like this board. I have learned so much here, and like sharing things I have discovered too (like putting a HT type carb on a tiller motor for pusher trailers)

I really like friction drive systems for mbs (fan of velosolex type also), so this thread caught my attention. I think it looks pretty good.

Since bike tires are still cheap ($10-20) this design makes the most sense to me.

I am happier about the happytimes though since finding out about improved tensioners. Otherwise I probably would not have gotten in this hobby (would have sold off my HT and given up).

 

[wayne z]

Hey all, here's my new idea to improve my belt clutch. Gonna try to make it a 2 speed by adding another set of idler and sheaves.
Got an idea for a lever and linkage that will pick up the primary idler when the secondary is dropped. Might even be able to get it to automaticly shift from the jerk in the drive train when the throttle is chopped. Stay tuned...

 

[happycheapskate]

Very interesting. 2 speeds ought to be well enough.

 

[wayne z]

OK, I got mt 2 speed tranny working and tried it out just before dark. Still needs some tweaking, but it works pretty good.
Now I can let the clutch right out and accellerate to about20mph and shift to high. No slipping and squealing and feathering the clutch lever up to 15mph like before.
Still needs some refinement though, Gotta get another TSC flanged idler to keep the hi belt on, and I need to work out good belt support for either disengaged belt to minimize pulley contact.

When the lever is pushed foreward, It cams the low gear idler up and is locked in positon from being pulled over center with the clutch spring tension.

This thing has possibilities! Can also be adapted work for chain drives ect.

 

[rustycase]

Great work, Wayne!

EZ to see you are having lot's of fun.

I think it might be getting complicated.
...and if #1 ratio is good to 20mph, how fast will you be able to go in the top speed?

...just asking...
How fast do you really WANT to go on a bicycle?
It becomes a diminishing return as you exceed the vne for the safety equipment.

Question
How would you feel about a single belt with the idler take-up for clutch action, and the driven pulley being of the variable speed type?

Would that be worthy of experimentation?

Good luck
rc