Help. Can't get it running.

[rustycase]

I have a question...

Did you pull the spark plug after this flurry of attempts?

Was it wet, with gasoline?
It could be that the carb is flooding the engine.

Take off the air cleaner until you get it to at least run for a few minutes.
You should be able to see if the choke is closed, or if it is a richening circuit, if it has dumped a bunch of fuel in there and perhaps some may be coming back out.
They will always spit back a bit... we're looking to see if GOBS of gas might be puking back out the carb.

Yes, you should buy a spare plug or two... always have at least one spare on hand.

Don't worry about compression just yet... we'll presume it's good enough, for now.

You could have a faulty ground wire.
It could be hooked up incorrectly, or it could be grounded out.

There's threads here on those repairs and diagnosis.

You mentioned adjusting an idle screw that came to you being adjusted all the way out... and you screwed it in...

There's probably two methods of controlling the idle... an idle speed control where a screw meets up with a small ramp on the carb slide to set the height.
If you screwed that IN, without turning on the throttle and first raising the slide, you may have done damage to the slide.
If so, it should be inspected.

If you are referring to the idle mixture adjustment, it should be turned gently all the way in, then backed out approximately 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 turns for starters. Make further adjustments from that point once you get it running.

YMMV !
It would be good if you could post some pics so someone with the exact same setup could offer spot on advice. My advice is basically general... but cheep!

Best
rc

 

[Bobby S]

The spark plug is alittle wet but it isn't drenched.

I started the engine without the air filter and after it shut right away I did see some gas coming out.

I checked the cabr to make sure i didn't damage it with the idle screw. It was fine. I pulled the throttle and screwed it out a bit.

 

[rustycase]

From where I sit... LoL

Pull the plug, turn the gas OFF.

Go through a pedal start routine and clear out the engine of all residual fuel possibly loaded up in there. NOT a LOONG around the block thingy, just a few hundred feet... Gotta remember, your fuel/oil mix is your lubricant, right???

Insert the spark plug, NO CHOKE, and get r pedaling, release clutch and spin the engine, THEN turn on the gas and see what happens. Just abt 1/4 - 1/2 throttle should get you popping...

I'm trying to eliminate flooding here...

If this doesn't get you somewhere, we're going to need to consider an intermittent short in the ground wire. I HATE intermittent problems!

Good luck.
You have the patience of Job!
rc

 

[Bobby S]

Alright I get back to your tomorrow with the results. Thank you .

 

[Bobby S]

So i tested it sooner. I took out the spark plug ran it couple time till there was no visible fuel in the fuel tube. When I ran it the engine stayed on longer, it would run then slow down.

So then i put the spark plug back on turned on the fuel and turned the choke off. IT ran a little bit more, the engine was louder, but it started jerking as it slowed down.

??

 

[rustycase]

This is hard...

'jerking as it slowed down'

let's work on that part... Did it spit back through the carburetor?
As in a cough?

That could mean it's starving for fuel.

If the engine 'burbled' to deth.... it was flooding out.
What did the plug look like after it stopped?

OK, I gotta say the engine is probably cleared out quite well now...
That is to say, NOT a good idea to spin it any more without the fuel in the system, as I suggested earlier to clear it out. It NEEDS that fuel/oil mix for lubrication.

At this point, since you are initially getting it to pop and sputter, I think it's safe to assume you have effective spark. Never-the-less, as AL.Fisherman had said earlier, definitely change the plug! That's an EZ improvement.
There's whole threads here on the proper plug selection...
Since these engines are so small, you will need to learn about them.

A problem is frequently caused by a combination of bad actors, so to speak.
There is something wrong with the carb...

Pls don't get frustrated with the little machine...
Take a break!
Gosh, you are learning a lot!
Can you imagine all the mistgakes I have made over the years?
LoL I ain't even gonna fix that spelling error!

Welcome to the world of kit bikes!
and more so, to the magnificent china engines we all love so well !

Probably need to take that carb off the bike, dry it off and clean it out.
Or vice-versa...
Buncha little pieces that will be new to you, and you can not lose any of them!

Need to determine if the float and needle valve are adjusted properly and working well... it may be plugged or obstructed.

Then, you need to check if the jets, and pasages within the carb are clear.
Something could be wrong with the slide, from the manufacturer, or the needle in the slide could be bonkers, in some crazy way.

Again, I must say, a china engine is a crap shoot...
No telling what may be amiss on a brand new unit.

LoL I'm really hoping someone will come along with a different way of expressing their opinion so we can get this bike running well for you !

Is their a possibility of intake leaks?

Douse the intake manifold connection to cylinder, and the intake to carb connection with some thick soapy water and see if that makes a difference in a startup... it won't last long, but if it makes a difference, that would be an indication you need to take it apart and inspect gasket surfaces, and perhaps use some sealer on them???

...anyhow, deal with it manana! When you are fresh, and able to consider things one at a time.

Best
rc

Unfortunately, there is really no telling what may be defunct inside one of them. Some of the carb models and versions seem to be hated far and wide.

Oops! I goofed that line up... !

Can you give us the numbers off the carb so we can ID it?

 

[Al.Fisherman]

I have never worked on an engine before so I am still learning. Does it matter which NGK spark plug i get?? How do you check the compression?? And what is throttle body fluid and how to you do that?? I am sorry for ignorance... And great that means less things to buy.

There are a number of NGK plugs that are compatible. These come to mind... N.G.K. C6HSA, G6M, (B6HS I use this one). What ever plug is a replacement, be sure you check the "reach"..that's the distance just under the thread head to the bottom of the electrode.

To check the compression this is what you need.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/nasc...Z110700607202QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools maybe a friend might have one, or a shop will test it for you. I feel that this is one tool that is valuable to anyone working on these bikes..along with a torque wrench. If you don't have a high enough compression the plug can't ignite the fuel properly. I own to of then...one that I can screw into the plug hole and one that has a rubber tip that you force into the plug hole. What actually goes into the head.

Throttle body cleaner comes in a spray can that cleans throttle bodies in a car (like a carburetor). It acts like a starting fluid. I either use it or starting fluid. Either take the air filter off and spray a SHORT blast to start it. I use either one to start my bike. I don't want to stress the last 1/3 of my heart that I have. I drill a hole in the plastic, the can comes with a spray nozzle. I insert it into the hole and give it a quick squirt. I can start my bike in less distance then the length of my Yukon is long, what 16'?

 

[Bobby S]

Okay well If I take out the carb and the valve and the needle how do I know that it is adjusted properly?? I follow the manual and several tutorials... I don't exactly know what I would be doing wrong :/...

Also, is there a site you could refer me to to find out where the "intake manifold connection to cylinder, and the intake to carb connection " are??

 

[Al.Fisherman]

Okay well If I take out the carb and the valve and the needle how do I know that it is adjusted properly?? I follow the manual and several tutorials... I don't exactly know what I would be doing wrong :/...

Also, is there a site you could refer me to to find out where the "intake manifold connection to cylinder, and the intake to carb connection " are??

Instead of typing...I copied and pasted.

Have you tried an inline fuel filter? The tanks are nasty inside and a inline fuel filter will help.
Try some tooth paste or some very fine brass cleaner or even comet cleaner to polish the needle and set on the float needle seat. Small dab of polish in the seat insert the needle and spin
it clean it good then try it.
I put on a length of fuel line hold the carb upside down and put some pressure on the fuel line
by using your mouth. set the float on its fulcrum just the pressure of the float should stop the air from coming out. If it don't then yo may need to polish it some more.
I try to install the float with its seam towards the top. Also try to get the float to set level when holding it upside down for the height setting.

The intake (carburetor) port is in the back of the cylinder. The 2 studs fit only the intake manifold...that is where the carburetor hooks up. The two studs are closer together than the exhaust manifold (muffler) are.

Here is a photo taken from the back of my bike. See the intake manifold, without the carburetor installed. The arrow shows something else.
................

 

[Bobby S]

how can i check if the jets and passages are clear?? can i run water through it??

 

[Bobby S]

So that extension that connects to the carb is the intake manifold?? and the only thing i need to run soapy water through?? I just wanna make sure i get this right and I dont mess anything up.

 

[Al.Fisherman]

how can i check if the jets and passages are clear?? can i run water through it??

1 word.... NO..well you can but I wouldn't. I'd use Throttle body cleaner, sold at ALL auto parts stores, most likely also at ChinaMart (WalMart)

 

[Al.Fisherman]

So that extension that connects to the carb is the intake manifold?? YES and the only thing i need to run soapy water through?? NO I just wanna make sure i get this right and I dont mess anything up.

Like I said..throttle body cleaner..or even brake cleaner.

 

[Bobby S]

Okay thank you let you know my results.

 

[rustycase]

Seems like something got confused here...

Here's one of my suggestions from earlier, for diagnosis...


"Is their a possibility of intake leaks?

Douse the intake manifold connection to cylinder, and the intake to carb connection with some thick soapy water and see if that makes a difference in a startup... it won't last long, but if it makes a difference, that would be an indication you need to take it apart and inspect gasket surfaces, and perhaps use some sealer on them???"

That is NOT the same as this...

"So that extension that connects to the carb is the intake manifold?? and the only thing i need to run soapy water through?? I just wanna make sure i get this right and I dont mess anything up. "

Apparently, too much is getting lost in translation. Sry...
At this point I think if you follow my two cents worth, some sort of damage may occur.
I meant, Apply some of the liquid to the OUTSIDE.

I'm not sure what good 'throttle body cleaner' is going to do for the brand spanking new kit that has not gotten a chance to get gunked up yet.

However, ALf has far more experience on these kits than I do.

Bobby, I just noticed that you are in POMONA.
HUGE city by most standards! There's got to be many people there with motorcycles, karts, and probably MABs, too. It seems to me you could use just a bit of direct hands on assistance. Spend a little time at the shops in your area and ask a few questions to find who might be able to help you for a few minutes.

If you were out in the boonies, like many of us without local resources, I would suggest again that you read through the threads here under Bicycle Motors, MB trouble shooting; 2 stroke engines & kits; Norm's 2 stroke repair center; and MB mechanical components, intake and exhaust.
Read everything on carbs, and look at the pics to determine what might best apply to your situation.

Compression...
At this point, I should say just a bit about compression...
If you can feel the engine drag against forward motion when you release the clutch, you probably got enough compression to run.
...OR, the engine innards are one ball off jumbled up gritty parts!
What do YOU hear?

...Support the bike with the back wheel off the ground. Best to get someone to lend a hand holding it up on a milk crate, because tying it up with rope and stuff is a real pain...
Pull the plug out and turn the back wheel with your thumb over the sparkplug hole. You should NOT be able to hold your thumb over the hole when compression forces it off, AND, it should suck down on your thumb a but when the piston is on the downstroke.

THAT, is enough compression to start and run. perhaps not necessarily great, but enough to run.

Beyond that basic test gets into more complicated stuff you are not yet capable of. As you learn more, perhaps one day you might need a compression tester... just not now.

Good luck!
I'll watch your posts to see if there are any developments I can comment on with hopes of benefit.
rc

 

[DaveC]

Sometimes these motors are junk right from the factory. 2 out of the 3 motors I got would not run at all. The first 66cc was dead no matter what I did. I sent it back, just the motor. The replacement fired the first time. It ran until the magneto coil broke...

I got a 49cc to replace it. It was dead when it got here, too. That was it for me. Sold all my Chinee crap off and got a Morini off of eBay for $285 shipped and a pipe for $30.

If you got the motor from eBay start a dispute now and get the motor replaced. Your wasting your summer dealing with a problem you shouldn't have to.

 

[rustycase]

Unfortunately, DaveC sounds like the wise man, here.

The reasons he presented are why Bobby really needs to get a mentor to physically have a look at the little critter. It's small, handy, new, and clean... and FUN, too! Should not have any problem getting someone to look at it for a few minutes before making a strong decision. Most likely any landscaper or yard service guy in the neighborhood would be savvy enough to find an obvious flaw, if Bobby doesn't want to resort to 'professional' options.

When my ebay welder arrived with some probs, I immediately began a dispute through Paypal. They stopped payment. THAT got the vendor's attention.
A reason is required for dispute.
Mine was simple, as is Bobby's.

The item does not perform as represented in the advertisement within the ebay ad. It won't run.

Good luck!
rc

 

[josefredy]

definetly i think you are loosing compression,where the piston meets the spark. those four nuts need tightning or a seal has to be manifested.

 

[Bobby S]

Okay so I cleaned out the carb with throttle body and air intake cleaner and the engine runs a bit better but it still sputters then stops...

I dont know if it is a bad thing but at one point a blast of white smoke came from the exhaust... I made sure the engine had fuel so i dont know why that happened??...

I am going to try to tighten the 4 bolts on the top of the engine and see if that is the problem...

Hope something works... I am considering sending it back...

 

[rustycase]

Some white (oil) smoke from that motor, I would consider to be a good thing!

Have you changed the plug yet?
rc