WOW!! Thanks for the tip Rick! The Indian Tri-Car thread is amazing. I spent over an hour just going through the first 4 pages. Of course had to look at all the pictures. Love the old Indian motorcycles. This may be mentioned later in the thread but that Villiers engine sure reminds me of the old Maytag washing machine engines.
49cc's on a Schwinn
- Thread starter FOG
- Start date
Steve has done a great job and after 9 years is really at the point of starting his Indian Tri-car up! Really fun build that's been wonderful for many of us to watch develop.
Lot of really good old threads in the forums that are worth study by those who would learn and be entertained in the process.
Most of the early engines were very crude, agricultural affairs with a few architectural looking flourishes and minimal bright work details of brass, copper & nickel. Exhaust, Intake plumbing were basically just modified plumbing hardware. So drawing comparisons to household or industrial motors is quite fair. The Villiers engine was used on motorcycles and lawn mowers etc. worldwide even Indian used a single cylinder Villiers on one model, the K, for a single year,1916, of production. I like the Indians as well, but am not exclusionary in my appreciation of machines on two wheels.
Rick C.
Lot of really good old threads in the forums that are worth study by those who would learn and be entertained in the process.
Most of the early engines were very crude, agricultural affairs with a few architectural looking flourishes and minimal bright work details of brass, copper & nickel. Exhaust, Intake plumbing were basically just modified plumbing hardware. So drawing comparisons to household or industrial motors is quite fair. The Villiers engine was used on motorcycles and lawn mowers etc. worldwide even Indian used a single cylinder Villiers on one model, the K, for a single year,1916, of production. I like the Indians as well, but am not exclusionary in my appreciation of machines on two wheels.
Rick C.
I agree. In comparison my efforts aren't even on the same planet.
I got to pedal my old Schwinn again!
The tires showed up and my new Universal Bleed kit was up to the task of filling the rear brake and that was all I needed. Time to ride!
To tell the truth I didn't pedal very far. The reason I'm puttin' a motor on this thing is because with no gears it's just about useless for general transportation. It don't climb well. So I just went up and down the street a few times to check out the Chinese hydraulic discs and they seem fine. It stops.
I also discovered one of my typical mistakes when I went to mount the tires. Somehow I grabbed a pair of 26" tubes at the Wal-Mart awhile back without noticing they were for 1 3/8" tires.
Sometimes I wonder how I could have gotten this old and still be so dumb. But the little kid in me wanted to ride! So I stuck them skinny things in there anyway. There's a small wave in the sidewalls right at the valve stem which is no doubt due to the wrong size tube, but they're holding air at the moment. I'll fix it down the road.
So here it is. Back on it's wheels.
The tires showed up and my new Universal Bleed kit was up to the task of filling the rear brake and that was all I needed. Time to ride!
To tell the truth I didn't pedal very far.
The reason I'm puttin' a motor on this thing is because with no gears it's just about useless for general transportation. It don't climb well. So I just went up and down the street a few times to check out the Chinese hydraulic discs and they seem fine. It stops.I also discovered one of my typical mistakes when I went to mount the tires. Somehow I grabbed a pair of 26" tubes at the Wal-Mart awhile back without noticing they were for 1 3/8" tires.
Sometimes I wonder how I could have gotten this old and still be so dumb. But the little kid in me wanted to ride! So I stuck them skinny things in there anyway. There's a small wave in the sidewalls right at the valve stem which is no doubt due to the wrong size tube, but they're holding air at the moment. I'll fix it down the road.
So here it is. Back on it's wheels.
Plan A on my jackshaft is still looking like it'll work.
![DSCF0835[1].JPG](https://motorbicycling.com/data/attachments/92/92602-485b4e20f31f4e0e9958dbad9062685b.jpg "DSCF0835[1].JPG")
That's roughly horizontal with the crankshaft and the chain angle to the rear sprocket, (represented by the ruler), isn't too extreme. I was worried about that.
Lots of range to adjust. At least an inch. Got a lot more slot than I needed. It'll hit the tire before it ever reaches the end of that slot!
As usual I'll look at it for awhile before I break out with the welder.
That's roughly horizontal with the crankshaft and the chain angle to the rear sprocket, (represented by the ruler), isn't too extreme. I was worried about that.
Lots of range to adjust. At least an inch. Got a lot more slot than I needed. It'll hit the tire before it ever reaches the end of that slot!
As usual I'll look at it for awhile before I break out with the welder.
Did a little trimming on the housing and got started on a piece of stainless for a jackshaft. I coulda polished the housing, it's aluminum, but a quick hit with a soda blaster leaves a nice smooth uniform finish I'll call good enough. A soda blaster works good on carbs too. Any soft metal. They're like $20 at Harbor Freight and a bag of soda wasn't horrible either.
Since the pic I've pressed in the bearings, got it mounted back up, and we're looking at the chain line to the back wheel. I'm startin' to get itchy ...
Since the pic I've pressed in the bearings, got it mounted back up, and we're looking at the chain line to the back wheel. I'm startin' to get itchy ...
I got fussy with the chainline to the rear sprocket today. And I mean real fussy! At 1st I was just eyeballin' it, but it looked straight with the front sprocket in about 14 different places. Wasn't happy with that. I got this "need to know" thing goin' on.
Then I started looking to see if the teeth were meshing in the center of the chain. By using shims to accurately position the front sprocket on the jackshaft, and after a big spin of the wheel, I could reliably see if the teeth were rubbing on one side of the sprocket or the other. At .325 out from the housing there was daylight between the inner plates of the chain on both sides of the sprocket. As little as .020 either way will get a rub. It's straight.
My only concern now is there isn't a lot of room where the chain passes by the rear stays. 1/4" maybe? I got over a half inch clearance to the tire but moving the rear sprocket in at this point would mean a new sprocket carrier. That means a new chunk of stainless. 5" diameters are hard to find. They ain't cheap. Yada, yada ....
So whaddaya think guys? Is a 1/4" of clearance enough?
Then I started looking to see if the teeth were meshing in the center of the chain. By using shims to accurately position the front sprocket on the jackshaft, and after a big spin of the wheel, I could reliably see if the teeth were rubbing on one side of the sprocket or the other. At .325 out from the housing there was daylight between the inner plates of the chain on both sides of the sprocket. As little as .020 either way will get a rub. It's straight.
My only concern now is there isn't a lot of room where the chain passes by the rear stays. 1/4" maybe? I got over a half inch clearance to the tire but moving the rear sprocket in at this point would mean a new sprocket carrier. That means a new chunk of stainless. 5" diameters are hard to find. They ain't cheap. Yada, yada ....
So whaddaya think guys? Is a 1/4" of clearance enough?
Then I started looking to see if the teeth were meshing in the center of the chain.
FOG, after quite literally chewing up several 7075 sprockets first time around and asking Pat Dolan for spares. Pat asked me if I used a straight edge from sprocket to sprocket to verify alignment. I didn't, I did it by "rack of eye" which is close but the Lufkin 24" rule proved otherwise. Then as I have documented in the machine shop thread. all sprockets are steel except the wheel sprocket. Right now my chain deviation is .015" at worst.
Tom
FOG, after quite literally chewing up several 7075 sprockets first time around and asking Pat Dolan for spares. Pat asked me if I used a straight edge from sprocket to sprocket to verify alignment. I didn't, I did it by "rack of eye" which is close but the Lufkin 24" rule proved otherwise. Then as I have documented in the machine shop thread. all sprockets are steel except the wheel sprocket. Right now my chain deviation is .015" at worst.
Tom
I learned from past builds here to use the straight edge, all except my snowblower. LOL Had to rebuild the drive on it this fall, it was off, wearing on one side of the sprocket. put on new bearings,belt pulley, chain, new chain, rest was good. #40 chain so plenty of teeth left. Learned again.........Curt
Did a double check with a piece of 1 x 1/4 1018 cold roll steel for a straight edge and we're good. With a .325 spacer between the front sprocket and the bearing in the housing the chain's not only straight ... it's centered. The sprocket makes contact with the rollers in the chain and nothing else. No rubbing.
What's more likely is a buncha chain rash from contact with the rear stays!
Hard to find a good angle to show the clearance but here's some pics.
![DSCF0838[1].JPG](https://motorbicycling.com/data/attachments/92/92681-0f619905d25cbe2afcd2bdcd2cc09b89.jpg "DSCF0838[1].JPG")
![DSCF0839[1].JPG](https://motorbicycling.com/data/attachments/92/92682-86094fa54a53528c0087d78c74e8beb4.jpg "DSCF0839[1].JPG")
What's more likely is a buncha chain rash from contact with the rear stays!
Hard to find a good angle to show the clearance but here's some pics.
Attachments
![DSCF0841[1].JPG](/data/attachments/92/92683-ade6b7693ee6eae1ae13e7b9c4449c6f.jpg)
you can spread the frame some, if needed. Get a small block Chevy manifold spreader........Curt
I got a lotta tools, but a straightedge isn't among them! That piece of cold roll was the best I could do .....
The sprocket is from JT Sprockets. It's one of their JTR239 series. C49 high carbon steel. Available sizes from 35 to 50T. HUGE catalog to pick from.
http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/
My potential for chain rash went up today when my feeble brain realized I've been looking at this with the axle adjusted all the way back. That's the best case scenario.
With the axle all the way forward, which is worst case, clearance to the seat stay is less than 3/16". I gotta think that's too tight.
I think I'm gonna shave an 1/8" off the carrier. Where the sprocket bolts on is a 1/4" thick and it ain't like I'm puttin' a Harley motor on this thing! Leaving that section an 1/8" thick should be just fine.
That of course leads to the next problem which is one I'm sure Tom knows about. It's the process ...
When I made the carrier I did almost all of the work with it mounted on an arbor. The last thing I did was grab it by the outside to open up the center to fit the bike hub, which means it ain't gonna fit on that little arbor no more!
But all that means is finding a piece of metal big enough to make a 1.25" arbor. And then I can shave an 1/8" off.
The sprocket is from JT Sprockets. It's one of their JTR239 series. C49 high carbon steel. Available sizes from 35 to 50T. HUGE catalog to pick from.
http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/
My potential for chain rash went up today when my feeble brain realized I've been looking at this with the axle adjusted all the way back. That's the best case scenario.
With the axle all the way forward, which is worst case, clearance to the seat stay is less than 3/16". I gotta think that's too tight.
I think I'm gonna shave an 1/8" off the carrier. Where the sprocket bolts on is a 1/4" thick and it ain't like I'm puttin' a Harley motor on this thing! Leaving that section an 1/8" thick should be just fine.
That of course leads to the next problem which is one I'm sure Tom knows about. It's the process ...
When I made the carrier I did almost all of the work with it mounted on an arbor. The last thing I did was grab it by the outside to open up the center to fit the bike hub, which means it ain't gonna fit on that little arbor no more!
But all that means is finding a piece of metal big enough to make a 1.25" arbor. And then I can shave an 1/8" off.
You are doing fine FOG, as you indicate, I too have had pleasure / frustration of managing clearances and alignment. But we all have.
Thanks for posting the link to JT Sprockets, I can see one in my future for sure.
Tom
Thanks for posting the link to JT Sprockets, I can see one in my future for sure.
Tom
Somewhere thru the years hex head bolts started coming with some sort of coded information on top of the head. No doubt due to some sort of legal requirements, but nobody asked me if this was OK and I don't like 'em! So I cut 'em off.
![DSCF0843[1].JPG](https://motorbicycling.com/attachments/dscf0843-1-jpg.103153/)
I use stainless so they won't rust and it sure makes the hardware look better. Altho only a nut like me would even think about things like this.
Had to make the washers too. Standard 3/8 washers are about 1" in dia. and now that I recessed the sprocket for better chain alignment that wasn't gonna work. For some reason I have yet to fathom I couldn't get them flat tho. I was shootin' for .090 thick but they're .095 here and .086 there. I dunno. They'll still work. If you guys don't tell anybody I won't ....
I use stainless so they won't rust and it sure makes the hardware look better. Altho only a nut like me would even think about things like this.
Had to make the washers too. Standard 3/8 washers are about 1" in dia. and now that I recessed the sprocket for better chain alignment that wasn't gonna work. For some reason I have yet to fathom I couldn't get them flat tho. I was shootin' for .090 thick but they're .095 here and .086 there. I dunno. They'll still work. If you guys don't tell anybody I won't ....