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Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by jmr3394, Jun 13, 2010.
I don't know much about 4 strokes, but why are they better for comfort and distance?
The "comfort" was mostly a reference to the style of build I'm considering, tho as a four stroke is typically quieter (depends greatly on exhaust system) and is prone to less vibration (generally lower RPM use), there's a greater potential for general "comfort" - but I do feel the need to point out that a two stroke can achieve similar results if the build is planned with that in mind (proper silencer & gearing).
Distance... well, although I'll be the first to defend the much maligned 2smoker - it's also true that sustained, high RPM use isn't it's forté, if we're talking about wide open throttle for hours there's the potential for excessive wear and overheating. They're particularly well suited for sprints, like heavy traffic or off roading - dirtbikes are a good example.
The four stroke is a better candidate for say highway use, where acceleration isn't as much the concern (or even weight), but reduced wear and engine cooling at those sustained speeds is, but displacement vs displacement, pound for pound - you'll sacrifice some power for that *shrug* It's all a trade off
Again though - I'm not trying to infer that either is inferior, simply that there's tools that are more appropriate for specific applications.
I'm just really wondering here how you can actually think that 2-stokes rule??? Other than a 2-stroke winning the Deathrace this year, I can think of none. The AMA Supercross and the AMA motocross series....tell me how they ruled there? Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, KTM and Husqvarna, what type of engines are they building and RACING and winning with now? 4-strokes dominated, no dispute!
It's all coming down to 4-strokes and a lot of it is because of the State you live in and our CARB compliency here and the only thing I can think of that makes you think 2-strokes rule is that you're sittin on a couple of containers of em.
Don't get me wrong, I love two-strokes and always have, you just have too make way and let it go as the four-strokes are surpassing and pushing two-strokes out of the future. Just wait...
The AMA Supercross being 99.9% 4-strokes should be an indication of what type of engine really rules!
In the AMA motocross races, why were the 250 4-strokes pitted against the 125 2-strokes. Why not pit them against 250 2-strokes?
Yamaha YZ460F against Honda CR250R?
Something seems slanted here....
I suspect that the current dominance of the four strokes in the AMA racing circuit would be political - after all, the primary reasons for racing is product development and marketing.
What point would there be for the major manufacturers in continuing development on a engine that's become the scapegoat? Pound for pound the two stroke has always had better characteristics for motocross in particular - but if you have the resources of a major manufacturer these differences aren't so much the primary concern as pushing product.
Four strokes will no doubt eventually be the only type available - yet this has nothing to do with it's performance and everything to do with politics. Don't think for a second that politics doesn't effect the racing circuit or engine development lol
BUT - that's all beside the point anyway, we're talking about available engines suitable for mounting on our bicycles. Of those engines available - if we're talking sheer performance per displacement & weight I'm afraid the 2smokers still haven't got any real competition. The only reason any of the available four strokes even come close is because the China two strokes are about as primitive as you can get - throw a Morini into the equation and the debate is over.
That still doesn't mean I think the four stroke inferior in any way - again, for what's available for our bikes, the four stroke is quieter, smoother running and does have better long term reliability & fuel efficiency potential.
It's still about what tool is more appropriate for what you want out of yer ride.
Really? Is that true? ROFL, if it is - that confirms my political suspicions w/o a doubt...
...and it's kinda lame.
Why you ask? The simple answer is a 2-stroke puts out nearly twice the power per displacement of a 4-stroke of equal size. And that is why the AMA allows this ruling. I wasn't talking about raw brake horsepower....my 66cc 2-stroke can spank my piddly little 49cc 4-stroke. Which bike do I prefer to ride everyday...take a guess? Sorry, it's the 4-banger, mini-thumper!
And how many 2-strokes are running against those 4-strokes in the AMA (pick any series, on or off-road ) ? Almost none! Why....you tell me? And what happened to the 500cc open class and all the 500cc 2-strokes that used to race in them???
Where's the 350cc Banshee, the Penton 125cc, the Hodaka 100cc. the 405cc Husky, the 360cc CZ and the 501cc Maico? There are still some very nice 2-strokes out there, like Polini, Morini, Tanaka, Zenoah, Stihl and Chung Yang, but they are getting far and few between....are they not? Who rules, 2 or 4-stroke?
Which type rules is really neither, they both have there place.
...I guess we've simply different definitions of "ruling" then lol
Politics? You betcha!
Because you don't have to pedal them to get them started......but that's just me.
This is all so true.....might make a sticky out of this....very well put!
my 2 stroke keeps up with a 4 stroke no problem but i would rather have the 4 for the road and my 2 for the dirt
??? Grenade? I think there may be conditions, under which that could happen, which may very well be related to either a less-than-reputable maker's quality or an owner's diligence with upkeep. I know the four-strokes on the lawn mowers and garden tractors I've owned and used and maintained (rather well I may add) were by no means trouble free. If anything, they were right on par with my two-stroke. I know this may be apples-and-oranges but my experience has been that my two-stroke is easier to start. My old arm gets tired after pulling rope a few times. And I think I've rebuilt the carburettor on more four-strokes than I have on two-strokes (well, I haven't had to yet on a two-stroke).
I would say that people who are used to four-strokes will go with what they know, and are more prepared to deal with what they are used to. The exact same can be said for lovers of two-smokers.
right on. 4 strokes have there place as well as 2's
You know I love em.....6-strokes, that is.
LOL Scotto. I couldn't agree more. I forget who said it but "We need a 2.5 stroke" I love the smooth, power, speed and easy of my 4 smokers. I love the slim light an' dang sexy looks of my 2 strokes. This must be confusing to new folks but the real deal is they both have +'s and minuses. They both turn the rear wheel and do their job. This comes up over and over but the bottom line is what will you or do you enjoy the most. For me, it is the MB I am on. The 4 banger is more cost efficient in the long run. Sound is more pleasant to most folks and climbs better and goes faster then a China girl. A china girl engine can be swapped out for half or a third the cost and is simple to fix. Throw a high end 2 stroke in and every thing changes. Has all been said over and over and not saying I don't enjoy this conversation. Saying if one finds some thing they are happy with, God bless. Talking about MBs here. Nothing terribly important. (please note I often get off mine, shut her down and say "I love you" But I got the coolest MB on Mother Earth. Nanananna)