1/2 Scale Real BTR Single & V-Twin Engines

GoldenMotor.com

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
5
38
louisiana
Wow, that could work! The atmospheric valves would keep the rpms and the power of a large displacement engine down to old school levels.

I am fantisizing now, about taking my old 3 cyl speedare and making it run. I would mount traversly, it an appropriate old schoolish frame with one cyl vert an the others hangin out to either side.

IMAG0087.jpg
 
Last edited:

motorhedfred

Member
Jul 31, 2009
421
17
18
United States
Yes ! Your cylinders look just like mine. It's a Speedaire too.

I took the valves out of one of my heads and only about 1/3rd of cylinder bore shows, so I really don't see how they can be used. My heads measure about 4 1/2 inches around, so I'm going to start shopping for chunks of aluminum round stock that size.

I was thinking that a side exhaust valve (flathead style) would allow for the largest and most responsive overhead intake valve. My bores measure 1 3/4" so something like a 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" intake would make use of the available space without shrouding the the valve too much.

I was also thinking that if the intake valve spring and retainer was enclosed in a 2 cavity chamber with a diaphram seperating the 2, the upper chamber could be air pressurized to alter the intake valve timing and lift. A storage tank made from a short section of large diameter pipe with a couple of caps would help. I saw this done on motorcycle forks converted to air pressurized. An adjustable air pressure regulator inline was used to dial in the correct amount.

Since the exhaust is forced out of the cylinder by the piston, it doesn't need as big a valve as anyway.

Oops, so much for the "added simplicity" of atmospheric intake valves.

MHF
 

Mr.B.

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2008
1,329
559
113
Upper Mississippi River valley
Wow, that could work! The atmospheric valves would keep the rpms and the power of a large displacement engine down to old school levels.

I am fantisizing now, about taking my old 3 cyl speedare and making it run. I would mount traversly, it an appropriate old schoolish frame with one cyl vert an the others hangin out to either side.

View attachment 42148

Here’s some “old school” inspiration for ya...

1909 Curtiss V3.

Creating a amazing 10 HP in ‘09, that year Harley’s were only 4.3.

-Kirk
 

Attachments

motorhedfred

Member
Jul 31, 2009
421
17
18
United States
Here's another one for you.

Air-Cooled Cylinders 1

This page has some practical stuff on making a cylinder head from flat aluminum plate.

Lenoir Page

I think the information I'm putting here is starting to belong in a seperate thread in the 4 Stroke Bicycle Engines & Kits section. I'll start a thread there titled "Compressor pump engine" with a link to this page.

MHF
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
0
Left coast
I once knew a Belgian fellow named Jacque Lenoir who was a descendant of that guy.
He was an aerospace engineer. ...fun guy!
rc
 

Crazy Horse

Dealer
Feb 20, 2009
1,153
4
36
USA
Ryan, aka SeattleRider here's the information regarding the machinist who builds real 1/3 scale V-Twin engines!

And the starting price only $7,500!

Crazy Horse!


Update, I finally heard back from Tom Sieber, yes he actually called me!

He has the complete fully functional mini half scale 1915 Indian V-Twin engines available!

This engines are not for the average builder, in other words they are very expensive!!!!

However, there might be 1 or 2 members / custom builders here in the forum who have the skills to maybe build Tom Sieber a custom BTR frame in exchange for an engine, or maybe a joint venture!

Anyone have any idea's as to who could build this machinist a frame for his half scale 1915 engine!

C.H.



Here's Dick Winger holding one of Tom Siebers reproduction half scale Cyclone engines below.


Wanna see more pictures of these engines with Dick Winger & Machinist Tom Sieber click on link below:
Crazyhorse Vintage Board Track Racers pictures by ICrazyhorse - Photobucket
 

Allen_Wrench

Resident Mad Scientist
Feb 6, 2010
2,784
26
36
Indianapolis
...Heres a five cylinder radial engine board track racer........imagination runs wild...
Whoa! What I wouldn't give to listen to the engine on that thing. Especially back in the day, out on the track before a race.
Hear that? That is the sound of a can of whoopa$$ being opened.
 

DareDevil

Member
Apr 29, 2012
446
4
18
Australia
Hi Allen....Why dont you Google.. Utube.. 5 cylinder radial running...bound to be something on a test bench running......
 

Crazy Horse

Dealer
Feb 20, 2009
1,153
4
36
USA
Harold B & Indianfan, if Tom Sieber can build these I'm sure you can build these also.

I've been following your thread Indianfan, thought you might find this thread an interesting read.

C.H.


It's real the 1/2 scale engine's are made by Tom Sieber!

The Little Indian Comes Alive
Winger and Indian couple of years ago, Dick Winger showed up at the AMCA national meet at Eustis, Florida with a 50% scale working model of an Indian V-twin engine built by Tom Sieber of Chula Vista, California.

Whereas a real Indian twin, circa 1907, weighs about 88 pounds, Sieber's tiny replica weighs only 20.

Proving beyond a doubt that the little engine runs, at Oley Winger arrived with it installed in a scaled-down chassis that he had built from scratch during the last 45 days.

Winger jokes, "Does this mean I have too much time on my hands?" Sieber, has built five of the little Indians, and was on hand at Oley to research the idea of building a miniature Indian eight-valve.

He estimates that designing and fabricating the first miniature Hedstrom-type twin required approximately 300 hours.

More to come.....

One Little Indian
I have written before about how much I enjoy the ingenious, odd, and sometimes bizarre contraptions that the skilled craftsmen within the AMCA membership come up with from time to time. Years ago, I recall seeing at the Little Indian Engine Davenport meet a demonstration of a single-cylinder engine for which someone had constructed a Lucite cylinder. It could not be run for more than a few moments at a time due heating and lubrication problems, but when in operation, one could clearly see the piston whizzing up and down, and a kind of a smokey fog in the combustion chamber. At Eustis this year I was amazed again by a tiny Hedstrom-type Indian twin, seen here, that Dick Winger had on display. Appearing to be somewhere around 50% scale, it was assembled from beautifully cast and machined parts. Winger says it will run, and thinks an Indian eight-valve would make an ideal future project. Indeed, it would!

Speaking of Indians, we have previously reported on the collaboration between collector Dick Winger and machinist Tom Sieber to build 50% scale Indian engines. Displaying a half-scale, 20 pound working replica of a Hedstrom twin at the Oley, Pennsylvania AMCA meet, Winger announced that Sieber planned to build an eight-valve Indian. Pictured here is the result, approaching completion. Note that the valve train has been finished for the rear cylinder, but the front cylinder head remains to be drilled and machined. If you doubt that this is actually a miniature, compare its size to the name tag on Winger's shirt.

See pic below for the Blue and Red 1/2 Scale Indians, and pic of Dick Winger & Tom Sieber with the other 1/2 scale Indian, In last pic is Dick Winger holding his Cyclone engine 1/2 scale version, built by Tim Sieber!

Mr B. you are correct they are 20-inch wheels!
 

Indianfan

New Member
May 31, 2012
20
0
0
Hungary
Thanks, I try to get in touch with Tim and/or his mate, regarding the plans.
... or might visit him next year, when I go to California.

Indianfan
 

Indianfan

New Member
May 31, 2012
20
0
0
Hungary
Hi,

You mean the 2 cyl. From my side not much. Right now I am i working in Canada.
When I get back to Hungary in April, will team up with a guy from Art Deco Motorcycling. See what we can come up with.

Indianfan
 

Crazy Horse

Dealer
Feb 20, 2009
1,153
4
36
USA
JimC, here's the post below about Machinist Tom Sieber builder of custom 1/2 scale mini Indian and Cyclone engine's, that I was referring to on post number 5 of this thread.

Jim, if he can do it I know you can, build these engines too!

Peace Crazy Horse.
Jim, Quote from your post in the Welding & Metalworking Forum / Thread:
Re: Welcome To The Welding & Metalworking Forum
I am a highly skilled retired machinist/tool & die maker I would like to rent some time on a Bridgeport mill or any vertical mill. In or near Long Beach Calif.



It's real the 1/2 scale engine's are made by Tom Sieber!

The Little Indian Comes Alive
Winger and Indian couple of years ago, Dick Winger showed up at the AMCA national meet at Eustis, Florida with a 50% scale working model of an Indian V-twin engine built by Tom Sieber of Chula Vista, California.

Whereas a real Indian twin, circa 1907, weighs about 88 pounds, Sieber's tiny replica weighs only 20.

Proving beyond a doubt that the little engine runs, at Oley Winger arrived with it installed in a scaled-down chassis that he had built from scratch during the last 45 days.

Winger jokes, "Does this mean I have too much time on my hands?" Sieber, has built five of the little Indians, and was on hand at Oley to research the idea of building a miniature Indian eight-valve.

He estimates that designing and fabricating the first miniature Hedstrom-type twin required approximately 300 hours.

More to come.....

One Little Indian
I have written before about how much I enjoy the ingenious, odd, and sometimes bizarre contraptions that the skilled craftsmen within the AMCA membership come up with from time to time. Years ago, I recall seeing at the Little Indian Engine Davenport meet a demonstration of a single-cylinder engine for which someone had constructed a Lucite cylinder. It could not be run for more than a few moments at a time due heating and lubrication problems, but when in operation, one could clearly see the piston whizzing up and down, and a kind of a smokey fog in the combustion chamber. At Eustis this year I was amazed again by a tiny Hedstrom-type Indian twin, seen here, that Dick Winger had on display. Appearing to be somewhere around 50% scale, it was assembled from beautifully cast and machined parts. Winger says it will run, and thinks an Indian eight-valve would make an ideal future project. Indeed, it would!

Speaking of Indians, we have previously reported on the collaboration between collector Dick Winger and machinist Tom Sieber to build 50% scale Indian engines. Displaying a half-scale, 20 pound working replica of a Hedstrom twin at the Oley, Pennsylvania AMCA meet, Winger announced that Sieber planned to build an eight-valve Indian. Pictured here is the result, approaching completion. Note that the valve train has been finished for the rear cylinder, but the front cylinder head remains to be drilled and machined. If you doubt that this is actually a miniature, compare its size to the name tag on Winger's shirt.

See pic below for the Blue and Red 1/2 Scale Indians, and pic of Dick Winger & Tom Sieber with the other 1/2 scale Indian, In last pic is Dick Winger holding his Cyclone engine 1/2 scale version, built by Tim Sieber!

Mr B. you are correct they are 20-inch wheels!
 

Slimey1

New Member
Mar 10, 2014
28
0
0
Mt.Vernon,OH
Here's another one.

Three Little Hogs

Sort of a complicated , machine shop type build. But the finished product speaks for itself.

MINI V-TWIN "HOGLET" - YouTube

MHF
You can buy the plans for the Hoglet from most Model Engine plans websites.Check out home engine machinist forums.Gbritnell with the youtube videos lives about 30 miles from me. I'm actually going to purchase the Hoglet,Kiwi MK-2,or J.E.Howell v-twin plans and try to make my own only bigger. Might try the Kiwi MK-2 single cylinder first,and make it 30ci like the 1911 Excelsior single.