Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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I'm humbled Pete, thanks. I'd suggest others to do a lot more layout work than I did prior to building most anything. Not doing the primary design work has arisen to bite me rear several times already! Tolerances lol, fractional at best, except at run out. if it rotates it's quite close. One offs do allow for a bit of free style interpretation though I try not to get carried away with myself. A really key element that I try to keep in mind is the truly late 19th. century nature of these motors; quite agricultural/industrial fit and finish...though at times sprinkled with whimsical details. Fittings and tubing of that early era were straight out of the bins, typical hardware store items. Parts a plumber would have in his kit. That's what I attempt to keep mind as I build, that and not to over finish the motor case, always leaving some "age" on it along the way. Part of the charm of classic motor vehicles is they've survived the ages and I do my best to capture some of that age in most of my builds. What works for me is a bike that looks old & well ridden. but was carefully maintained over the decades. I'd say three years of riding in all types of weather completes the faux patina I initially apply to hurry things along, nature does great work on metal in that regard.

Doing with basic hand tools is a throw back to my youth, but even then I managed to get a lot of work done by area blacksmiths, welders and machine shops and learn along the way. I do miss my machine shop, but I'm pretty certain I get as much or more satisfaction from the process of building mostly by hand. Not so much that I didn't think twice about utilizing an automated plasma table to cut the myriad fins and side plates for this motor case. Great savings in time and effort, though turning steel cylinders would have been more efficient and quicker on a lathe. I didn't have access to a machine with the necessary size to do so myself and didn't want to farm it out.

Before my eyes started to fail I painted wildlife (detail of an Ocelot included) that I'd encountered in my various travels. Art is important to me. I've also published a rather long novel and a couple of technical works as well.

Art & the search for first hand knowledge of a topic are two of the reasons, Pete, that I'm entranced by your travels to learn more of early rail equipage and the resulting exquisite rail miniatures you've created. The art & precision shows in your bikes and autos as well. They are great motivators to us all!

Rick C.

Ocelot Columbia 2001.JPG
 

Bob53

Member
Jan 8, 2015
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Cleveland, OK
I'm humbled Pete, thanks. I'd suggest others to do a lot more layout work than I did prior to building most anything. Not doing the primary design work has arisen to bite me rear several times already! Tolerances lol, fractional at best, except at run out. if it rotates it's quite close. One offs do allow for a bit of free style interpretation though I try not to get carried away with myself. A really key element that I try to keep in mind is the truly late 19th. century nature of these motors; quite agricultural/industrial fit and finish...though at times sprinkled with whimsical details. Fittings and tubing of that early era were straight out of the bins, typical hardware store items. Parts a plumber would have in his kit. That's what I attempt to keep mind as I build, that and not to over finish the motor case, always leaving some "age" on it along the way. Part of the charm of classic motor vehicles is they've survived the ages and I do my best to capture some of that age in most of my builds. What works for me is a bike that looks old & well ridden. but was carefully maintained over the decades. I'd say three years of riding in all types of weather completes the faux patina I initially apply to hurry things along, nature does great work on metal in that regard.

Doing with basic hand tools is a throw back to my youth, but even then I managed to get a lot of work done by area blacksmiths, welders and machine shops and learn along the way. I do miss my machine shop, but I'm pretty certain I get as much or more satisfaction from the process of building mostly by hand. Not so much that I didn't think twice about utilizing an automated plasma table to cut the myriad fins and side plates for this motor case. Great savings in time and effort, though turning steel cylinders would have been more efficient and quicker on a lathe. I didn't have access to a machine with the necessary size to do so myself and didn't want to farm it out.

Before my eyes started to fail I painted wildlife (detail of an Ocelot included) that I'd encountered in my various travels. Art is important to me. I've also published a rather long novel and a couple of technical works as well.

Art & the search for first hand knowledge of a topic are two of the reasons, Pete, that I'm entranced by your travels to learn more of early rail equipage and the resulting exquisite rail miniatures you've created. The art & precision shows in your bikes and autos as well. They are great motivators to us all!

Rick C.

Rick, I think Pete's thoughts are the same as everyones. This build is like a good book. We can't wait until the next page. What an awesome build this is turning out to be. Just be careful, at your young age your setting the bar awful high to be jumping over. This, and all your other toys need to come to Portland sometime. You and them would be a big hit. Keep up the great work and turn that next page we're waiting. Bob
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Awesome comments Bob and thank you so much. At this age I crawl under all bars like during live fire training.
Portland is on my bucket list for sure but four grandsons are in play, youngest 15 mo., so not much contest for travel time coast to coast including the Gulf for awhile, but may sneak a visit North at some point.

I've a list of to do items on the faux motor today as I did nothing yesterday and no I wasn't hungover. Just had a lot of competition for my time & never got a start on the motor case. At any rate two to four hours is about what I allow myself when I do work on bikes and that time is kinda' in slow motion at that!

I hope you guys are doing well and are blessed in the New year, post up some photos here on my thread if you like. Simplex posts are certainly welcomed along with all things interesting.

Rick C.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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I assembled the major components three times yesterday afternoon making small adjustments and alterations along the way in an effort to make it a simple operation to dismantle the various parts. I threaded several holes during the process and the drive side cover plates received most of my attention, but even at that I've quite a lot left to complete on the drive side and the valve train side motor case covers have yet to be installed. The motor is 18.5" in height, but that height is mitigated by dropping the case over the loop frame saving more than 2" of installed height. Still it will be a tight fit & I can understand why Harley cut fuel tank notches and offset the motor to the right of center to clear the intake valve rockers.

Engine weight to this point is 45 lbs. with out carb, mag, exhaust stubs or right side motor covers, so I'd think my 51 lb. estimate pretty close to the mark.

Rick C.

Harley drive side 3.jpg
Harley drive side 2.jpg
Harley drive side 1.jpg
Harley valve train side.jpg
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Thanks Curt, I hope the new year is rolling along on precision bearings for you.

Details are what slow things up for me, that and my lack of drive in the red zone. At times it might appear that I'm progressing well, though the reality is I'm really just inching along & moving the sticks.

The good news is it's going to work fine and be easy to service when the need arises, finishing the motor case to look "period correct" is the final challenge I face and this made more difficult to accomplish due to my decision to "unitize" and mount the jack shaft inside the motor case instead of running the reduction gears on the frames bottom bracket, which would have been the easy way out.

Mounting e-motors much larger than 3kw in this e-case would be impractical or impossible with the 3/4" jack shaft located internally, though a 1/2" shaft & bearing set would free up some interior space. I'd think the 3/4" bottom bracket reduction gear a better option for larger motors & simpler for any motor size.

Something to keep in mind. Though I live in a cop friendly local most don't. This V-e thing will be a cop magnet which will create police turnarounds and my experience is when these happen an officer "contact" will typically take place. Operational pedals will to be in place and in use during rides to help sell the deal. Good luck helps. My Harley build is a good example of a cop magnet...motor looks huge in the Sportsman frame, finally had to tag & insure it. The Simplex however does not and it's the same 125cc 5 speed that's on the Harley, just tricked out a bit different.

Rick C.
 

PeteMcP

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Jun 27, 2017
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Great shots of the twin's assembled cylinders and case. I'm betting even the cops will be awed in the event of any pull-over when you demonstrate it's really just smoke and mirrors. Who wouldn't be? Besides, wouldn't the complete absence of any engine sound associated with a V-twin be the giveaway? Or do you have plans to factor that in too?
Speaking of cops, riding my licensed Honda Solo without having to look over my shoulder every few seconds makes for a relaxing ride experience. The only thing I may get pulled on would be the Solo's rear license plate - an undersized 'show plate'. The original full sized rear plate looked huge as a side mount - so I've risked going with the smaller, illegal, plate. It'll all come down to an individual cop's discretion if I'm ever pulled over.
 

curtisfox

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Dec 29, 2008
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precision bearings! Are a little dry, had a bad virus just before Christmas. That really put me down and are slowly getting more movement, and being 78 seems to take longer. Now down from 3 naps to 1, so bearings are turning just a tad slow right now.
Your build is looking good, to the point of almost the real engine..........Curt
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Pete it's that passing glance, on meeting, I think that tells them somethings not quite right at 25 or 30 mph. Around here most every V-twin run with little or no baffling so yes I'd think that would enter into it. Sound effects won't be used however. I agree that watching ones six isn't relaxing during rides. I do blow smoke with the cops and play the nice old guy card to the hilt, though I don't do grovel. I do hope you are enjoying the Solo it's such an appealing bike.

Rick C.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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I stopped long enough to consider the reduction drive this morning, because I can't have much offset the drive needs be narrow & .75" width is quite narrow, but just enough to clear two chains and the case, when welded as a unit and keyed...this is where I miss my machine shop, but I can do as much with less given some extra time. I've narrowed a 3/4" 415 jack shaft sprocket, keyed a narrow steel spacer and fashioned a steel bushing (also keyed to center the 3/4" shaft on the 8mm (primary) sprockets 1 & 5/32" center hole and will utilize a 3/4" aluminum rod to hold all, centered in position for welding as a single unit. Do it wrong and I get to do it again with all new components. I use aluminum a lot as a welding fixture material as it resists being accidentally welded in place, sheds any spatter from mig, flux wire or stick & acts as a heat sink.

Extra tip for those home welders of steel that don't like cleaning up spatter & don't have a tig setup (tig is a no spatter process). Which includes protecting paint on those sometime necessary welds on "finished" bikes...use aluminum foil which is inexpensive, installs quickly, stays in place,completely shields spatter & can't catch on fire, spray products don't even come close to comparing by any metric, including price.

Rick C.
 
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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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The little reduction gear welded up nice after I prepped it my removing the cad plating and black oxide from the weldments. Cad is especially nasty and the welding fumes especially toxic to breath while grinding or welding. I was hoping to keep the gears narrow 3/4" or less and finished at 9/16" and that's a very good thing. My welding fixture worked perfectly and both bores and keyways lined up perfectly and all rolls without wobble. I didn't bother checking with the dial indicator, but will get around to that when I true up the jack shaft. I tacked the outside shaft collar to the large reduction gear to hold things together in the vise while welding using the 3/4" rod aluminum fixture and yes I did use aluminum foil to repel any spatter.

I've decided on using a single lug, one on the front one on the rear, for case frame mounts. More won't be required due to my design change which includes a motor to frame base plate inside the crank case. Heads will each receive a support mount to upper frame. Total installed motor height just under 16.5". This motor case is tall. I think I'm alright with the height, but if not it's no big deal I'll just chop a fin or two off the top no big deal … plenty of fins left to cool this V-twin!

I'm close to moving back to the other side of the case to close it up with assorted cover plates, while keeping air flow through the e-motor. I'm attempting to complete welding operations outside in fresh air and natural light. You can't weld well when you can't see well and inside I might as well be totally blind, rather than just visually impaired. It's sometimes frustrating, but life can be that way at times lol, just have to deal with it!

Rick C.
 

FOG

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Mar 3, 2019
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My welding results have improved recently by using large amounts of ambient light. A desk lamp, drop light, clamp-on and whatever else I can find.That arc will burn your eyeballs and you'd think that amount of light would be enough to avoid wobbly welding in the dark, but it hasn't been working for me.

As a general rule I've found that if I can't see thru the helmet well enough to start there's no reason to pull the trigger. If I have to line up and nod the helmet down it's probably gonna be ugly ...

This could be age related. I don't remember it being a problem in the past.
 

MEASURE TWICE

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Jul 13, 2010
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The little reduction gear welded up nice after I prepped it my removing the cad plating and black oxide from the weldments. Cad is especially nasty and the welding fumes especially toxic to breath while grinding or welding. I was hoping to keep the gears narrow 3/4" or less and finished at 9/16" and that's a very good thing. My welding fixture worked perfectly and both bores and keyways lined up perfectly and all rolls without wobble. I didn't bother checking with the dial indicator, but will get around to that when I true up the jack shaft. I tacked the outside shaft collar to the large reduction gear to hold things together in the vise while welding using the 3/4" rod aluminum fixture and yes I did use aluminum foil to repel any spatter.

I've decided on using a single lug, one on the front one on the rear, for case frame mounts. More won't be required due to my design change which includes a motor to frame base plate inside the crank case. Heads will each receive a support mount to upper frame. Total installed motor height just under 16.5". This motor case is tall. I think I'm alright with the height, but if not it's no big deal I'll just chop a fin or two off the top no big deal … plenty of fins left to cool this V-twin!

I'm close to moving back to the other side of the case to close it up with assorted cover plates, while keeping air flow through the e-motor. I'm attempting to complete welding operations outside in fresh air and natural light. You can't weld well when you can't see well and inside I might as well be totally blind, rather than just visually impaired. It's sometimes frustrating, but life can be that way at times lol, just have to deal with it!

Rick C.
At times I think I used a light, but the fairly inexpensive Bell Auto Shade Weld Hood and all the adjustment, as well as magnifying lenses that can be installed, seems it was mostly the power supply that has to be sufficient. Got a new carb for a gen set that feeded the welder and all was well.
 

Tony01

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Nov 28, 2012
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I knew an old school manual fog who used to ask, “you see how you’re doin’ that?” Yes I see... with welding the best case is to see none of it that damages the eyes. I like my face as far from it as possible. With the best light you can see furthest and possibly like MT said with lenses too.

However with flux core i can’t see the puddle anyway, so I block the view of the weld just slightly with the tip of the gun and watch the puddle just outside of it. Not having the weld in my field of view makes everything else a little bit easier to see as well so I can move my face further away too.
 

MEASURE TWICE

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Jul 13, 2010
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After you swing the helmet down, it it can be also useful to have the angle of the light or Sun if outside so it does not darken before you pull the trigger. Just more time to see without shade. Trusting the helmet works. Mine uses 2 AAA batteries, which I take out so no acid leak. There is a self test button which tests and darkens quickly twice.A flashing light when it tells you to replace the batteries. One crappy seller had rechargeable battery in a glued molded case that was not user replaceable. The solar cell on mine is only to darken, batteries eaily accessible.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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All good stuff guys and relevant. I switched to auto maybe 35 years ago and literally thousands of pounds of wire later and ten to 15 helmets retired from service during that time I feel the auto helmet kept me actually running both rod and wire for an extra two decades at least.

My impaired vision is complex and involves more than just the occupational hazard of welding and old age though both contributed. It's bad enough that I completely gave up driving autos several years ago, I ride but don't drive, still have a license, with optical endorsement, but I decided it was time to take me out of the several thousand pound lethal weapon I was conducting. Refocusing is a huge problem, as is light gathering and peripheral vision. On a cycle in daylight I do quite well, night riding isn't however a good option.

I've found the welding combination that works best with my current physical limitations but envy those with normal vision that allows them greater flexibility in technique.

Rick C.