Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

Tom I know the one you're referring to and that would be a notable project to enter into. I don't recall anyone posting about using this particular Schwinn suspension on the forum, though the bicycle restorers have.

The squeal I mentioned in my previous post really isn't. It's actually more of a squeak...squeak like the steel buggy springs sometimes made during courtships. Just recently installed new clutch pads so I inspected, lubed and adjusted the gears etc on the pedal chain side with no noticeable improvement so I'll dive into the other side tomorrow. It only squeaks under gas engine power with bike under way. No squeaks at idle even when bike is moving and with clutch lever pulled in.
Kinda' got me puzzled? If I don't solve it tomorrow I'll just order all new clutch components and rebuild it, they almost give these stock parts away so not much need to waste time looking for answers.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Using the seat dropper post on the Hybrid kept me up this evening and think I have a plan to use it with a slightly altered saddle spring rear rack mount design to keep the saddle in a ridable position regardless of the height the dropper post is set at.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Rick, if you can. Please link me to Schwinn restorers regarding the Schwinn Full Float saddle and seat post.
What I know of it came in a commemorative first and only addition of, "50Years of Schwinn Built Bicycles", published by Schwinn in 1945.
I came upon it at a used book store in Geneva, Ill. My buddy got the bulk of a collection of Smithsonian ethnology books regarding American Indians He was a student at SIU Carbondale majoring in history.
But I latched onto the Schwinn book and when I paid for it the proprietor commended me on my choice.
Tom

 

[indian22]

Tom the 1936 Schwinn "Auto Cycle" used the Milsco saddle that's was called the "pogo" suspension and was aptly named for it's seat post vertical spring concealed inside the post. The pogo spring tension was adjustable by a simple bolt located at the bottom of the post tube, so adjustment required removal of the post from the seat tube.The attractive, Brook's style leather saddle, was extravagantly brass studded, the seat was sprung by leaf springs forming a spring loop at the saddles nose, at least on this first year Model offered by Schwinn, the leaf may have been changed on later models of the Milsco, but the pogo remained.

I think I saved a screen shot of the suspension details a few years back, Sheldon Brown article/blog I think? I searched for the photo, but think it's on an old drive. I'll check & post if found. Milsco catalog reproduction may also be available on line

Does this sound like what you are interested in Tom?

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I decided the "dropper" seat post isn't compatible with my saddle spring mount as the Hybrid's seat tube has too much angle from the vertical to function as I wanted. So after Tom asked about the seats nose down attitude and my discarding the dropper tube, I got to thinking about lowering the spring height while still using the rear rack as the primary support member. Though I've not felt like I'm slipping forward on relatively smooth and short rides; there might be need for concern when things get rough for extended periods of riding. So that's to do today. Nose up as saddle is lowered. The pan has an exaggerated curl to keep me from sliding back and off the saddle. So thanks Tom for your question, leading to change.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

LOL!

This is Kool Didn't know Schwinn made one, but have seen leaf spring seats on old motor cycles of the past. I bet this would be a soft ride...........Curt

 

[indian22]

LOL!

Curt that's pretty close to the look of the Milsco used on some of the the '36 Schwinn Auto-Cycles and if there's a coil spring hidden in the seat post, then it's a modern replica of the "pogo". Who sells that?

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

Just a image, https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/phantom-of-the-pogo.117659/

Think a guy could make his own, cold bend a spring, and go from there. The picture looks like 2 leaves............Curt

 

[indian22]

Yep Curt that's the original as I recalled it and there are 2 springs and he calls it the Pogo full floater saddle. Nicely restored original Milsco that was introduced on the Auto-Cycle of 1936 for the first time. Yes with these photos a fellow could build a full float saddle.

Rick C.

 

[dogcatcher]

Search eBay for "Schwinn Messenger Saddle" and again with "messinger" misspelled with an I. You will find new replicas and vinatge that are rat eaten.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

You guys are really on this! Yes Rick, I didn't know it was a Milsco saddle. I am very satisfied with my Brookes190.
but in conjunction with a sprung seat post? One may never need to dismount but to refuel or a call of nature.
Tom

 

[indian22]

You guys are really on this! Yes Rick, I didn't know it was a Milsco saddle. I am very satisfied with my Brookes190.
but in conjunction with a sprung seat post? One may never need to dismount but to refuel or a call of nature.
Tom

Coil spring seat posts,with internal spring are common and quite inexpensive so I'm thinking the Brooks 190 could be rigged up with a little ingenuity. The ones I've had were rigged up for twin rail MB or road saddles, but that's not to say cruiser post setups etc. aren't out there. The last one I owned squeaked badly and I installed a grease fitting.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

I decided the "dropper" seat post isn't compatible with my saddle spring mount as the Hybrid's seat tube has too much angle from the vertical to function as I wanted. So after Tom asked about the seats nose down attitude and my discarding the dropper tube, I got to thinking about lowering the spring height while still using the rear rack as the primary support member. Though I've not felt like I'm slipping forward on relatively smooth and short rides; there might be need for concern when things get rough for extended periods of riding. So that's to do today. Nose up as saddle is lowered. The pan has an exaggerated curl to keep me from sliding back and off the saddle. So thanks Tom for your question, leading to change.

Rick C.

Evolution being what it is, horse saddles have a backward cant to the seat pan, bike builders of the day knew which way a saddle should pitch. Until I lowered the seat pan I was blaming my awkward ride on a new slippery saddle.
Tom

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Coil spring seat posts,with internal spring are common and quite inexpensive so I'm thinking the Brooks 190 could be rigged up with a little ingenuity. The ones I've had were rigged up for twin rail MB or road saddles, but that's not to say cruiser post setups etc. aren't out there. The last one I owned squeaked badly and I installed a grease fitting.

Rick C.

Hey Rick, this week I got Tom Rafferty' "Indian" coffee table book. One photo of a 1910 model shows an accessory twin tube spring saddle suspension. very unlike the seat post devise on a Schwinn. Possibilities up the yin-yang.
Tom

 

[indian22]

I completed the alteration of my saddle mount, at least it's installed and it sits level & low like it did prior to adding the springs, forgot to take photos but I'll do better tomorrow. I do think it will be more effective in keeping my backside properly located Tom and look better doing it. Both the nose and bolter were lowered 2" in front & almost 3" in the rear.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Hey Rick, this week I got Tom Rafferty' "Indian" coffee table book. One photo of a 1910 model shows na accessory twin tube spring saddle suspension. very unlike the seat post devise on a Schwinn. Possibilities up the yin-yang.
Tom

Think I know the one you're referring to used on the road bikes. Those old pioneers had some unique solutions to common biking problems and it's fun to study their work.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Evolution being what it is, horse saddles have a backward cant to the seat pan, bike builders of the day knew which way a saddle should pitch. Until I lowered the seat pan I was blaming my awkward ride on a new slippery saddle.
Tom

Having been born on a horse I've had my fair share of saddles in many shapes and sizes for differing uses.

Transitioning to road bikes and later MB's I suffered on long rides till I learned what works. I ride a Selle saddle on my e-mountain bike with a dropper post and these two complementary components are the most expensive elements by far on the bike including the lithium battery & e-hub combination. To the newbie the Selle saddle looks uncomfortable & un-rideable and the setup is close to flat but slightly favors towards nose down. The width of the saddle appears far too narrow and not at all comfortable, but both inner thighs and butt thank me for my extravagance in the purchase after long rides. Constant pedaling is a major factor in the saddles shape and riding adjustment.

Going to motorized I quickly realized that I enjoyed sitting to much while started allowing the saddle bear almost the entirety of my weight rather than my legs, and I've had to eliminate this tendency when riding under power. The legs should work as our primary shock absorbers as we ride (as on a horse), but we get lazy or old & the legs are gradually taken out of the riding technique. Large tires (aired down), full suspension and air ride saddles allow us to sit and ride in comfort, but classic hard tails and primitive suspensions with 2" tires demand involving the legs, especially on longer rides, that we hope don't involve much if any pedal assist and that's where the wide bobber shape entered my design picture. It's primary function on my bikes is for sitting and not pedaling, but as with the saddle function on a horse the legs are still used as shock absorbers in the stirrups to prevent bouncing on both horse and moto bike... both shape, size and adjustment are greatly different on moto-bikes than on pedal bikes as is riding technique.

Early day saddles on moto bicycles were mostly pedal bicycle gear as were the frames, tires, brakes etc. used and gradually evolved into what became purpose designed motorcycle components. I love the old stuff, but on my bikes that turn into daily riders I lean toward some designs that incorporate more comfort and safety (brakes) while retaining the flavor of classic appearance.

I've both classic bicycle leather pedaling style saddles on some of my bikes, but I favor the solo bobber seat for most and the setup for each is quite different as is my style of riding each.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I completed the alteration of my saddle mount, at least it's installed and it sits level & low like it did prior to adding the springs, forgot to take photos but I'll do better tomorrow. I do think it will be more effective in keeping my backside properly located Tom and look better doing it. Both the nose and bolter were lowered 2" in front & almost 3" in the rear.

Rick C.

Photo update of progress. Good news it works well & bad is I have to take it apart to finish. I'll wait till the Maxxi Holyrollers get here for that.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Hey Rick, this week I got Tom Rafferty' "Indian" coffee table book. One photo of a 1910 model shows an accessory twin tube spring saddle suspension. very unlike the seat post devise on a Schwinn. Possibilities up the yin-yang.
Tom

Tom one of the early mainstays of Harley Davidsons was the coil spring seat post tube to which all manner of spring or springless bicycle saddles were attached. The spring post was a Harley patented innovation. I checked in Hugo Wilson's "Ultimate Harley-Davidson" book and 1915 was the first mention that I noticed and this, used on the standard 1912 K, but I recall the 1912 model "Grey ghost" also had a spring loaded seat post tube, The 1915 KTR (racing) models did not use these nor the did the 1915 KR "Fast" which was the road going version lightweight equipped with the Messenger long spring style saddle. This bike was modeled after the full race team bikes and sold to the public. I've no idea when this post spring was dropped from common use on Harleys, but it's use certainly had historical significance with HD bikes.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Rick, seating set up is looking good.
I just ordered Hugo Wilson's "Ultimate Harley-Davidson".
But I really need another book case, I'm topped out a the present time. But one more book in a house fully will attract no attention from the Mrs.
But in just looking in Rafferty' book it seems Indian took up off and on starting in 1923 using a sprung seat tube post. Though Indian took many more years to incorporate a buddy seat like my 1950 FL has.
Tom