Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

Added the trailer hitch & axle adjuster yesterday and sorted the brakes out... mostly just ride and adjust made difficult since the extra long brake cable set was half right; the sheath was long but the wire cable wasn't. I also ordered a rear rack.

The good news is it works to this point & I say this after putting an additional 15 miles on it this morning and no need for further adjustments along the way, yea!

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Put in some more miles on the Hybrid before and after lunch & I'm good with where it's at performance wise. Cosmetically it's not there yet, but I count on at least two complete disassembly's of the extension plates for the rear rack install and completion of the metal work. It's a work in progress... I'll attempt to add pretty later.

While I wait on the Maxxis Holy roller tires and the rear rack I'll work on the saddle spring/shock seat stay mount and saddle mount supports for saddle suspension. I hope it's as simple a project as I've envisioned it to be. Both my Harley and Simplex use this basic type seat suspension, but each has it's own variation; mostly due to differing frame designs but, I suspect, my own lack of imagination is also at fault.

The additional open space between seat tube and rear tire has future potential for different practical applications also.

Things to do....

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Looking good Rick. Shame the useful space created behind the seat post can't accommodate the battery's width.

 

[indian22]

Thanks Pete, good guess as to my intended purpose for the useful space. While it's true the current batt pack is too large to fit the space my plan is to add a custom oil tank/20 amp battery pack built to fit the allocated space. The completed size 9"x3.75"x2.75" I'll need to offset the box 1/2" to the pedal drive side for the fit to work.

I'm not planning to remove the current battery pack as I'm wanting to extend the range of the electric function of the hybrid. With the addition of the rear rack and panniers the bike will be capable of carrying at least 3 additional 20 amp batteries on long rides. I've three 36v. batteries currently, all 15 amp, that can be switched between my mountain bike and the hybrid so the custom 20 amp will bring me to four 36 volt batteries on hand and I'll eventually add 2 or 3 more 20 amps for the panniers.

Locally I'll just run the two battery setup and hope I don't hate the look of the rear rack too much, but it will be simple to dismount the rack quickly.

Rick C.



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[indian22]

Rear rack is installed. I went with simple twin coil springs for the saddle suspension and they made a marked difference, along with the spring fork. Rides nice but the axle drop extension is the most noticeable change to ride performance and gave me room to work with to install both the saddle suspension & the rear rack attachment. I can't wait to get the 20amp "oil tank" battery finished and installed in the open space between the seat tube and tire. I've been using the hub motor much more than I thought I would. At first I used it to start the engine and for initial takeoff from stops, to reduce wear on the clutch, but found the acceleration was very impressive...especially using both motor throttles together. Though the electric is good to about 25mph by itself; when you couple it with the gas engine and pedal assist (to about 15 mph) but continue with the e motor & gas together the bike gets to high forties in a hurry. When I get the Maxxi tires mounted I'll see if the 38t rear will top 55mph using both motors simultaneously. At 40 mph using the e hub the gas motor seems to have hardly any load to pull compared to running with gas motor only and the engine just hums along without vibration. It's a odd sensation but one I really like and it's one reason I want an additional high capacity battery aboard because I'm using the heck out of the e hub.

The stretch to 53" wheelbase and 1.75" positive trail when coupled with both more weight and that weight being better centered and mounted lower giving an overall lower center of gravity, gives the hybrid the feel of a lightweight motorcycle and I mean that in a good way. The overall weight is just under 100 lbs. now with a full tank of fuel.

The dual disk brakes (203mm rear) of course are worlds better than the rear coaster/160mm rotor front and the billet rear hub is really smooth. Though not an economy build I feel the money & time well spent to this point and I'm becoming hopeful that the 500 mile Fall ride can be completed without major drama. This coming week I'll make another100 plus mile trip, weather permitting, no highways permitted and this will include about 15 miles of really loose gravel.

Rick C.

 

[MotoMagz]

Shoot that’s awesome 100lbs... think my wheels weigh that much. Seat and rack came out great. You’ll like the maxxis

 

[curtisfox]

Really looking KOOl! Nice rack, not a electric man, but this is getting interesting........Curt

 

[dogcatcher]

That looks great. Can you provide close up pics of the seat install and the source of the luggage rack?

 

[indian22]

That looks great. Can you provide close up pics of the seat install and the source of the luggage rack?

Thanks the rack is a E bay $50. item built by Axiom this one is the Steamliner DLX model. I have the larger Streamliner on my Fat e bike mounted in the reverse of this one and I'm convinced of the quality.

I use the rack as a base for the coil bobber style saddle springs. I also have the hairpin style springs that would mount just as well if not better with the setup I'm running. I'll take some closeups of the mount for you. The leather bobber solo saddle has a really heavy steel pan so the seat to springs is just a straight bolt up connection, while the nose of the saddle just pivots on the seat tube with Harley style saddle mounts. All 75 to 100 year old mounting system, except for using the rack as a base. I've yet to add some forward support for the rack, but doubt it's needed. Rack is rated at 110 lb. maximum load capacity, but that was using the ultra thin axle mount plates...which I didn't use.

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Indian 1916 Model K "Featherweight" was the only early Indian motocycle to use a single cylinder 2 stroke engine, A Villiers 221cc displacement power plant and a three speed transmission...very rare one year production, but all my Indian tribute bikes reflect this historical oddity. I don't attempt to replicate often, just my nod of homage to a simpler past in motoring on two wheels. Of course this hybrid is just me being me.

Rick C

 

[indian22]

Shoot that’s awesome 100lbs... think my wheels weigh that much. Seat and rack came out great. You’ll like the maxxis

Thanks Moto. I use the 2.4 Maxxi Holy rollers on my full suspension e-mountain bike & they are awesome. 65 lb. pressure and wrap around cleats give me a feeling of great confidence on or off road. Especially good in the gravel and I like the sprint bike look of the tread as well.

 

[indian22]

Thanks Curtis and Dogcatcher, couple of photos of the saddle spring to rack mounting. The mount plates are 1/4" steel plate that sandwich the rack tubes and held in place with 5/16" fasteners. The plates are 2" wide so that the clamping pressure on the rack tubes is spread out over a larger area to hold better without risk of crushing

the rack tubes. I've stress tested it and feel it provides more than sufficient strength for the loads I'll place it under. The springs are heavy motorcycle spec and don't compress like bouncy pogo stick springs that come on beach cruisers. There is no bottoming out with these springs!
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There is a predrilled plate providing a point of attachment to the drilled fender brace tube connecting the seat stays & I will add a forward rack brace at these points as well. I plan on using the fender brace hole to provide support for the additional battery pack/oil tank cum splash guard to be added as well.

The saddle springs and mount take up a good 25% of the racks length, but I've sacrificed that for an efficient spring mount location. The panniers I've in mind are only 6" in depth and 4" thick; though 16" in length, so plenty of room forward, even with the high exhaust heat won't be a problem. The bags ride nice and tight with no sag and leave the top of the rack open for additional 9" long battery packs if required or tool etc.

I'm having some fun with this re do of a 7 year old build that has served me so well over the years and thousands of miles. It's truly an old and trusted friend. I've gone through so many tires on this bike I can't even guess at a number, but The motor is original, with only one top end replacement when I did the third port and reed valve mods. I also just changed the 415 H chain for the second time and neither one broke...ever! Straight chain lines, good lube maintenance coupled with spring tensioners works. Yes 420 is stronger, but this bikes never needed it and it makes a lot of power.

Rick C.​

 

[PeteMcP]

Impressive build, with performance stats to match.
For what is an ongoing rolling test bed, you are enjoying a lot of positive outcomes with little or no reasons to back-track and re-do things. Your latest mods just raised things another notch. Bet this Grubee is a blast to ride.
You might even be converting me to look at the electric side of things...

 

[dogcatcher]

Thanks for the saddle pics, Here is another method that I had been thinking about using. Now, I am not sure, but I like the rack method for rear tire mud control. https://motorbicycling.com/threads/felt-mid-drive.64523/#post-678060

 

[indian22]

Thanks for the saddle pics, Here is another method that I had been thinking about using. Now, I am not sure, but I like the rack method for rear tire mud control. https://motorbicycling.com/threads/felt-mid-drive.64523/#post-678060

Your welcome DC I've admired that particular Felt with long spring conversion as well. It is a good solution for many and I'd considered it for my Grubee also. The rack with a thin splash panel on the bottom is a good addition as well and hardly noticeable to any but the rider with a dry backside! My oil tank battery box will be curved to blend in with the wheel radius to keep the water off the battery, engine and rider.

Either option on your bike would be good choices. I actually like the look of a rear rack on classic style bikes and they are handy as heck on any bike!

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Can you stay in the saddle with that rig Rick? Or do the springs have a lot of flex?
When I set up the Brookes 190 I set the top of the seat level to the frame top tube and the first rides had me forcing myself to stay mounted. So I went back and reviewed early 1900 saddle angles and the nose is always higher than the seat and in some photos very angled. I adjusted my M190 accordingly and I settled in with no sliding forward. Just saying it looks like the seat is pitched steep to the front of your bike.
Tom

 

[indian22]

Can you stay in the saddle with that rig Rick? Or do the springs have a lot of flex?
When I set up the Brookes 190 I set the top of the seat level to the frame top tube and the first rides had me forcing myself to stay mounted. So I went back and reviewed early 1900 saddle angles and the nose is always higher than the seat and in some photos very angled. I adjusted my M190 accordingly and I settled in with no sliding forward. Just saying it looks like the seat is pitched steep to the front of your bike.
Tom

No problem Tom the springs settle enough when I'm mounted to keep me well located on the motorcycle style and size saddle, but there is a forward pitch to the seat profile when I'm not mounted...which is a world of difference from riding a bicycle style seat. I raised the seat post 2" from it's position prior to the installation of springs. The higher I raise the saddle the easier the bike is to peddle also, I could raise the nose of the saddle a couple of inches higher without having to change the spring height on the rack mount, but hope I don't have to do a lot of pedaling on this bike without some help from a motor.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

The back half of the bike functions properly and today I'll concentrate on the forks, once again, fine tuning the suspension; it's close, but still just a bit springy. The front tire needs to be adjusted a bit as well, it's just off center at the moment. Before I tackle those two tasks up front I'll need to fabricate a fork spreader for this style fork. If you recall I originally widened the forks to fit a much larger hub and then narrowed it back to the original standard bicycle width for this build and the electric hub is just a bit wider (surprise) than a standard wheel and mounting the hub with correct spacers is challenging to say the least, so I'll take a few minutes to build a proper tool for the job. The fork is steel so it will spring easily without worry of damage and I'm talking a couple of millimeters here. Next time I'll wait till I receive the part and actually measure it before I finish the part it's to join to. I just assumed facts not in evidence and got bit!

Next thing is to get out and ride the hybrid till dark or until I'm certain everything is sorted out.

I took time to scale the bike at the local weight station and it's still just under 100 lbs. with a full tank of fuel so the weights still close to the last weigh in mark.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Yesterday's goals all accomplished and am now waiting on the Maxxi Holyrollers and thornproof tubes and of course the custom 20 amp lithium pack is probably weeks , who knows, away from completion; so my Fall long ride plans won't be including this important bike feature. I'm just concentrating on important details to avoid unnecessary break downs along the way. Old, short and long cables replaced, new brake pads up front, fasteners checked, new plug and all filters replaced etc.

I use dropper saddle tubes on my mountain bike and on the fat tire and MB e-bikes as well so after seeing Bike nuts nice setup for his e-blke (cool bike!) I'm ordering a dropper for the hybrid as well. In my experience with pedal bicycles these are the best accessory money can buy, period! Most of my bikes are really slammed, the Simplex saddle height, for an extreme example, is 23" and it has just 3" of ground/frame clearance, with pedal levers shortened to 125 mm to help prevent ground strikes. Unfortunately my Simplex design frame has no seat post tube, but on other bikes the dropper post lets me ride low, then instantly add a max of 5" of saddle height (or anywhere in between) with the press of a button to gain leg extension for pedaling. Because of my seat suspension I can only use about 4" of adjustment but that would make a lot of difference to ease of pedaling by itself or assisting the e-hub continuously for improved mileage. Of course I can, if required, simply lower the rack mount bracket plate for the saddle springs to keep things lined out. I see it as a win, win addition for the hybrid, adding bike utility and still retain a racy stance. Such is the life of my Grubee test mule always a change in it's future. I don't know about the Grubee knockoff frames but these old originals are super tough!

Todays a ride day if the wind stays under 20 mph. I plan on lots of miles but will stay close to town in case of problems been way out there and done that before, times several.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Ride cut short I have a clutch squealing a bit under gas motor power, no slip and engages/disengages properly, just sounds like it's "dry" or contacting the outer cover? I'll check it this afternoon, but it really cut my test ride short this morning, but that's what tests are for; finding problems. Good news is tires shipped and battery .may make it here before October 25 & in time for the trail ride, but probably be rack mounted till our return.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Learned something new from you Rick, Dropper seat tubes were way off my radar.
In 1936 Schwinn had a Full Float saddle and seat post.
I would love to make a replica for my Flyer.
Tom