Motor Bikes Gurus! Lots of questions here!

[mapbike]

yep I used to run this and that in my RM80 and the heavy weight low performer Kawasaki KV100 Trail Boss when 8 couldn't get my hands on a bottle of Penzoil 2 smoker oil, never had a single failure and both bikes always to a beating and never complained.... could keep points set on the old Kawasaki for more than a day or two but when it was running it would drink what ever you poured into the oil injection tank and just plug right along all the way up to its 50mph top speed in high range.

 

[VTECturbo-Bike89]

Lol this thread got so offtopic so many times, But its alright, im going to make a new thread for some new questions if you guys are interested in helping me out with this. It will be called "Maintenance for 66cc Motors" see you guys there cheers

 

[Davezilla]

Sounds good... be prepared for information overload when ya get there...

 

[HotRodRob]

Cool, Glad to see things are working out! I knew they would.

That grey paint job you did is nice. I like it. Are you gonna paint the tank grey too?

I wanted to answer a question that didn't get answered. The main way to tell what type motor you have is to look at the piston. If the wrist pin is close to the middle of the piston(side view) then its a GT5 style. If the wrist pin is lower then its a PK80 style. There is also a "half breed" that uses parts from both with a different rod. The half breed isn't very common tho.

I've seen them called type a or type b but have noticed not all vendors agree as to which is which. The other way to tell is to look at the connecting rod. Here is a good video by Fred who explains the differences really well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzLWYSlpFEg

No worries about looking like a newb. Everyone was a newb at one time. I have been in the shop my whole life and even built several small engines, but never 2 strokes. These things are a whole new monster(to me at that time). Its' like a heart surgeon trying to work on a brain. Some of the basics are the same/similar but beyond that its a completely different universe and way of thought. Having the mechanic skills already really does give you a head start but there is still a bit to learn. Won't be long and you will be helping others because you will have first hand advice to give.

I originally thought I would eventually go to 4 strokes but I love the simplicity of these 2 strokes. So I'm gonna keep messing with them. Part of the fun for me is the tinkering. It can be therapeutic. Although I've had them head scratching, tool throwing moments too. One reason I know as much as I do, is because I've had almost every possible problem these kits can have lol.

Can we see some good well lit pics of the whole bike?

How does that front fork feel? Do you like it?

Keep up the good work.
Peace

 

[DRBS]

wow!!!! that's really bad!!! we all start out in out garage or apartment and go from there... I have been building these for 5 years of so and im still in my apartment and doing ok. I mostly fix and install motors sure your going to pay more than on E-BAY we have to make something for our research in finding GREAT motor kits yes it is a very costly thing to find good motors it took me 12 different sellers till I found two that have quality kits and will replace bad parts in 60 days. if you want to do the same then you go ahead and find the good ones from the bad. also there are companies selling old stock since they bought a ton of them and there no good BUT you will not fins ONE BAD IDEA OR SUGGESTION HERE!!!!!! this is a great place to find out the ins and outs of these fine bikes! you can look allover and find a motor or parts but here you will find the BEST ITEMS AND KITS!!!!!

 

[fatdaddy]

Hey DRBS, Ya gotta be carefull, even on this site, I've seen all kinds of bad advice, Mostly from newbies, But still, be aware, ANYBODY can join and start posting, When getting advice get more than one opinion. Not everyone is a motorbike guru. If yer ever in doubt, listen to 2Door. That guy, I've NEVER seen give bad advice, mapbike is another one and theirs a few others that are REAL good at this advice crap. I wish I knew half as much as these guys.
so be carefull, ride safe and have fun. yeah FUN, It's the only reason I ride these little things, IT'S A KICK. (and the girls, of course.LOL)
fatdaddy.

 

[DRBS]

I have been building for a loooong time just don't understand the difference in bottom ends

 

[mapbike]

Hey DRBS, Ya gotta be carefull, even on this site, I've seen all kinds of bad advice, Mostly from newbies, But still, be aware, ANYBODY can join and start posting, When getting advice get more than one opinion. Not everyone is a motorbike guru. If yer ever in doubt, listen to 2Door. That guy, I've NEVER seen give bad advice, mapbike is another one and theirs a few others that are REAL good at this advice crap. I wish I knew half as much as these guys.
so be carefull, ride safe and have fun. yeah FUN, It's the only reason I ride these little things, IT'S A KICK. (and the girls, of course.LOL)
fatdaddy.

Don't sell yourself short here sir..... you offer very good advice and even though I can't think of a particular off the top of my head, I can assure you that some time or another and possibly many times you have posted things that I learned something from, you give great advice my friend and no doubt have a huge amount of knowledge.

On another point you made I completely agree, Tom gives great advice and knowing Tom on here and having many PM conversations as well as yapping here on open forum I can tell anyone with confidence that Tom as well as the other mods here have the best of intentions and say what they do because they really care about this great hobby and they care about doing what they can to give advice that is truly helpful and could possibly be the difference between a safe build and one that could really get someone hurt or even killed.

We have so sharp cookies on here and I sit on a small stool beside them when I'm on here and hope to learn new things that I can share and apply on my own bikes.

Many great and knowledgeable people here, we may not all agree on every single thing, but sometimes its kinda like a Ford vs Chevy thing, and we also know that we all have our own unique abilities and our own preferences about certain things as individuals and that is the way is is with many things.

 

[mapbike]

I have been building for a loooong time just don't understand the difference in bottom ends

There are three basic geometries we're seeing, they aren't new either, many of us were thinking the "half Breed" engine was a new cobbled up thing being shipped over lately, but I found out that it isn't when I tore into one of my engines that was bought on ebay from LEB (Lucky Early Bird) 4 years ago and found that it has a 38mm stroke crank marker ZAE50 just like the current ones we're seeing now and then, and it has the 110mm long con rod and uses the low wrist pin piston.

Most of what we see are the "PK80" type which are 40mm stroke cranks, 110mm rod and use the low pin piston.

Also the GT5 type is more and more popular it seems now, they are 38mm stroke cranked engines, use a con rod that is longer at 114mm and they require a Type B high pin pston.

The actual engine case between all of these geometries will interchange, the difference is the stroke of the crank which is determined by the position of the lower rod journal pin and the length of the Connecting Rod.

These are the three basic 47mm bore 66cc -68.5cc engines that one is most likely to get, with some vendors its a crap shoot which you'll end up with no doubt.

If the con rod is marked Z-L and is scalloped up top its a 40mm stroke engine that likely doesn't have a caged bearing on the rod journal but rather loose pin bearings, If the rod is copper washed looking and has no marking on it and the piston is a low pin type A piston, its gonna be a 40mm stroke engine.

If the rod is marker ZAE50 it a "half Breed type engine and will use the low pin piston but uses a 38mm stroke crank and 110mm length rod, usually these engine can be identified by just removing the head, rotating crank until piston is at TDC and you'll notice that the piston sits way down in the hole/cylinder, normally about 1/16" or about .062"

The GT5 type engines that are popular will have a rod marker FM80 or ZAF80, these engines use what we call a type B or high pin piston and have a longer con rod than all the others @ 114mm

The very knowledgeable engine builder say that the 40mm stroke engines have the least amout of port timing issues, which I have also found to be true.

This is what I know about the most common differences, there are others also, but these are the three geomtries we are gonna see.

Here is a link where Fred explains some of it also, I have three GT5 engines myself and two of them have the rods marked ZAF80 and one is the FM80 marked rod, the one I have running is from rose326a and is a fairly good running engine, the others are waiting to get built up soon.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

Just so anyone who's only reading the first page of this thread knows,
I met with Jonny & totally hooked up his bike because I screwed up & didn't return his texts for a couple of weeks. (unfortunately, that part is burried in the middle of this long thread). :/

I took care of him & made this situation right.

 

[fatdaddy]

Hey Map, Thanks for the compliments brother, BUT, Who the heck are ya calling "SIR", I got Motorbike grease under my fingernails too. My friends call me Red, and since yer a friend It's Red to you bro. Also, if yer taking my advice, I gotta ask, Is your bike still running?LOL.
I consider myself a fair STOCK builder. Any high tech mods aint comming out of my shop. I can yank one apart down to the crank and usually it runs when I'm done. I read about port timing, cutting down piston skirts, ect, and it just sounds like too much work to me. 99% of the time I can get a stocker to hit between 37 and 40mph and thats good enough for a bicycle. This is just my opinion, but if you wanna do 60 or 70mph, get a REAL motorcycle. I've done almost 60mph on a trike at just over half throttle, Backed off and regeared it to hit a more sensible, (lower) speed. I called that bike The Widowmaker, you can see it in my album. I wish I'd not sold that bike, it was WAY COOL. All the way down to the H.D. sportster taillight rack. I gotta build another one.
Later bro,
stay cool and ride safe.
Red, AKA fatdaddy.

 

[fatdaddy]

Just so anyone who's only reading the first page of this thread knows,
I met with Jonny & totally hooked up his bike because I screwed up & didn't return his texts for a couple of weeks. (unfortunately, that part is burried in the middle of this long thread). :/

I took care of him & made this situation right.

Right on bro, Sounds like ya just had a small brain fart but made it right. Just shows you care about customer service. I try to do the same in my little shop, I'm sure I've had MUCH BIGGER brain farts but ya gotta make em right somehow or lose a customer. I'm glad it all worked out for Jonny.
fatdaddy.

 

[mapbike]

Just so anyone who's only reading the first page of this thread knows,
I met with Jonny & totally hooked up his bike because I screwed up & didn't return his texts for a couple of weeks. (unfortunately, that part is burried in the middle of this long thread). :/

I took care of him & made this situation right.

Good form..... the human element says we're all lacking in the perfection department and so we screw up from time to time, main thing is we gotta do just as you have done and man up, admit fault/mistake, make it right and move forward... water under the bridge now...

Life moves on and we deal with all the other fish that need frying....lol!

Glad you and Jonny got things straight and no hard feelings....

Carry on....


Peace, Shan

 

[mapbike]

Hey Map, Thanks for the compliments brother, BUT, Who the heck are ya calling "SIR", I got Motorbike grease under my fingernails too. My friends call me Red, and since yer a friend It's Red to you bro. Also, if yer taking my advice, I gotta ask, Is your bike still running?LOL.
I consider myself a fair STOCK builder. Any high tech mods aint comming out of my shop. I can yank one apart down to the crank and usually it runs when I'm done. I read about port timing, cutting down piston skirts, ect, and it just sounds like too much work to me. 99% of the time I can get a stocker to hit between 37 and 40mph and thats good enough for a bicycle. This is just my opinion, but if you wanna do 60 or 70mph, get a REAL motorcycle. I've done almost 60mph on a trike at just over half throttle, Backed off and regeared it to hit a more sensible, (lower) speed. I called that bike The Widowmaker, you can see it in my album. I wish I'd not sold that bike, it was WAY COOL. All the way down to the H.D. sportster taillight rack. I gotta build another one.
Later bro,
stay cool and ride safe.
Red, AKA fatdaddy.

Ok, I call you sir out of respect since thats how I was raised, but you want to keep it at Red..... well, thats a done deal, Red it will be from now on.

Hey I aint no High Performance Pro either, I just do to mine 2hat has proven to me in my experimenting to work for a little better power and top speed when I need it if the balance of the engine will allow it.

Im just a hack in a sense, but I do try to make things safe and reliable, I just do what I do when I have the extra $$$ and time for it, Im not a perfectionist on my bikes, I just want them to run and ride good and Im happy.

If want to go fast and really cruise, I just fire up the 2007 FXSTC and hit the road, the Vance and Hines Big Radius slash cut pipes are music to my ears and the 1584cc with a Screaming Eagle Race tune is all I need to get my blood pumping if I want....... my little bikes are for a heap hobby that still allows me to play around on two wheels....

 

[fatdaddy]

Yup Map, thats about what I do. Make sure nothings gonna fall off and make it as safe as possible. If I do my job right, nobody should get hurt. Just a good solid build is what I try to accomplish on every one. nothing fancy.
fatdaddy.

 

[DRBS]

I think its funny most of the ppl that call about the bikes they say I charge too much then they go look at other ppl selling them and they almost always come back to me and buy there bike I use Loctite on all bolts and use only 8 grade bolts on the sprocket double arm kickstands and dual brake cables charging 400+ for these is a good price

 

[Davezilla]

I think its funny most of the ppl that call about the bikes they say I charge too much then they go look at other ppl selling them and they almost always come back to me and buy there bike I use Loctite on all bolts and use only 8 grade bolts on the sprocket double arm kickstands and dual brake cables charging 400+ for these is a good price

At $400 that's a steal for a good solid build with no frills, just the bike, the engine, and everything done right... I see people selling these on craigslist for $700 and up and the engines are just thrown onto a used bike so it's pretty obvious these bikes are just thrown together and put up for sale.
i got a customer's bike in my shop that I've been working as time permits (luckily he's in no hurry, just wants everything to be done right) and whoever built that one took every shortcut known to man... then made up a few more shortcuts putting his together. This guy bought it thinking this was how they all are until he saw mine and now he wants me to correct all the mistakes on his then do similar upgrades like the fred head and a real pipe etc... his pipe looked like it went thru a meat grinder when he brought it to me and it was kinked and dented so badly i just took it off and threw it away in favor of putting a different pipe on for him. The bike now has a new engine with a very mild port job, a stock pipe ready to be bent properly to fit, new cables so they're not wrapped around the frame several times to fit the bike, totally new mounts front and rear, his engine was just bolted to a thin aluminum strap up front and teh guy who built it used some long spacers between the rear mount block and the engine so the engine sits in an awkward position etc.. I've spent hours redoing things on his bike just to get it mounted in the frame right and to get rid of all the excess wire and cables that were wrapped around everything instead of being trimmed to fit etc...

 

[fatdaddy]

Its amazing that people think there's nothing to putting one of these together RIGHT, Untill they see one put together WRONG, Or try to ride a WRONG bike. Tell those fools to go get that craigslist bike for $700. Yeah, I saw that one. Just a plain, no frills build by some newbie, I'm sure. I saw that ad and upped my price by $50.
fatdaddy.

 

[DRBS]

I know. I have a guy trying to trade me a bike he bought for one of mine told him ill take 100 off that's all he said I was a rip off I told him you already got ripped off!!!!

 

[fatdaddy]

I know. I have a guy trying to trade me a bike he bought for one of mine told him ill take 100 off that's all he said I was a rip off I told him you already got ripped off!!!!

I hope the idiot turned purple when you told him that. Trying to get a bike right that someone else put together is TWICE the work or more. Ya gotta deal with all the crap the dude "Customized" trying to force things together. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. DONT LIKE IT.
fatdaddy.