Cantilever's vs V brake's

[fatdaddy]

I like V brakes best also and I have one old MTN bike with the canti lever brakes that is OK.

some of my bikes are just set up for the Caliper Brakes which do a good job if they're good quality C Brake units and you use good quality shoes on them.

I just ordered this set for one of my bikes just a few minutes ago, these are good ones and at a good price.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=271595017629&alt=web

KC is dead on right, a front and rear C brake is way better than none at all and will do a much better job than an old wore out K-Stop coaster hub only like comes on a lot of the big box store bikes.

Caliper brakes on a motorized, NO WAY BRO, They work loose at the mount bolt And that same bolt will SNAP under constant 30mph abuse. I tried to tell my shop manager about them, His reply was, I'm only gonna use em untill I find better ones, He got better ones sooner than expected when the entire assembly wound up in his spokes. He's a believer now. Cantilever or V brakes, either one works Ok for motorized. Calipers are fine on a regular kids bike. I learned my lesson the first 6 months into building motorized bikes. The first time one fell apart on me. And by the way, they were Dia-compe's. and no argument here about disc being best.
fatdaddy.

 

[mapbike]

I get your point boxcar, you like a dual lever and you havent had an issue, Im happy about that but get up to 20mph, get in a turn on pavement covered with gravel or loose dirt, get enough brake pressure to skid front tire and get back with me with results....lol

Im done with this discussion, it going nowhere, bottom line is any front braking in a turn on loose surface will cause a front tire to skid and when that happens you are going down...... anyone who doesn't realize this fact is just being stubborn to be quite honest about it, or theyve never rode motorcycles or bikes much, Im not saying a dual lever wont work or cant work, im saying its not the safest set up when turning if the road is slick for any reason or if you're on loose dirt, this isnt my opinion its a cold hard fact plain and simple and that is all my point about using a dual pull brake lever has been.

 

[mapbike]

Caliper brakes on a motorized, NO WAY BRO, They work loose at the mount bolt And that same bolt will SNAP under constant 30mph abuse. I tried to tell my shop manager about them, His reply was, I'm only gonna use em untill I find better ones, He got better ones sooner than expected when the entire assembly wound up in his spokes. He's a believer now. Cantilever or V brakes, either one works Ok for motorized. Calipers are fine on a regular kids bike. I learned my lesson the first 6 months into building motorized bikes. The first time one fell apart on me. And by the way, they were Dia-compe's. and no argument here about disc being best.
fatdaddy.

logged thousands of miles since 2009 on bikes using caliper type brakes and never a single issue, they dont concern me at all as far as safety goes, they are however the worst of the brakes as far as getting you slowed down or stopped quickly, in my experience they offer the same weak stopping power as center pull brakes do, but as KC has said and I agree, they're better than nothing at all.

personally I like a good Shimano coaster rear hub and a V brake up front, and yes disec is even better, Ideally Id like to have Coaster rear and good disc up front.

 

[boxcar]

Well it all comes down to riding the machine and riding the conditions.

The machine has peddles not pegs . This pretty much makes a rear brake foot peddle un-viable.
The coaster brake system is a non starter .
I'v destroyed Shimano / Sturmey Archer coasters on 20 " bmx bikes .
I won't be caught riding one pushed up to 30 or 40 mph by an engine on a 26" bike.

Running a brake actuator and clutch lever on the same side of the bike just doesn't allow enough time for sudden traffic stops.

Conditions are a huge factor. If it's wet and or gravel or sand is present , SLOW DOWN...... Ride the conditions.

anyone who doesn't realize this fact is just being stubborn to be quite honest about it, or theyve never rode motorcycles or bikes much,

That's a pretty strong statement .

I have been riding and building bikes for many many years.
Both custom road bikes and off road machines .
I have never seen a front end wash out that was the bikes fault, always the riders.

I will always advise running a dual actuating braking system on all Motorized Bicycles that are ridden in town , on city streets .
It is the simplest , most reliable system for suddenly stopping the machine.
Is it without draw backs ? No....
But it is the best approach to the problem.

Now if you are riding off road or on gravel all the time a split braking system would be an advantage , complex to operate in a hurry , but an advantage.

That's not what we are discussing here though.

Most motorized bikes are used in urban settings. Where the 4000 - 6000 pound car or truck shares the road with you. And by the way, rarely sees you coming.....

If you have to think about how to actuate your brakes , you have already taken to long and are now a statistic.

Just my thinking on the issue. Not meant to offend anyone......

Be safe out there...........

 

[KCvale]

Here is something different...
It does nothing to solve 3 levers but for you 'nothing but disc' guys interesting and most likely junk for $210 delivered.

http://www.amazon.com/Double-Suspen...oor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1427902987&sr=1-59

Double Disc Brake Suspension fork Off-road Mountain Bike

Dual rotors on the front disc.
Kind of reminds me of razor blades, they keep adding blades ;-}

 

[fatdaddy]

I know I'm gonna catch crap over this, But I've used the dual pull levers and This is how I made myself feel a little safer about it. Of course if ya hit the front brakes hard in a wet turn, yer gonna slide. So I adjusted MOST of the braking to the rear wheel, So it locks up first. I know most of the good stopping power is in yer front brake, but if ya get two brakes involved then its (almost) just as good, and yer front wont lock and slide. Worked for me for years without a spill. And I will NEVER trust coaster brakes again. I've had them lock up in a turn more than once and dump my old arse on the ASSphalt. THats why they call it assphalt, cause its your FAULT if ya wind up on yer ARSE
fatdaddy.

 

[mapbike]

Here is something different...
It does nothing to solve 3 levers but for you 'nothing but disc' guys interesting and most likely junk for $210 delivered.

http://www.amazon.com/Double-Suspen...oor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1427902987&sr=1-59

Double Disc Brake Suspension fork Off-road Mountain Bike

Dual rotors on the front disc.
Kind of reminds me of razor blades, they keep adding blades ;-}

Nice looking bike... never seen that one before.

 

[mapbike]

I know I'm gonna catch crap over this, But I've used the dual pull levers and This is how I made myself feel a little safer about it. Of course if ya hit the front brakes hard in a wet turn, yer gonna slide. So I adjusted MOST of the braking to the rear wheel, So it locks up first. I know most of the good stopping power is in yer front brake, but if ya get two brakes involved then its (almost) just as good, and yer front wont lock and slide. Worked for me for years without a spill. And I will NEVER trust coaster brakes again. I've had them lock up in a turn more than once and dump my old arse on the ASSphalt. THats why they call it assphalt, cause its your FAULT if ya wind up on yer ARSE
fatdaddy.

Yep I agree setting it up like you described would definitely be the best way...

Ive been put on the ground from using just a little to much front brake myself, and it aint fun and i5 was on a firm road surface that just had some loose gravel, as I went to turn, front brake didnt even completely lock up, just enough brake to cause it to skid a little and once it started it didnt stop until I was on my hands and one knee, gashed my hand, ripped my kee out of my jeans, gravel in the palm of my hand and knee, I was determined as 8 went down not to face plant.

made that same turn many many times in that area with using rear brake only and never a problem, then wouldn't you know it the first time I applied just a little front brake to slow down a little quicker.... BAM....!!! He Down....lol!

I wish all would understand that Im not mad or trying to be hateful about any of this, I know several use dual pull levers and have had a good experience with them, m6 feason for not using one is because of the wreck or close calls Ive had in my life because of front tire skid on Bicycles and motorcycles, I personally want full independent control of my brakes for that reason and was just expressing why I think in several instances the dual pull lever could get you in trouble while making a turn and needing to be a little aggressive on the brakes.

I dont want my front brake engaging at all and under any circumstance unless Im going in a straight line and thats just my personal preference because of the wrecks Ive had and seen other have.

But just like you said fatdaddy, if you can adjust the front to have a much smaller percentage and it works for where and how you ride, thats great and is really all that matters, where I rride there is lots of loose dirt and gravel so I primarily use my rear brake and only get on the front in certain areas and only when riding in a straight line, never in a turn will I apply and front brake, doesnt matter in Im on one of my 5 motorized bicycles on My 692lb Harley Davidson, my Old 1982 Yamaha XJ650 Maxim or my 150cc Chinese scooter, the scooter will actually buck you off the quickest......lol those dang wide 13" wheels are slick on anything but good pavement and Ive got good Avon tires on it.

Im sorry if Ive offended anyone with my comments on this subject, has never been my intention, I just have a strong conviction about it because I sure hate to see people get hurt.

 

[mapbike]

Well it all comes down to riding the machine and riding the conditions.

The machine has peddles not pegs . This pretty much makes a rear brake foot peddle un-viable.
The coaster brake system is a non starter .
I'v destroyed Shimano / Sturmey Archer coasters on 20 " bmx bikes .
I won't be caught riding one pushed up to 30 or 40 mph by an engine on a 26" bike.

Running a brake actuator and clutch lever on the same side of the bike just doesn't allow enough time for sudden traffic stops.

Conditions are a huge factor. If it's wet and or gravel or sand is present , SLOW DOWN...... Ride the conditions.



That's a pretty strong statement .

I have been riding and building bikes for many many years.
Both custom road bikes and off road machines .
I have never seen a front end wash out that was the bikes fault, always the riders.

I will always advise running a dual actuating braking system on all Motorized Bicycles that are ridden in town , on city streets .
It is the simplest , most reliable system for suddenly stopping the machine.
Is it without draw backs ? No....
But it is the best approach to the problem.

Now if you are riding off road or on gravel all the time a split braking system would be an advantage , complex to operate in a hurry , but an advantage.

That's not what we are discussing here though.

Most motorized bikes are used in urban settings. Where the 4000 - 6000 pound car or truck shares the road with you. And by the way, rarely sees you coming.....

If you have to think about how to actuate your brakes , you have already taken to long and are now a statistic.

Just my thinking on the issue. Not meant to offend anyone......

Be safe out there...........

I agree its rider error if you have independent braking for front and rear and you apply to much for the front while in a turn and skid the front wheel and go down because of it.

I dont see rider error being the blame if you have only one lever that gives you no choice but to apply front wheel braking and this is my only point.

you are correct about riding conditions, many of us dont ride under the same conditions, my statements regarding the dual pull lever are aimed at my perso al riding conditions and anyone else who may ride in ares where its common to encounter areas on the pavement 2hers there can be loose dirt or gravel on the roads especially around turn at intersections which is very common in some places, I completely understand that much of 2hat some of us do with our bikes isn't a one size fits all deal since we dont all ride the same, all weigh the same and dont all ride on the same type road conditions.

Ive actually thought about trying a dual pull lever on one of my bikes several times, but then I think about all places I ride and how I know it would likely lead to another notch in my crash belt and I think...... nah.... I want to be in control of those brakes for when and how 8 want to use them.

Didn't intend to come on to strong boxcar, its so hard to express things onhere sometime because with out hearing tone in the voice or body language the attitude behind what is said is just up for interpretation and things can get misunderstood so easy because of that, sorry if I offened you with anything Ive said here, God is my witness it was never my intent to come across as angry or super confrontational.

Peace, Map

 

[boxcar]

Hey man , No worry's. We all get caught up in the moment at times.......

When this conversation started I had just returned from a ride to the bike shop.
A , not so nice ( not the words I'd like to use here ) guy in a pick up truck decided to
turn in front of me ( after we made eye contact ) at an intersection.
I went from 25 mph to ZERO in about 25 feet .
Had I not had gooooooood brakes , I'd be part of that truck.
The guy actually hit his horn and waved at me after nearly killing me......... Richard Cranium ..........
Any way , this was still in my mind when this post came up.... And yes I'm still Pisssssssssssssssssssssssss't. ( i'm being loud here )...
Lucky me , this is a small town and I own a BIGGER TRUCK..... We will see each other again.....
I like the disk brake bike shown in the attachment. Look's racy.....

 

[mapbike]

Hey man , No worry's. We all get caught up in the moment at times.......

When this conversation started I had just returned from a ride to the bike shop.
A , not so nice ( not the words I'd like to use here ) guy in a pick up truck decided to
turn in front of me ( after we made eye contact ) at an intersection.
I went from 25 mph to ZERO in about 25 feet .
Had I not had gooooooood brakes , I'd be part of that truck.
The guy actually hit his horn and waved at me after nearly killing me......... Richard Cranium ..........
Any way , this was still in my mind when this post came up.... And yes I'm still Pisssssssssssssssssssssssss't. ( i'm being loud here )...
Lucky me , this is a small town and I own a BIGGER TRUCK..... We will see each other again.....
I like the disk brake bike shown in the attachment. Look's racy.....

Oh yeah, we passionate type tend to get a bit to passionate sometimes, I never try to come off in an angry tone or trying to be a jerk to anyone, but we all have our strong opinions and convictions for reasons we have justified in our own minds for our own reasons.....

I dont know if it would work or not but I've even considered getting a dual pull lever and having clutch and rear brake hooked up to it, so that a third of the pull would disengage the clutch without engaging the brake and then from that poi t on it was the rear brake lever also, that would be a bit tricky for some maybe but if the adjustment could be made right that might be a unique way to have two rim brakes and the clutch with only two levers.

My favorite set up so far is a good coaster hub on the rear and either a V brake or Disc on the front.

Well, I guess we've said about all we can on this subject and in my opinion no one is wrong, just different preferences for different reasons and there aint a thing wrong with that.

Many times even the heated or more agressive discussions are opportunities to learn and so I always consider everything thats said and then rethink my own thinking to see if my opinions are really what they should be based on facts and the experiences of others.

I love the heck out of this forum because of all the great people here that we can have these talks with about all kinds of things even when we dont agree 100% we can move ahead and be friends and still help each other and learn from each other, just not many places to do this, but we have it here and thats an excellent thing.

Peace, Map