Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

Essentially, you advocate being sneaky and grovelling. Well done!

I've enjoyed your comments on bikes and viewed your quite good taste of same.

Are you familiar with the witty exchange between your Prime minister Churchill & I if I recall correctly Oscar Wilde? It goes something like this. A delivery was made to Churchill consisting of two tickets to the opening night performance of Mr. Wilde's new play & a personal note which read, "Dear Winston I hope you will attend the opening night performance of my most recent production, enclosed are two tickets for you and a friend...if you have one!" To which the Prime Minister tersely replied, "Sorry old fellow I've a prior engagement and won't be able to attend opening night, but will be sure to be present for the following nights performance...if their is one!"

Vinegar and honey one works the other is just sour. Keep building & writing, I like! Rick C.

 

[Ludwig II]

It was George Bernard Shaw, not Wilde. Wilde died in Paris from tertiary syphilis, I think. His dying words were reported as "Either that wallpaper goes or I do."

 

[indian22]

Good catch Ludwig, & another memorable quote from the "Wilde man", I think we'll get on well.> Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Done deal on the engine transplant for the Simplex. I've gone for the Honda CG-150 which is a single overhead cam vertical engine design with 12v electric & kick start. Develops 13.3 hp and 9.1 ft. lbs. of torque...new engine but an older design used extensively in Brazilian manufactured m and world wide but not seen much here in the States. Very similar in size and appearence to the CB-150 OHV which is common here. Should be in my hands in next couple of weeks. I'll try to post a photo. Weighs in I'm told at around 50 lbs. dry wt.
I'm skeptical about the engine dimensions I was given, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[silverbear]

That sounds like plenty of power and nice that it has both electric & kick start. It has built in gears? Will you be able to run lights off of the engine?
SB

 

[indian22]

Yes SB has built in 5 speed gear clusters and 12v output for lights and accessories. Just got back from the mythical barn where all the goodies come from. More treasures located, brake pedal, foot rest pads and a Simplex seat pan in great condition for recovering. Life is wonderful, can't wait to dive back in there and find the Holy grail or King Arthurs Excaliber...so yes I believe in myths.

 

[indian22]

A few clarifiications about my choice of a Honda design CG-150 engine for this build. After considering the space to be filled in the chassis and the look I was after and the use the bike is intended for,I selected a 4 cycle engine for my personal use, not because I dislike 2 cycles. I normally select 2 cycles for my tribute bikes & I considered KTM & other integrated engine & transmission 2 cycles for this project, any one of which would have been a good choice. The Honda clone engines were considered and rejected not because I didn't think they were excellent candidates, they were...for single speed builds. I wanted 4 cycle OHV/OHC, multi-speed integrated 5speed transmission, kick/electric start (bad shoulder so pull start is not my best option for personal use), light weight, small size, vertical cylinder design, with well placed mounting points, over 12 hp, 12v electrics with simple CDI, proven design and decent fuel mileage report (68.6 mpg for a 350 lb. motorcycle 10,000 mile average) that's readily available and moderately priced under $500 with decent parts availibility and an attractively styled appearance.

Lot of criteria involved in proper power and power train selection, for any motor driven project. I've gone through the mental gymnastics for over 50 years with multiple projects on bikes and automotive. Street rides and racing use also enter into and greatly complicate or clarify the designers decision regarding power selection.

Personal conversations with other builders, none of these members of this fine forum, prompted this post about what I consider the basics of power selection & certainly is not intended to be exhaustive let alone complete.

My suggestion is think it through before spending and building. Rick C

 

[silverbear]

Rick,
It sounds like a good engine choice for what you want. Giving long thought to the engine choice is like "creative staring" at the whole bike. Together they lead to a good plan and in the end what you wanted and a bike to be proud of. With the power of the engine and multi speeds this sounds like it is going to be a pretty capable ride. Fast, nimble and light weight. Vroom... Oh boy!
SB

 

[racie35]

The serial number is on the bottom of the flat area right behind the fork tube.

 

[Ludwig II]

Having raced a CG125, I can say from experience, the cam profile on these engines makes them into (for their size) grunt monsters. They aren't particularly fast on the top, but the takeoff is phenomenal. We'd make up 3 rows on the starting grid when the lights changed, often having to take to the grass to go round the mob in front.

A 150 should be even better.

 

[dirtyoldcrusier]

Hey, Indian 22 ; looks like a great project. Just seen a simplex at the car show last night. It looks like they are belt driven, like a whizzer. Don't know if it ran, the belt was missing on it. I tried to wait around to see if the owner was there to ask questions or see if he would possibly sell it.But know one seen him that night. I would of loved to try to buy it, cause it looked like a great project as well. I too will tune in to see this one progress, good luck & can't wait to see more pics as you build it.

anyhow here are a few shots of it.

 

[racie35]

Is there room for that engine? The tank brace on a simplex is fairly low ...I gained a few inches or less by using a tank strap...isn't on yet but its easy to do. Later sportsman frames have a little more room ....and you could always mount like a motorcycle on lugs and lose that bottom plate to gain maybe another 3\4"

 

[indian22]

Having raced a CG125, I can say from experience, the cam profile on these engines makes them into (for their size) grunt monsters. They aren't particularly fast on the top, but the takeoff is phenomenal. We'd make up 3 rows on the starting grid when the lights changed, often having to take to the grass to go round the mob in front.

A 150 should be even better.

Thanks for sharing your experience with these little motors as I have none by which to judge. I'm excited by your reference to great bottom end punch which is what I'd hoped for...spec sheet shows 9 lbs. of torque but your real world racing experience really relates what I wanted to know. At this point in life I'm not interested in the top end speed of anything beyond the hypothetical, I'll leave that to younger mates! 150cc is better makes my day. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Thanks for the Simplex photos Dirty OC. That one would be a great candidate for a total refurb or cleaned up & running...leave just as is. Nice, let us know if you can get with the owner and make a deal.

 

[indian22]

Is there room for that engine? The tank brace on a simplex is fairly low ...I gained a few inches or less by using a tank strap...isn't on yet but its easy to do. Later sportsman frames have a little more room ....and you could always mount like a motorcycle on lugs and lose that bottom plate to gain maybe another 3\4"

Now that's a great question & in light of just posting a "rant" about proper utilization of frame space in my other thread "Indian flavor/sabor" I'll just confess & say it might not. I posted earlier that I was dubious about the information I found on the CG 150 engine dimensions. Most of the posts were written in Portugese and Youtube audio the same.

Motor should be on it's way & if my info is correct, then no problems. Since this is to be a "modified" build and not a pure restoration I'm only bound by the limit of my imagination and tools and the inclination to real-engineer frame, motor mounts, motor plate...whatever, just add to the fun and challenge lol.

Hardcore Simplex lovers probably despise resto/mods anyway, so I've apologized for my retarded ways up front... yet again. Having fun! Rick C.

 

[indian22]

The serial number is on the bottom of the flat area right behind the fork tube.

Think I'll have to remove some more layers of paint to find that number, just glad you confirmed there is a frame number as well as engine# for the Simplex. With a frame # and an expert [sic] inspection I'm cautiously becoming more confident about the prospect of registration in Oklahoma. Thanks for your info! RC

 

[silverbear]

Regarding the issue of full restoration and what I consider more a matter of doing things "in the spirit of"' to each their own. With a vintage bike that is almost original, sure stay as close as you can to being original. But when you are looking at pretty much an old frame and a couple of original parts it is cost prohibitive and sometimes nearly impossible to come up with the original stuff even if you have the doremi.

I once found a 1950 Schwinn straight bar frame at my local dump which still had the seat , one wheel and a bent front fork. I used it as the foundation for what is now my American Flyer which has a four stroke engine and canoe sidecar. I know there are those who consider the alterations a kind of vintage bicycle blasphemy. I could not afford a real restoration and I wanted a motorbike anyway. The bike was in the public dump under a pile of other discarded metal. So far as I see it, I salvaged that frame, saved it from the crusher and gave it a new life as a motorbike. The same people who might criticize what I did would applaud if it were a restored Whizzer, even a kit add on from the day. People have always modified their motorcycles and bicycles, making them their own like having your hand print on the side of your Indian pony. If someone else wants a factory fresh looking Simplex and can afford it that's great. But my guess is that your Simplex will be faster, have better brakes and may even look better than a mint restoration. If it could be taken back to when other guys bought their Simplex bikes new and compared, I bet some of those guys would want to trade you.
SB

 

[dirtyoldcrusier]

Bummed out, Owner of Simplex not selling. Will hand down to family members when he is tired of it.So i didn't stick around to ask about it. Kinda like a sore sport, but hey maybe i will see on later in life.

 

[silverbear]

Dirty old cruiser,
There's another one out there with your name on it. Patience. And bare frames come up on ebay now and then. With a frame as the foundation you can make your own Simplex better than the original.
SB

 

[racie35]

There are frames out there for sure...I bought 3 last year easily. What's hard to find are the tank,fenders and engines.