Velocar cyclecar semi-replica.

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Thanks Silverbear Yes I've been really enjoying this improvement in my health, only I'm going to have to be sensible and make sure I don't try rushing at everything all at once. One piece at a time will be my motto and I guess once I've made enough pieces I'll end up with a cyclecar

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Well. That makes sense; it's just a CV joint. I knew they existed before the 1926 Tracta came into being. I think the Colombe is 1925? Maybe? So I think you have one of the earliest forms of CV-driven front-wheel-drive here. Now, even though the 1900 Société Parisienne Victoria had front drive, its engine was mounted on the front fork like a Bike Bug or Velosolex, so the Colombe is actually really innovative.

True enough Allen, I knew there was some kind of CV joint in there, - only the actual details couldn't be seen in all the existing photos of these little cyclecars. I knew there was a brake in there as well, but again the details always seemed to be obscured.
The Colombe cyclecars were used for 350cc class record breaking and were apparently quite successful. Somehow I've ended up with a love for these quirky little vehicles and since I haven't a hope of owning the real thing (only 8 survivors worldwide) making my own one seems like a fun thing to do.



I have a nice prewar Villiers engine and gearbox that I think would be just the job for this tribute replica. I think the engine is about 150cc only with having not yet stripped it down to check it over I couldn't be certain about that. The Colombe cyclecars used two stroke engines originally, but I think the Villards were built with both two and four stroke engines.

 

[moto-klasika]

Annie,

​

Following attached photos I found wonderful album made by your twin-sister
Wilda Greenbough! Strange that she had all the photos of small cute motorised vehicles that you like, and me too!
Villard/Colombay is wonderful three-wheeler for two persons, even for leisurely cruising, without record-braking! However, I still think that its front-wheel power and steering is unnecessary complication for otherwise small and simple auto.
For FF motorcycles (feet-forward), in UK could be bought front wheel with central steering king-pin inside the hub, so that front suspension could be of any type, independent of steering. But, not with front-wheel drive for them, even it could be possible... A lot of machine work that I couldn't understand and for sure couldn't do...
But – some people can make replica of it, including you! Then, you shall have almost original vehicle!

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Yes Wilda likes old cars too Zoran

My plan is to modify the front CV joint from a front wheel drive car which would be easier than trying to exactly reproduce the Colombe/Villard design. A Villiers two stroke engine is not going to wear out a modern car CV joint no matter how much I drive my cyclecar about so it should be pretty much fit and forget.
I have a small dilemma though, I can buy a second hand Peugeot CV joint and axle for $NZ20.00 or I can buy a Toyota CV joint and axle for the same sum. Both would work fine, but part of me would like to use the Peugeot one because it's French. Toyotas are far more common here than Peugeots so if I needed any small parts to set up the conversion it would be more sensible to use a Toyota CV and axle. Decisions, decisions......

A spot of luck was being able to buy a NOS Robin petrol tank on clearance. This should be absolutely perfect for the cyclecar as it should tuck into place quite easily.

 

[silverbear]

Will you need an electric fuel pump to move the fuel to the carburetor?
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Will you need an electric fuel pump to move the fuel to the carburetor?
SB

Hopefully not SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Just to explain a bit further the petrol tank will be in the cowl over the engine so gravity should do all the work of getting fuel to the carburettor. I'll paint the tank black and etch up a makers plate for it which reads, - 'Intrepid Société des Ingénieurs', - so nobody will know it's a Robin tank

I ended up purchasing the Peugeot CV joint and axle partly because the chap selling it offered it to me for half price and partly because I think it would be nice to actually have French parts in the transmission. Using a Villiers engine and gearbox will be fine because they were used in France under a licencing arrangement.
Did I mention that I also have a prewar French numberplate which will be going on my cyclecar too (Sorry, no picture of that it's all wrapped up out in my workshop).

 

[moto-klasika]

For Annie,
From old family album found in antiquariat - maybe some female ancestors from mother's side?
Ciao, Zoran

 

[moto-klasika]

...and, now: something quite different!
Front-wheel drive older than a century: Christie's racers, mostly quite gigantic, some with 20 litres capacity from in-line-four or V-4 engines. Pity - designer wasn't succesful in that and didn't make fortune, but was better luck with his ultral-light and super-fast tanks during thirties...
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Looking again at your pictures with Colonbe/Villard front suspension-steering-transmission, it seems to me that I understand all that better. However, it is quite different than universal joints used for front-wheel-drive cars, where U.J. is beside a wheel. (on the end of camshaft and before the wheel's hub)

1. In this case, U.J. is in the hub?
2. Hub rotate with U.J. and turn left-rigth over it?
3. Power-axle isn't "broken" but always in straight position (on each side of wheel's hub), just revolving togahter with U.J. - and hub?

I am sure that you will see that better than myself and that you can make it in your workshop! I would run-away from such solution as too complicated for me.
Ciao, Zoran

​

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Zoran, those pictures from the 'family album' really made me smile this morning. Actually with the last picture of the fascinating motorcycle I could just imagine my Mum's mother riding something like that as she was a pretty darn intrepid lady when she was young.

With the modern CV joint I'm going to do some mods so the axle itself is supported in bearings with the hub end being free to move as part of the front wheel hub. The final result will function in the same way as the Colombe/Villard system, only I'll be using a modern CV joint instead of having to try and make the original parts from scratch.

 

[moto-klasika]

... I am glad that made you smiling!
(searching and tuning photos for two hours)

My grandmother was one quite interpid young woman, born 1905 in Bosnia! Quite conservative surrounding, even now, with huge Muslim comunity. Kids were always trying to see "motor" hearing it in mountain woods but never cought it! Just could feel a smell of its fumes when arrived on its path and found a few oil drops on macadam roads... When she tried to ride cousin's bicycle, older brothers "make her a lesson" (quite painful) about how young girls from decent family should behave! Bicycles were consider as devil's vehicle (seating and going at the same time), especially quite imoral for young girls! Her desire was to be passenger on motorcycle but my brother never dared to take her for a ride...
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I was thinking in old terms - no more cross-type universal joints, but modern C.V. joints. Your plans looks to me quite good and real. Waiting to se realisation, even I would never make somehting like that.

Ciao, Zoran

​

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Yes it took a while for the notion that bicycle riding was an unseemly occupation for a lady to fade away (sigh). Of course the simple truth was that bicycles were totally liberating for women which upset many conservative minded folk.

The vendor for the Peugeot CV and axle has been in touch and is presently looking to see if he has the drive flange as well which is the only other part I need in order to setup the front drive on my cyclecar.

I've been amusing myself with working up measurements for the body using enlarged printouts of period drawings and illustrations as a guide. I'm no great carpenter, but I think I should be able to do a tidy job of putting together the body framing.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Late this afternoon I spent a couple of really good creative hours in my workshop which made me very happy indeed. I'm still having to be careful about not pushing myself too hard as the latest test results that came back aren't all that flash, but I couldn't be bothered with just sitting around.

First I had to clear all the accumulated junk that had ended up on top of the chassis, but it didn't take long before all was cleared away and I could make a start. One problem with having a technically minded daughter is that all the tools I wanted were in the house scattered around her electric bicycle. Soooooo after collecting them up I returned to my workshop. If I had a daughter who was the kind that went 'squeee' over Justin Bieber I wouldn't have this problem, but then on the other hand if I did have a daughter who went 'squeee' over Justin Bieber I would have taken her back to the hospital long ago and told them they'd given me the wrong baby.

That lovely Villiers engine and gearbox have been carefully stored away for ages awaiting a project that's worthy of them. I'm following the Colombe cyclecar's engine placement as it's the most logical way to do it and there will be a jackshaft to carry the engine's modest horsepower over to the left hand side and the chain drive to the front wheel.
The ATV axle is only there for mockup purposes as I need to get a length of inch shafting to make the actual axle I will be using. When building a replica of a French cyclecar you know you have the dimensions right when the rear numberplate is almost as wide as the rear of the cyclecar. That numberplate is pre-EEC French and is a special numberplate that was issued to foreign owners who were driving a French car they'd purchased out of France and weren't likely to bring it back again. It was a spot of good luck finding that numberplate and is just the detail I wanted for my cyclecar.

Tea is essential for creative staring by the way, though I must write to the makers of my arc welder and point out that their products might be very good, but they are not very comfortable to sit on.

 

[silverbear]

What is the displacement on the engine? How many speed is the gearbox? I like the looks of the head... very cool. Good to see you puttering about in your shop, Anne.

Your weather must be getting warm as ours is getting colder. Snow is here to stay in forests of northern Minnesota, USA. Lakes are freezing over and the ground is now chunk style. The ax of winter has fallen... "thunk". So I will picture New Zealand going green with lush new growth where birds are singing as they make nests for their young and keep in mind that with patience the pendulum will swing back the other way again. Enjoy your spring/summer as we bears prepare for hibernation. Our time will come.
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

The engine is around 150cc, but I've never actually taken it apart to measure it precisely. I have a sporty twin port Villiers barrel and piston that would fit on the engine's bottom end, only I'm reluctant to mess about with such an old engine that's in good condition. The last think I would want to do is make a mess of it just because I was trying to squeak an extra 1/2 horsepower out of it.
The gearbox is a hand change three speed which seems to be in resonable shape. A cotter type bicycle pedal arm fits perfectly to make a kickstarter, only i think I'm going to have to bend a kink in it so it will clear the engine.

Green new growth we do have SB, but the weather has been really dreadful with heavy rain, hail and thunderstorms. I'm hoping that my young fruit trees won't get too knocked around by the weather and lose their new buds. While I'm not much of a gardener I'm hoping we will get better weather soon so I can have a potter about and at least pretend I know what I'm doing.
Snug down and keep warm SB. The thing I enjoy most about living in the country is being able to watch the change and cycle of the seasons and as you say before long we will have our own turn at watching the green leaves of Summer turn golden brown then fall as Winter presses in.

 

[moto-klasika]

Annie,

​

Until "Europesation", France had beautiful number plates... but now, all of them are the same everywhere! I do not know why, but France had a few different colours for plates? Italy had cute white letters and numbers on black plates, Holland yellow plates and Belgium red letters and numbers (or white letters and numbers on red plates?) - at least as I remeber...
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Great thing that you re-started your work on Villard replica, or it will be Colombe? What amblem is more cute? Looking nice with that old engine on wooden chassis with quarter-eliptic springs at rear...

Ciao, Zoran

​

 

[fasteddy]

Anne,

I think a brief letter to the manufacturer of your welded is indeed in order. At the very least they could offer a suitable cushion as a low cost option. I have a couple of stools of the type that can be found at the counters of auto parts stores at least on this side of the world.
I use these at the work bench. I have two so at least there is a chance one won't be piled high with junk.

The scoot around is either a low mechanics stool or preferably the old office chair which has a back on it so I can relieve the various parts that hurt by leaning backwards and shifting my weight. Upon occasion I've forgotten that I'm on the mechanics stool and the ensuing scramble is worthy of a You Tube video.

Your frame is looking wonderful and certainly gives us an idea the direction the build is going. I keep thinking with there only being 8 of the cars left how fortunate you are to have someone finally put photos on the web so you can see how the steering was done. A major hurdle removed.

And your right. Money can't buy happiness but $4.88 Canadian can purchase 400 grams of Belgian chocolate in many different combinations at Walmart and that is most certainly as close to happiness as I need to be.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Yes Steve I agree I really do need a stool or an old office chair in my workshop so I can rest my limbs and sip a cup of tea while plotting out the next step. In many ways being delayed by illness on this project has been beneficial because it's given me time to research the design and think through the various aspects of the build. Otherwise if I'd rushed ahead with my first ideas I think I would be regretting it now.
My brothers had one of those scoot around low mechanics stools, - an old much knocked around battered looking thing, - and I can just imagine what would happen if you forgot it didn't have a backrest and leaned back too far. Very useful it was all the same though

It was the most fortunate piece of luck that the owner of that Villard cyclecar published those photos on the 'net. Useful Colombe/Villard photos are very scarce and by doing that he increased what was available by around 100%. I've just heard back from the chap with the Peugeot CV and axle, - yes he does have a drive flange, - so that's going to give me a real head start.
My plan is to mount the drive flange the opposite way around so I can get the wheel centre directly over the top of the CV joint. Or that's at least what I hope to do.
Once the Peugeot parts arrive I'll sketch the whole suspension/steering/drive arrangement out full size on a piece of plywood so I can properly plot out what needs to be done in the way of modding the Peugeot bits. Fabricating this lot is going to be the trickiest part of the build, but I'm actually really looking forward to it

And yes gentlemen I'm very pleased to be back working on my cyclecar. I've missed the delight of cutting and shaping parts in order to create something that wasn't there before and owning and driving a vintage cyclecar is something I've always wanted to do.

Zoran, essentially I'm following the Colombe cyclecar design with the final version of front suspension they were using before Villard took over the design. The Colombe was a bit smaller than the Villard and I like the general layout and shape of the Colombe's bodywork over the later Villard. I am going to call my cyclecar an 'Intrepid' (or should that be 'Intrepide'?) though as it's not a true replica and I don't want to deceive anybody that it is.



Oooooo Belgian chocolate, Steve you are sooooo fortunate. It's not so easy to find here, but when I do....... heaven.....

 

[fasteddy]

The office chair would have my vote and I use mine the most. Needs larger and better castors which are on the list next time I'm out.

The tri car was hard to start building because with the few photos available every one wanted to have the side shot from 20 feet away or I was peering through the spokes while trying to guess what it looked like but as time went on and I'd built most of it, I did see photos that showed me what I'd done wrong.

What chocolate is your preference? Dark which is available plain or milk plain, or with nuts, or fruit. I may be able to help.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Steve I actually have a great weakness for dark chilli chocolate of which our local supermarket stocks a Swiss made variety. It's my special treat for when I feel I've been especially good
Otherwise dark fruit chocolate is my favourite choice and thankyou very much for your thoughtfulness.
Ha ha, - I've just realised that my daughter is going to look at me very strangely if I receive chocolate from a mysterious gentleman from overseas. That thought just cheered me up no end, - not that I was unhappy to start with or anything.

Yes I know what you mean with trying to find meaning in blurry old photos and unhelpful illustrations that don't completely show all the mechanical details. Despite that though Steve your tri-car is a real credit to your skill and patience with doing your best to get all the details right.

I didn't do a lot today as I was feeling tired from yesterdays efforts. However I did do a fair bit of checking measurements and general planning of the body framing. The original Colombe had a steel chassis frame, but with my wooden version I'm going to build the body as a unit on the wooden chassis which should make the final result very strong. I stole the idea from the Carden cyclecar which is why I'm calling what I'm building a 'semi-replica'.

I'm going to be using 18inch motorcycle wheels and based on the available illustrations and using wheel diameter as a standard unit of measurement I end up with a wheelbase of around 6ft 4 inches, a maximum body width of 34 &1/2 inches and a bodyside height of 20 inches. New Zealand has been metric for years, but I was taught feet and inches in primary school and the habit has never left me. I just have to remember to convert measurements before I go and buy materials or else younger folk than me will stare and go, 'Huh?'.

Some more photos. I mocked up a wheel in the right position using the frame of an exercise machine from the dump to support the wheel. I knew that thing was going to be of use eventually.