Going racing on the cheap. $500 racers, based off of motored bicycles.

[nerobro]

Hello all,

I was told you guys might be interested in my latest project.

I like racing. I like racing motorcycles... But places to race motorcycles are few and far between.

So.... How about a spec racer class, for racing in parking lots. But what bikes to use? As far as i can tell there's no good bikes to use for parking lot racing that's not a "fiddy" or a moped. And both look rather comical.

How about that.. with a motor? Well.. that's what's happening.

http://realtinker.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-gp-microgp-or-yougp-racing-for-less.html

http://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1e9owk/racing_on_the_cheap_parking_lot_racing_on_500/

Wish me luck, or ideally, join me!

And.. just so there's some real content, here's the progress for the first night of build work:

 

[16v4nrbrgr]

How about instead of a spec racer class, instead make it a BMX class limited to 66cc so you can use any of the small motors that are fun for BMX. There are a number of people building or who have already built cool motorized BMX and this could be a sort of bicycle superMX.

 

[magrider]

We've been racing in so cal for the last 2 years, where you been? Arizona for 5?
sounds great. what and where is that faring? I need one.

 

[nerobro]

How about instead of a spec racer class, instead make it a BMX class limited to 66cc so you can use any of the small motors that are fun for BMX. There are a number of people building or who have already built cool motorized BMX and this could be a sort of bicycle superMX.

As soon as you get away from spec racer, it becomes at "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go" game. Unlimited racing is.. interesting.. but it also makes participation harder.

Also, keeping power levels down, keeps safety up.

Almost as important, looks matter. If the collection of racers looks like a bunch of people riding dui-mobiles, we won't be accepted. And attracting sponsors will be difficult. People won't support a "well those look like bicycles."

We've been racing in so cal for the last 2 years, where you been? Arizona for 5?
sounds great. what and where is that faring? I need one.

Where have I been? Chicago. And the fairing is happening in the next two weeks.

 

[scotto-]

Look's like scotto- #3



This pic of my 66cc Pro bike as supposed to be top secret until race day


J/K of course!

 

[Wild Bill]

You could use the fairing from a pocket bike.

 

[nerobro]

Pocket bike fairings don't have the 1960-70 GP bike look. And they're usually ABS, which doesn't hold up well to sliding on pavement. They also are designed around much lower seat heights, and don't give good room for sponsor decals, or even paint jobs.

It's an idea.. but not one for "as serious" as I want to take this.

I"m looking to avoid the long list of (valid) complaints in the "is motored bike racing dieing" thread. What's happening there, is what happens when nobody really settles on rules, or consistent machines.

 

[16v4nrbrgr]

The spec class for a motor that doesn't even fit the frame?

I was proposing you let all BMX enthusiasts with past and present and future builds participate, they are quite impressive and IMO much nicer than HT's grafted to a BMX with a gravity bike fairing.

You're gonna need a proof of concept, and if it's craptastic compared to what's already been done, the attraction is already somewhat muffled.

 

[nerobro]

I am sure they are impressive. That is a problem not an advantage.

So how do you stop the guy with an AM6 motor from blitzing the field? How do you make sure that the girl who's biggest accomplishment is gluing cotton-balls on a paper to make santa can build a competitive bike? How about the guy who gets confused building ikea furnature? Or how do you stop the guys who shouldn't be anywhere near a welder, or even a drafting board, building frames that make engineers wince at 50 yards?

Even with restrictor plates, you can't keep them competitive. a 2hp restrictor plate on a 200cc 4 stroke is going to make a very different bike from a 2hp 2 stroke. And at that point you're playing the technology game, instead of getting good, amateur, racing going on.

If this becomes a "lets throw dollars at it to win" game, only a few masochists will want to play. And you'll end up with a once or twice a year event like thunderdrome. (which I am going to... and I'll bring a hotrodded bike there..)

All of the other racing i've seen is like the modified classes in r/c cars. "anything goes" and often times the guy with the most money wins. I'm trying to define a "stock class" or better yet "spec racer" class. If you've done any r/c racing, you'll find that the tighter the rules, the more participants you get.

The goal is to have a standard machine, anyone could build, anyone could buy, and anyone can show up with to an evening, or a weekend race, a couple times a month.

You can't do that if you're blowing up parts, or you need to be on the bleeding edge of technology.

 

[scotto-]

I am sure they are impressive. That is a problem not an advantage.

So how do you stop the guy with an AM6 motor from blitzing the field? How do you make sure that the girl who's biggest accomplishment is gluing cotton-balls on a paper to make santa can build a competitive bike? How about the guy who gets confused building ikea furnature? Or how do you stop the guys who shouldn't be anywhere near a welder, or even a drafting board, building frames that make engineers wince at 50 yards?

Even with restrictor plates, you can't keep them competitive. a 2hp restrictor plate on a 200cc 4 stroke is going to make a very different bike from a 2hp 2 stroke. And at that point you're playing the technology game, instead of getting good, amateur, racing going on.

If this becomes a "lets throw dollars at it to win" game, only a few masochists will want to play. And you'll end up with a once or twice a year event like thunderdrome. (which I am going to... and I'll bring a hotrodded bike there..)

All of the other racing i've seen is like the modified classes in r/c cars. "anything goes" and often times the guy with the most money wins. I'm trying to define a "stock class" or better yet "spec racer" class. If you've done any r/c racing, you'll find that the tighter the rules, the more participants you get.

The goal is to have a standard machine, anyone could build, anyone could buy, and anyone can show up with to an evening, or a weekend race, a couple times a month.

You can't do that if you're blowing up parts, or you need to be on the bleeding edge of technology.

Your concept is somewhat confusing. I myself have built a standard machine that anyone else could build as well using a bone stock (completely unmodified........nothing) beach cruiser bike frame. You put a completely stock 99cc or 212cc predator in it and it can be built nicely for under $700. All you need is the know-how (which you can find on this site and elsewhere) and some decent mechanical skills and you could build a simple racer as I have done that resembles this:



The only major difference is the engine on mine now has over $1,000 dumped into it...........and man what a difference!

Maybe we should all just pedal only to make it fair?

Riders...........remove your engines! Le Mans style start!

 

[bairdco]

i don't think a lopsided bmx bike with a right leg burner that you couldn't pedal looks very fun to race, and i'm not an engineer, but that kinda makes me cringe.

 

[magrider]

I like the spec bike class idea. I believe it would be better racing, more competitive, and funner. The person who has better riding skills has the advantage, not the guy who has more $$$. Rules are used to get all participants on the same page, great idea.

Unfortunately I don’t know if this is the right time for it, you have a picture of fiberglass cloth and resin, how many people have the knowledge or skills to pull that off? There have been many discussions about this very subject. As Scotto said he build a great bike under $1000, it can be done. We have a group of riders racers here on the west coast, 30-75 participants show up at these events and the bikes are all different, maybe that is what attracts us to this hobby. How many riders, racers, builders, are into this hobby in your area?

I like the idea and naturally I would gravitate toward this. Good luck

 

[nerobro]

Your concept is somewhat confusing. I myself have built a standard machine that anyone else could build as well using a bone stock (completely unmodified........nothing) beach cruiser bike frame.*snip*
The only major difference is the engine on mine now has over $1,000 dumped into it...........and man what a difference!

Maybe we should all just pedal only to make it fair?

Riders...........remove your engines! Le Mans style start!

Exactly, you have $1000 in the engine alone. And the minimum build you're talking about is $700. Your bike is something I could easily build. My wife? My sister? My coworker? **** half the people at my hackerspace couldn't manage that.

Heck, to get the motor to work in the beach cruiser frame I built a few years ago need some custom machined parts. I can't ask people to do that.

They absolutely could manage the BMX build. And they'd still have $200 to go racing. AND they also know going in that they have equal hardware to the next guy.

More to the point, your bike doesn't LOOK like a credible race machine. The average joe on the street is not going to look at that and go "oh neat, people are racing motorcycles." They're going to go "What the ****, there's people riding weird machines in that parking lot." That, will, not, do. (your bike in particular is pretty good looking, but I've seen most of the builds on this site...)

I race cyclocross, and track. So racing without engines is not exactly a foreign concept to me. The problem there is the engines are not even.

I like the spec bike class idea. I believe it would be better racing, more competitive, and funner. The person who has better riding skills has the advantage, not the guy who has more $$$. Rules are used to get all participants on the same page, great idea.

Unfortunately I don’t know if this is the right time for it, you have a picture of fiberglass cloth and resin, how many people have the knowledge or skills to pull that off? There have been many discussions about this very subject. As Scotto said he build a great bike under $1000, it can be done. We have a group of riders racers here on the west coast, 30-75 participants show up at these events and the bikes are all different, maybe that is what attracts us to this hobby. How many riders, racers, builders, are into this hobby in your area?

I like the idea and naturally I would gravitate toward this. Good luck

Well that's the idea. More fun, for less money.

I don't expect anyone other than myself to have fiberglass skills. Like most spec racing, someone needs to make the "spec parts" and for now, that's going to be me. That said, I'm not a money grubbing jerk, so they'll be sold at cost. I'll be giving away the first few sets, and think I'll be able to sell fairings for $50 ish.

I have a few people on Reddit who are interested, and four or five friends. Enough to get a demonstration race or two going. Something that will get other people interested, and willing to make the investment.

My real goal, isn't to attract moped, or motored bike people, but instead, motorcycle people. That's a much larger crowd to draw people from. And they have deeper pockets....

I appreciate your support. In a month... maybe.. I'll have a spec published, and you can try it in your town!

 

[magrider]

cool, put me down for one of your fairings

 

[d_gizzle]

+1 on the fairing!

 

[scotto-]

I race cyclocross, and track. So racing without engines is not exactly a foreign concept to me. The problem there is the engines are not even.

Me neither, as seen in my avatar. Wanna race?

 

[Andyinchville1]

HI,

In some forms of spec racing the winning bike (or whatever is being raced at the time) can be bought by other competitors for a certain dollar pre determined dollar amount after the race.

THAT helps keep racers "honest"....After all you wouldn't intentionally spend $1000 in "secret" hop ups if at the end of the race your winning bike could be bought by another competitor for say $500 (or some other dollar amount).

We used to use this method at the track where I used to race remote control cars (only there it was limited to having the option of buying the winning cars motor or battery pack)....It was a spec class race where people were supposed to use spec class motors and spec class batteries (some people were "crafty" and rebuilt battery the spec battery packs using premium cells and re wrapping them in the spec class battery wrappers...being able to buy the winners batteries after the race at the spec pack price practically eliminated this practice and kept things in check (I got some really premium battery packs that way....sadly I also lost some premium cells too HA!....I didn't say it worked 100% of the time! ;-O .....ahhh the good ol days.......

Andrew

 

[d_gizzle]

Here's some spec for ya:

66cc bicycle engine
20" lowrider frame
20" wheels-rims or mags
Maxxis Hookworm tires
Bmx forks
Bmx handlebars
At least 1 front brake
At least 1 rear brake
Curved or straight seatpost
Standard seats-no banana seats or variant

For starters.

Unless you already have spec?

 

[nerobro]

Me neither, as seen in my avatar. Wanna race?

Always. I may lose, but I'll have fun doing so. I'm the fat and slow guy who never DNFs.

HI,

In some forms of spec racing the winning bike (or whatever is being raced at the time) can be bought by other competitors for a certain dollar pre determined dollar amount after the race.

That is in the plan. In "real" racing their is often a challenge fee. It stops frivolous complaints. "You think they're cheating? You can trade motors with them for $40." Or something like that. I haven't spent enough time thinking about how to balance that yet. There is "some" value in break-in time. A bright side is that the engine swap should take less than 10 minutes.

Here's some spec for ya:

66cc bicycle engine
20" lowrider frame
20" wheels-rims or mags
Maxxis Hookworm tires
Bmx forks
Bmx handlebars
At least 1 front brake
At least 1 rear brake
Curved or straight seatpost
Standard seats-no banana seats or variant

For starters.

Unless you already have spec?

My spec is a bit different than that. Be patient.

 

[d_gizzle]

Unless you can put the motor IN the frame this won't work. As Bairdco said,no one wants to ride a leg burner.

And it would be A LOT easier to make fairings for one style frame. Maybe include 24" and 26" lowrider frames for the taller crowd.