Age old Debate

[2stroker]

I am trying to shed some light on an age old debate on the logistics of EPA approved engines, namely 2 stroke engines.
We all know that most any 4 stroke engine is EPA approved, but most 2 stroke engines are not. This has given way to a surge of illegal importation primarily throughout the west coast. These rogue 2 stroke kits are in the US illegally. They have the potential of being confiscated if the EPA/customs catches the importer and gets hold of sales records in order to recover the illegal goods. These illegal kits are usually sold at a cheaper price because the factory does not have to pay for the EPA application/inspection and the more expensive catalytic muffler that is required.

There are basically 3 requirements that need to be met in order to import EPA approved (legal) 2 stroke engines:

1) The factory must have and EPA Certificate of Conformity and have an emission control label (in English) displayed on the engine along with a unique serial number.
2) The engines must include the EPA approved catalytic muffler.
3) The engine kit must be sold for off highway use.

Once these 3 conditions are met any US importer can import from the factory as long as the factory does not have exclusive arrangements with a local Chinese export agency. We do have an exclusive arrangement for the kits we import from our 2 EPA approved factories. Under contract they cannot sell the same version of engine kit that we are already purchasing from them. This means that nobody else in the US has the same kits that we have--not legally anyway. The only exception is that companies in other countries may import the same kit. Then nothing is stopping them from shipping to the US as single order shipments which are not generally subject to EPA approval.

In order to prove that our kits (both 4 and 2 stroke) really are EPA approved I provide you with the following 4 documents in JPEG format. . The first one is the 2 stroke Certificate Of Conformity. The second one is the 4 stroke Certificate Of Conformity. The last 2 are the EPA declaration forms required by customs before they will clear the goods and release them to the purchaser.
[/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

 

[scotto-]

Who cares? Is this really a debate? Who really cares??

Next.......

I am trying to shed some light on an age old debate on the logistics of EPA approved engines, namely 2 stroke engines.
We all know that most any 4 stroke engine is EPA approved, but most 2 stroke engines are not. This has given way to a surge of illegal importation primarily throughout the west coast. These rogue 2 stroke kits are in the US illegally. They have the potential of being confiscated if the EPA/customs catches the importer and gets hold of sales records in order to recover the illegal goods. These illegal kits are usually sold at a cheaper price because the factory does not have to pay for the EPA application/inspection and the more expensive catalytic muffler that is required.

There are basically 3 requirements that need to be met in order to import EPA approved (legal) 2 stroke engines:

1) The factory must have and EPA Certificate of Conformity and have an emission control label (in English) displayed on the engine along with a unique serial number.
2) The engines must include the EPA approved catalytic muffler.
3) The engine kit must be sold for off highway use.

Once these 3 conditions are met any US importer can import from the factory as long as the factory does not have exclusive arrangements with a local Chinese export agency. We do have an exclusive arrangement for the kits we import from our 2 EPA approved factories. Under contract they cannot sell the same version of engine kit that we are already purchasing from them. This means that nobody else in the US has the same kits that we have--not legally anyway. The only exception is that companies in other countries may import the same kit. Then nothing is stopping them from shipping to the US as single order shipments which are not generally subject to EPA approval.

In order to prove that our kits (both 4 and 2 stroke) really are EPA approved I provide you with the following 4 documents in JPEG format. . The first one is the 2 stroke Certificate Of Conformity. The second one is the 4 stroke Certificate Of Conformity. The last 2 are the EPA declaration forms required by customs before they will clear the goods and release them to the purchaser.
[/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

 

[2stroker]

I here about it all the time in the motorized bike world. Some people tell me they are and some say they aren't. So i figured i would throw that out there and see the response. Thanks

 

[scotto-]

I here about it all the time in the motorized bike world. Some people tell me they are and some say they aren't. So i figured i would throw that out there and see the response. Thanks

Again, who REALLY cares? Just for the record......I don't? Just my ever so humble opinion ofc.



why ask why?......just ride!

 

[david jeffries]

I dont know if anyone really knows the laws 100 per cent. It happens all the time, someone said this, somebody else said that. I have heard that engines that have already been sold can not be confiscated, only the illegal property of the importers can be. whether this is true or not, I dont know. I do know that if all stickers are removed from the engine, there is no possible way of telling where it came from or how it got into the country. I always remove the stickers from my engines, and besides that of the two times I was stopped, there was never any mention of environmental regulations. I think the EPA has much better things to do than track down every illegal bicycle engine. Its not like there are so many bicycles with 2 stroke kits in every single city or state that we are creating any real pollution threat. Next to oil refineries and many other types of manufacturing plants, the amount of pollution coming from 2 stroke bicycle engines is probably equal to a squirrel fart. And to reiterate scotto's point, who really cares?

 

[scotto-]

If ya really wanna go silly with debates, just open up the CARB compliance can of worms.........go on, open'er up

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

Well I really don't like stuff being sent into our country that the government doesn't want over here. Cleaning up our environment starts by caring about it. A lot of small fibers wound together makes a strong rope. My 4 stroke Robin Subaru EHO 35 engine is EPA approved. I live in a small town where most of the streets have a posted speed limit of 25 mph. I put a basket on my bike so that I can use it for small transport. Just think if everybody did that instead of using a car how much pollution would be taken out of the environment. Making things better starts by caring.

 

[landuse]

Who cares? Is this really a debate? Who really cares??

Next.......

I would assume people should care if the engines are illegal. If they are, you are taking part in something that is illegal. Most states only allow 49cc engines (if that), and their are adverts on this page that endorse higher cc engines.

Whats up with that?

Just my 2c worth

 

[BarelyAWake]

I would assume people should care if they are illegal. If they are, you are taking part in something that is illegal. Most states only allow 49cc engines (if that), and their are adverts on this page that endorse higher cc engines.

Whats up with that?

Just my 2c worth

There are many differing state laws in the US - it's unrealistic of not impossible to mandate compliance by sponsors to such inconsistency on this international forum.

Selling, purchasing, owning & even using a two stroke isn't illegal anywhere I'm aware of, except marine use in some freshwater lakes & inferred by noise ordinance (leaf blowers)... I believe the OP is referring to the alleged difficulties encountered importing large quantities for domestic resale.

 

[BarelyAWake]

This is a very touchy subject plagued by misunderstandings, misinformation and often bias. Please remember our forum rules apply and to treat other members and their views with respect, even if you disagree.

 

[landuse]

This is a very touchy subject plagued by misunderstandings, misinformation and often bias. Please remember our forum rules apply and to treat other members and their views with respect, even if you disagree.

I have not shown disrespect to anyone. All that I was stating was that if it is illegal, wherever you may live, to use a certain cc engine on the road as a means of travel, then you shouldn't do it because it is illegal.

 

[BarelyAWake]

I made that a separate post, to serve as a general reminder is all

 

[landuse]

I made that a separate post, to serve as a general reminder is all

No problem.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

Yes there's many EPA regulated 2 strokes available. I've researched the laws of many states and they differ greatly. That's why I tell people to lookup and read their local laws.

Yes we're all entitled to our opinions. What I'd like to see is more motorized bikes on the road and less use of 4 wheel vehicles. Just think how much that would clean up the environment. Not to mention the number of accidents it would reduce because of the lower speeds. It's really sad to see people doing 40+ mph on a posted 25 mph street.

 

[biknut]

I prefer my 2 stroke MB motors to be illegal. The illegal ones run better than the legal ones.

 

[Al.Fisherman]

I say screw the EPA, they are killing this country They hold too much power with little or no oversight. Want proof ???? here is 1 example .
VW Passat made in Europe US78.5 MPG (Imperial gallon) 65.2 MPG US gallon in the Uk

VW made in the US.... 43MPG/highway...31MPG/city...and very few posted MPG in the us are actually correct, most are inflated.

I find it ironic that what is by law illegal, some of them look the other way, and the SAME people want the EPA rules enforced. ie...California, 19 BILLION dollars in debt.
EPA needs to be defunded.

 

[2door]

I say screw the EPA, they are killing this country.
EPA needs to be defunded.

And OSHA too.

 

[Al.Fisherman]

And OSHA too.

OSHA does have SOME good regulations, just that they have gone too far.... but them too.

 

[scotto-]

And OSHA too.

And DOT also? J/K folks.....that is how I am (immature to say the least)

See if you can make any sense of this, and it pertains to the oh mighty CARB compliency BS. Harbor Freight will not sell a 99cc 4-stroke Predator engine in California due to fact that it is NOT CARB compliant. But they do sell the exact same non-CARB compliant engine attached to a 1-1/2" output water pump????

I know of what I speak here so tell me about EPA and California Air Rescourses Board and how it's not just a bunch of BS and why should we care how they rip us off anyhow???

Ask me how CARB compliant my 212cc 4-stroke Predator is now that it's mounted on my race bike???

Yeah I care alright, not about a silly sensetive debate such as I've already stated here. And absolutely no offense to anyone one here, not the OP, the Mods or anyoneone else reading this.......I just don't care?!

Look at the big picture.....don't sweat the small stuff. The EPA sure doesn't care.

 

[biknut]

Look at the big picture.....don't sweat the small stuff. The EPA sure doesn't care.

Yeah, don't sweat the petty, and pet the sweaty.