The Real Deal on California Law.

[fatdaddy]

Gee 'bro', maybe that's just because you haven't been around that long. I'm not into 'albums', don't look at them myself but heck the archives of the sites mentioned, if you're so inclined. There are other places around the web too if you know where to look. And I have a blog that goes back to 2008 where I've laid out all my thoughts on things MAB. I don't list the url here but just shoot me a PM and ask if you like and I'll send it to ya, though you probably wouldn't be much interested in the content. But hey, it's like my ol' grandma used to say, when you assume you risk putting the U between the a s s and m e. And thanks for your concern!

Yer right happy, I ain't been around that long, But I try never to assume anything. I've made enough of an a$$ of myself in my younger days, still do it some, but now try to learn from it. I too have been building and riding Motorized since about 2006, Just had no idea there were forums about it untill about 8 months ago. I've learned more about M.B's in the last 8 months than I did the previous 6 years or so.
But I guess I did assume you had a bike or two, (Why else would you be on a M.B. forum?) I'm always curious to see the other guy's bikes. I get a LOT of new building ideas from just looking. A picture is worth a zillion words.
If the url is about all things motorized I would be interested and go ahead and PM me. If not, I'll leave it up to you. If I might learn something new I'm all for it. M.B.'s are not the ONLY thing I'm in to.
fatdaddy.

 

[showcaller]

LAboy, I am in North Hollywood and I got my M1 this summer. It is a two part process just like getting a license to drive a car. The first part is the written exam, which is two parts within itself. One part is general driving stuff and second part is specific to motorcycles. When you pass, you can drive a motorcycle until you think you are ready to take the road test. Once you take the road test at the DMV and pass, then you can ride pretty much anything motorized on two or three wheels however, and it's a big however... If you go the DMV route, unless you take your driving test on a motorcyle over 600 CC, you will be limited to a 600 CC bike. Also, you cannot take your road test on a motorized bike. The DMV will tell you to come back with a motorcycle and then as you are leaving they will probably be laughing so hard you should be able to hear them a couple of blocks away. The above is one way to go. The other way to go is the route I took - at the suggestion/insistence of my brother - a serious touring motorcyclist with a BMW to prove it. I did the CHP sanctioned course taught by a private company. It is an entire weekend, actually a little more than that. You spend the weekend (classes are limited to ten people/two instructors) riding and learning to think like a motorcyclist. Even though you are only riding 175 CC Kawasaki's, when you are done with the course, you are licensed to drive anything including the biggest bike you can find at your local Kawasaki, BMW, Yamaha etc. dealer. The cost is $250.00 and besides everything you learn, its' worth it just so you don't have to deal with anyone at the DMV. Good Luck!

 

[cory151]

LAboy, I am in North Hollywood and I got my M1 this summer. It is a two part process just like getting a license to drive a car. The first part is the written exam, which is two parts within itself. One part is general driving stuff and second part is specific to motorcycles. When you pass, you can drive a motorcycle until you think you are ready to take the road test. Once you take the road test at the DMV and pass, then you can ride pretty much anything motorized on two or three wheels however, and it's a big however... If you go the DMV route, unless you take your driving test on a motorcyle over 600 CC, you will be limited to a 600 CC bike. Also, you cannot take your road test on a motorized bike. The DMV will tell you to come back with a motorcycle and then as you are leaving they will probably be laughing so hard you should be able to hear them a couple of blocks away. The above is one way to go. The other way to go is the route I took - at the suggestion/insistence of my brother - a serious touring motorcyclist with a BMW to prove it. I did the CHP sanctioned course taught by a private company. It is an entire weekend, actually a little more than that. You spend the weekend (classes are limited to ten people/two instructors) riding and learning to think like a motorcyclist. Even though you are only riding 175 CC Kawasaki's, when you are done with the course, you are licensed to drive anything including the biggest bike you can find at your local Kawasaki, BMW, Yamaha etc. dealer. The cost is $250.00 and besides everything you learn, its' worth it just so you don't have to deal with anyone at the DMV. Good Luck!

Do all that, or if your military service connected take there CHP class for free they even provide sport bikes and cruising for you to ride free of charge. Then at the end they hand you a serialized and signed DMV waiver. You show to the DMV they take the waiver and your M1 shows up in the mail the next week. Just multiple routs to achieve the same outcome.
This course then authorizes you to ride a motorcycle on any military installation in CONUS. Even if you have an M1 but did not take this course, you are not allowed on any base with a motorcycle.

 

[ravi]

cool,igot a4 dui on my bicycle

 

[tcb250]

Hey, I'm looking for help with registering at DMV. If the bike goes over 30MPH, has a 6.5HP motor and is all gas, no pedal power... can it be registered as a motorized bicycle? If not how can I make this bike street legal? EDIT: I'm in California with a C.A.R.B. approved 212cc engine.

 

[bairdco]

simple answer. no.

how? put working pedals on it, lie on the form, and hope you don't get pulled over.

 

[gera229]

Is this what you have?
Predator 212 cc OHV Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine - Certified for California

I wonder how you would fit a motor this big in a bicycle without sacrificing the way it looks lol.

 

[davechitown]

simple answer. no.

how? put working pedals on it, lie on the form, and hope you don't get pulled over.

That is all u nees to do its easy, and pedals are nice to have should u ever run out of gas or want to ride on sidewalk, they even help with off the line torque and its great id ur engine ever fails u

 

[rustycase]

Sounds like you have built a motorcycle... I'd suppose you will need speedo, front and rear lites, brake light, turn signals, muffler, DOT tires, maybe disk brakes, fuel vapor return line to tank, pcv, Gosh!

It would be nice if you documented all the hoops and wrote up a nice report for all of us to review, when you get it all accomplished!

At least Kalifornia has a provision for 'New Construction' !

Tuff state to try a new business startup in. Lotta rules and regs to follow.
...and I guess when you fabricate a new machine, they would certainly look at you as a 'builder'. there's probly a tax on that.

I think I'll do my best to stay below the radar.

Good luck to you
rc

 

[fatdaddy]

Hey tcb250,
Even if it's CARB approved for California, that only means for lawnmowers and rototillers, NOT Motorized Bicycles. For a MB you're not allowed over 2 gross brake horsepower. With your engine there is NO WAY to make it legal in Califirnia.
That being said, I use the 80cc (about 3hp) on all of my bikes. Most cops don't know the difference yet. You can try to slide it by DMV, but DO NOT take it to your local DMV office to register it, Do it through the mail. You will also have to put pedals on it. The cops know about that one. Download DMV form 230, Print it out, Lie your arse off about the HP and top speed, and send them $19.00 with the form. You'll get your registration in the mail.
If a cop catches on to you I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps put a 49cc sticker on the engine to try to fool them.
:WARNING: ALL OF THIS IS ILLEGAL. Proceed at your own risk.
I'm only going approx. 1hp over with my 80cc engines, you are going 4 1/2hp over the limit.
The bigger problem with doing it your way is that if the cops figure it out then it makes all MB'rs look bad. You can reach 30mph with a 2 stroke or 4 stroke regular bicycle engine if geared right. Thats fast enough for a BICYCLE. If you want to go faster, BUY A MOTORCYCLE. Right now California law is not too bad for motorized bikes. If they keep catching dudes on illegal bikes then that could all change.
I've explained how to do it "wrong" and how to do it "right". The choice is yours.
GOOD LUCK,
fatdaddy.
P.S. They don't ask about lights, signals, ect, on the form. The cops will mention it though.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Hey, I'm looking for help with registering at DMV. If the bike goes over 30MPH, has a 6.5HP motor and is all gas, no pedal power... can it be registered as a motorized bicycle? If not how can I make this bike street legal? EDIT: I'm in California with a C.A.R.B. approved 212cc engine.

Would be cool to see a pic of your bike.
Any chance of putting pedals on it?

Where a bouts in CA are you?
There are 6 or more guys racing that HF motor on the track in SoCal.

 

[happyvalley]

Hey tcb250,
Even if it's CARB approved for California, that only means for lawnmowers and rototillers, NOT Motorized Bicycles. For a MB you're not allowed over 2 gross brake horsepower. With your engine there is NO WAY to make it legal in Califirnia.
That being said, I use the 80cc (about 3hp) on all of my bikes. Most cops don't know the difference yet. You can try to slide it by DMV, but DO NOT take it to your local DMV office to register it, Do it through the mail. You will also have to put pedals on it. The cops know about that one. Download DMV form 230, Print it out, Lie your arse off about the HP and top speed, and send them $19.00 with the form. You'll get your registration in the mail.
If a cop catches on to you I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps put a 49cc sticker on the engine to try to fool them.
:WARNING: ALL OF THIS IS ILLEGAL. Proceed at your own risk.
I'm only going approx. 1hp over with my 80cc engines, you are going 4 1/2hp over the limit.
The bigger problem with doing it your way is that if the cops figure it out then it makes all MB'rs look bad. You can reach 30mph with a 2 stroke or 4 stroke regular bicycle engine if geared right. Thats fast enough for a BICYCLE. If you want to go faster, BUY A MOTORCYCLE. Right now California law is not too bad for motorized bikes. If they keep catching dudes on illegal bikes then that could all change.
I've explained how to do it "wrong" and how to do it "right". The choice is yours.
GOOD LUCK,
fatdaddy.
P.S. They don't ask about lights, signals, ect, on the form. The cops will mention it though.

I applaud your diplomacy, IMO you've managed to skillfully say something that needs to be stated but mostly goes ignored or scoffed at and do so without inciting or being rancorous. I'm surprised sometimes with the ease that information gets disseminated online repeatedly promoting illegal motored bikes or things like suggesting the replacing of data plates. If it were any other class of vehicle, car, motorcycle, even most flippant, anonymous online users would think twice about posting stuff like that. Unfortunately, in the end I don't think it'll matter much, the way things are going my guess is within 5 years the DIY MAB will be regulated out of existence for street use.

 

[bairdco]

happy, i doubt that they'll be banned anytime soon. all the laws on the books date back 20 or 30 years, as people have been motorizing bikes for as long as the DMV has been in existence.

i think enforcement will be stepped up since we're getting so popular and noticeable, but i don't see an outright banishment in the near future.

people have been illegally registering all types of vehicles for a long, long time, and it'll continue. all the law has done is made it harder to do so.

i think someone with a blatantly illegal bike won't affect the rest of us, same as the guys with hot rod race cars on the street don't affect your ability to drive a car.

 

[happyvalley]

happy, i doubt that they'll be banned anytime soon. all the laws on the books date back 20 or 30 years, as people have been motorizing bikes for as long as the DMV has been in existence.

i think enforcement will be stepped up since we're getting so popular and noticeable, but i don't see an outright banishment in the near future.

people have been illegally registering all types of vehicles for a long, long time, and it'll continue. all the law has done is made it harder to do so.

i think someone with a blatantly illegal bike won't affect the rest of us, same as the guys with hot rod race cars on the street don't affect your ability to drive a car.

Fair points baird, and in a similar context of fairness, I referred to

the DIY MAB will be regulated out of existence for street use.

not an outright ban. I see similarities with what I witnessed during the moped boom in the 1970's during the oil price shocks when pump prices soared. At first mopeds were completely unregulated, no LIRI, (license, reg, ins, inspect), thousands were sold. That soon changed, they became popular enough and were written into he regs. Besides fuel economy, as soon as all those "convenient" ancillary LIRI reasons disappeared, they started to become much scarcer on the road, and this considering if one wanted to legally register a moped, they came with an MCO/MSO and met most DOT equipment compliance and CPSC regs.

 

[davechitown]

Chicagos unregulated under 50cc / 35 mph it rocks morini s6c on fuji mb

 

[fatdaddy]

Fair points baird, and in a similar context of fairness, I referred to not an outright ban. I see similarities with what I witnessed during the moped boom in the 1970's during the oil price shocks when pump prices soared. At first mopeds were completely unregulated, no LIRI, (license, reg, ins, inspect), thousands were sold. That soon changed, they became popular enough and were written into he regs. Besides fuel economy, as soon as all those "convenient" ancillary LIRI reasons disappeared, they started to become much scarcer on the road, and this considering if one wanted to legally register a moped, they came with an MCO/MSO and met most DOT equipment compliance and CPSC regs.

And thats exactly what's gonna happen to MB's happy. One day some California state senator is going to work in his limo and has a motorized pass him at 60mph, Well, next thing ya know the guy is off on a tangent about those darn motorized bicycles and how they must be banned or regulated out of existence. CARB is already giving California a hard enough time about 2 strokes, So now, why don't we just torque all the lawmakers off with 40hp, 60mph motorbikes with no pedals. And if you live in California, you know, Those guy's want to be first in everything. First to approve gay marriage, First to jump on the air quality bandwagon,(CARB) and first to ban motorized bikes???
C'mon guy's, Don't give those idiots in Sacramento a reason to even notice motorized bicycles. The speed limit is 30, try to keep it under 35mph. The HP limit is 2GBH, Try to keep it under 4hp anyway. And at least make it LOOK like it has pedals.( and PLEASE, wear a F'n helmet.) We all know what happens once Sacramento sinks it's teeth into something, THEY NEVER LET GO. Like I said, If ya wanna do 60mph, BUY A MOTORCYCLE. Don't make it hard for me to enjoy my favorite hobby.
Rubber Side Down,
fatdaddy.

 

[BigBlue]

I've been sitting on the sideline of this debate and want to add my input. I have to agree with Fatdaddy - if you want speed and horsepower, buy a motorcycle. I have a China 200cc enduro that weighs 225 lbs and reaches top speed of 65 mph, going downhill and it is no fun riding on the freeway at 55 mph. How much does your bicycle weigh?

Also be aware that a MB in California is only allowed to be capable of going 30 mph. It doesn't matter if it is under 2 horsepower, it can't be capable of going over 30 mph. I am sure that is why mopeds are slow as **** from the factory.

DMV Handbook Section 21.130:

Motorized bicycles (mopeds) as defined in CVC §406 must be licensed before being operated or moved upon a highway.

A moped license plate and identification card (ID) are issued which are not subject to annual registration.
A title is not issued.
A moped capable of attaining speeds in excess of 30 m.p.h. is subject to registration as a motor-driven cycle (motorcycle).
A registration application and the required fees must be submitted if a moped operator is cited for speeds in excess of 30 m.p.h.
Fees become due upon first operation after modification of the moped to increase its speed to more than 30 m.p.h.

If you are sited going over 30 mph, you must register as a motorcycle. Hopefully officer Joe Friday doesn't have a thing for you and isn't up on the law. You registered your bike serial number when you got your plate - remember. So don't try a switching bikes. I know of many biker friends who've got caught switching plates and paid plenty.

And also be aware of CVC section 23135:

23135. It is unlawful for any person to operate upon a highway any vehicle which was originally manufactured as a motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406, and which has been modified in such a manner that it no longer conforms to the definition of a motorized bicycle.

The consequences is in CVC Section 42001.9 :

42001.9. Every person convicted of an infraction for a violation of Section 23135 shall be punished by a fine of fifty dollars ($50).

We all know that a $50.00 fine in California is closer to $200.00 to $300.00 or more, depending on the county you live in. If you got the cash to burn, be my guest.

I am not going to touch the subject of tampering and complying with emission control devices, relating to MB and CVC.

I am not trying to scare anybody, but informing them of the possible consequences of their actions.

As Fatdaddy said, keep it under 30 mph, wear a F'n helmet, have pedals and at least keep the hp reasonable and everyone can enjoy.

Chris
AKA: BigBlue

 

[fatdaddy]

Thanks for the backup BigBlue. If everyone that rode MB's would just keep it reasonable then we would have NO PROBLEMS AT ALL. But then, If everyone was reasonable we probably wouldn't need any LAWS at all. Laws don't get passed untill someone does something stupid. There was no law against murder untill Cain whacked Able. Laws are passed for the idiots in this world and then we ALL have more rules to abide by.
Anyway, Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Rubber Side Down,
fatdaddy. (AKA Big Red.)

 

[davechitown]

Sounds like having a mb in california sucks, I would just registar as a motorcycle, in chicago its sweet due to the low numbers of them around and the fact we have no gay helmet laws, if its under 50cc its just a bike , and electric bikes also need no plates, if it has pedals under 50cc ur good, some people try using pedalless bikes and then its a motorcycle to the law, a 250cc motor on a moped with pedals is the kind of **** that gets the heat on us motor bikers, the ones without pedals only get themselves hassled, I hope it stays open and free in the chi, sucks to deal with all that bs, my mb has s6c morini and does 50 I have no problem here but in cali it would need plates , sucks for cali riders and big goofy pedalless bikes is probly why, why not just get a motorcycle if its going to be 250ccs? It seems pointless

 

[culvercityclassic]

Nice rant Dave...