wiring headlight setup...please help

[blckwlfny1]

i have poured over posts as to how to wire my particular headlight setup and i have reached one unavoidable conclusion: I HAVE NO CLUE about electrical circuits other than positive is "hot", negative is not and there's a switch 2 lights and a battery somewhere in between...
...( i love that smiley BTW)
That being said, i would really appreciate a little help if possible
here's what i have:
1) a lantern (big Beam) sealed beam light...selected for its EXACT similarity to the headlight on the TS 100 bike im trying to reproduce...6v, 3watt
2) the grubee skyhawk 2-cycle motor
3) tail light not selected...subject to system requirements
4) a desire to keep this as simple as possible and meddle with the engine minimally

i was considering a "wonderful creations" 6v generator and a direct hookup to the lights. can it be that simple?
Does the physical load that the generator puts on the motor affect the performance?
any and all suggestions would be appreciated
thanks

 

[GearNut]

3 watts is the maximum output that the white wire alternator is rated to put out.
In reality most struggle to put out 2 watts. A very common problem with trying to power lights off of the white wire is it will kill the signal going to the CDI box and you will have no spark. Some folks get lucky and can start the engine then after it is running they can turn on the light switch and the engine will still run. Sometimes this will only work at higher engine speeds though. The engine will die at idle speeds.

To properly charge a battery you will need a rectifier/ regulator between the alternator and battery. This is due to the fact that batteries produce and charge with DC or Direct Current. Alternators produce AC or Alternating Current. The two do not play well with each other at all.
The very least you can get away with using is using a single diode rated at 6 volts 3 watts. This will give you a pulsed DC current. Still you will have no regulator to regulate the voltage to no higher than 6 volts.
Radio Shack does still sell the diodes. They even sell voltage regulators on a little IC chip, but if you are not familiar with simple electronic circuitry this may get frustrating very quickly for you.

Edit: The Wonderful Creations alternator has received a bad review on every one I have read.
It is a good idea that unfortunately does not work as is desired or advertised to.
The one benefit it does have is it will not kill the spark when used at maximum output, which tends to be less than the white wire output that your engine all ready has.

Norman has a thread on rewinding a mag for more power. There you can learn alot about them.
http://motorbicycling.com/f39/winding-coil-new-wire-14619.html

 

[Dave31]

Here is some photos of a bike from DR and he is running a 6v lantern for head light and tail light all powered by the white wire.

 

[city of angels]

if you want to go a different route i install a fog light set from walmart and a motorcycle battery 7 aph and thats bright enough for me if you go to the search bar and type upgrades you could see apicture of my trike with lighting system install

 

[r00t4rd3d]

Part #1 - Battery

Super Mini Moto Pocket Bike 12 Volt Battery Parts 49cc: eBay Motors (item 170269544430 end time Sep-26-10 02:01:22 PDT)

Part#2 - Regulator/Rectifier

12V GY6 Moped ATV Dirt Bike Voltage Regulator Rectifier: eBay Motors (item 140425533358 end time Sep-07-10 08:09:26 PDT)

Optional part #3 but it has the wiring directions - Reg/Rec Pigtail

6V OR 12V REG/REC PIGTAIL JIALING ZONGSHEN CLONE ENGINE: eBay Motors (item 350192184985 end time Sep-10-10 23:22:43 PDT)

Im 99% sure this setup would power a suitable 12v light and keep the battery charged. I would run the light threw a On/Off switch only using it at night to allow the battery to be good and charged when needed.

I am gonna try this setup soon and see how it works.

:O

 

[TheE]

How does that setup convert the white wire's output to 12V?

 

[r00t4rd3d]

It doesn't. The 6v white wire will trickle charge the 12v battery. You run your lights off the battery.

 

[blckwlfny1]

Part #1 - Battery

Super Mini Moto Pocket Bike 12 Volt Battery Parts 49cc: eBay Motors (item 170269544430 end time Sep-26-10 02:01:22 PDT)

Part#2 - Regulator/Rectifier

12V GY6 Moped ATV Dirt Bike Voltage Regulator Rectifier: eBay Motors (item 140425533358 end time Sep-07-10 08:09:26 PDT)

Optional part #3 but it has the wiring directions - Reg/Rec Pigtail

6V OR 12V REG/REC PIGTAIL JIALING ZONGSHEN CLONE ENGINE: eBay Motors (item 350192184985 end time Sep-10-10 23:22:43 PDT)

Im 99% sure this setup would power a suitable 12v light and keep the battery charged. I would run the light threw a On/Off switch only using it at night to allow the battery to be good and charged when needed.

I am gonna try this setup soon and see how it works.

:O

this looks GREAT! But i am using a 6v light. which rectifier would work?

 

[r00t4rd3d]

I dont know if you should run a 6v light off a 12v battery. Might be too much power and pop bulbs or burst into flames.

I am just guessing here but you could probably use a 6v battery and a 6v reg/rec. Why you would want to when you have 6v for free coming from your engine ? The only plus I see to doing this would be full light power no matter the rpms and being able to turn the lights on when the bike isnt running ?

6v battery
PS-640F Power Sonic Replacement SLA Battery (6.00 Volts 4.50 AmpH) - High quality and lowest price guaranteed

6v reg/rec
6V REGULATOR RECTIFIER LIFAN 50CC 70CC 90CC 110CC 125CC: eBay Motors (item 120408499281 end time Sep-10-10 22:06:39 PDT)


Also note Ive never tried this mod with a motorized bicycle , 6v or 12v , only dirt bikes. Im gonna order all the 12v stuff and try it. I'm fairly confident that it will work fine. I think sticking to a 30-50watt bulb wont drain the battery faster then the engine can charge it.

 

[TheE]

It doesn't. The 6v white wire will trickle charge the 12v battery. You run your lights off the battery.

Wait, I'm confused...you need to have an output higher than the battery's terminal voltage in order to charge it. Do high RPMs cause the white wire to output over 12V or something? I've never gotten a chance to measure it...

 

[GearNut]

Wait, I'm confused...you need to have an output higher than the battery's terminal voltage in order to charge it. Do high RPMs cause the white wire to output over 12V or something? I've never gotten a chance to measure it...

You are not confused. 6 volts will not charge a 12 volt battery.
Most chargers as well as most automotive and motorcycle 12 volt electrical systems actually operate around 13.5 volts.

Voltage is the potential of power in a circuit.
Trying to charge a battery by introducing only half of the battery's potential is a no win situation.

 

[r00t4rd3d]

You are not confused. 6 volts will not charge a 12 volt battery.

Put a volt meter on the white wire and crank up the rpms.

Does it go higher then 6volts ?

I bet it does.

 

[Dave F]

I am not getting any voltage out of my white wire, I changed my magneto still no voltage, the bike runs good just no voltage. Anyone have any suggestions.

Dave F

 

[r00t4rd3d]

How are you testing ? Are you grounded ? If your using a tester put the red wire from the tester to the white wire and the black wire from the tester to the black wire from the engine.

If your just touching the black wire from the tester to the painted frame you might not get a good ground that way.

....

 

[GearNut]

Put a volt meter on the white wire and crank up the rpms.

Does it go higher then 6volts ?

I bet it does.

Unloaded I bet it does too! Couldn't agree with you more.
Hook up a 2 watt bulb to it, rev the engine and I bet it won't. This is speculation on my part, but it is educated speculation based on electrical theory of operation.

 

[Dave F]

What would cause me to not have any voltage coming from my white wire while the bike is running. I have blue to blue and yellow(kill switch) to blue, black to black. engine runs great, just cant seem to get any voltage out of my white wire. Can anyone help me out..

thanks, Dave F

 

[GearNut]

It could be you have a bad mag. The coil of wire that powers the CDI box and the coil of wire that powers the white wire are separate windings on the mag frame, one wrapped on top of the other.

Edit: Are you using a test light to check for voltage or a volt meter? The output from the white wire is AC. If you are using a meter and checking for voltage using the DC setting, you will get a false reading.

 

[r00t4rd3d]

Unloaded I bet it does too! Couldn't agree with you more.
Hook up a 2 watt bulb to it, rev the engine and I bet it won't. This is speculation on my part, but it is educated speculation based on electrical theory of operation.

Thats the kicker. You dont hook any lights up to the white wire and when your screaming down the road at high rpms the battery will charge.

You can run a 10-15 watt bulb off a 12v battery for probably 5 hours with out any kinda of charging system. Trickle it with 6-10+ volts and it will maintain a charge. Then you put your lights on a switch and only use them at night when you need it and that battery will be full of juice.

Tomorrow when I get paid Iam gonna order all the stuff.

Ill bet you an inner tube it works

 

[Scotchmo]

Thats the kicker. You dont hook any lights up to the white wire and when your screaming down the road at high rpms the battery will charge.

You can run a 10-15 watt bulb off a 12v battery for probably 5 hours with out any kinda of charging system. Trickle it with 6-10+ volts and it will maintain a charge. Then you put your lights on a switch and only use them at night when you need it and that battery will be full of juice.

Tomorrow when I get paid Iam gonna order all the stuff.

Ill bet you an inner tube it works

You cannot trickle charge a 12v battery from a 10v source. The white wire can trickle charge a 6v battery, barely.

People are making it way too complicated. If you can live with a 6v system, this is what you can do. Set up a 6v lighting system that uses a rechargeable battery. Lead acid, Lithium, NiCad, NiMh, all will work. Once you get the lights working, you can implement the white wire as a trickle charger. It costs under a buck for the diode. Hook the striped end of a diode to the battery (+) and hook the other end of the diode to the white wire. You do not need a regulator. The 6v battery acts as a regulator.

Gearnut wins an inner tube!

 

[Bryan Smith]

If you are only using one diode you are only using half of the AC wave. You could be getting twice the charge (time, not voltage) with a full wave bridge rectifier sold from places like radio shack for under $3 US. The pos. & neg. leads of the rectifier go to the battery, the other two leads go to the white wire and blue wire.