winding a coil with new wire

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Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
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Got the new wire today #28 and #36 gage so I jumped on the winder.
Makes a big difference with good new wire didn't break it once. I was sweating
that #36 gage I've broke more of that than I care to think about.
While waiting on the wire I tried some splicing I didn't like the small ball
the wire made by welding it together with a bic lighter so I practiced
soldering it got it to look real good so thats the way I'll do it from now on
made a little jig to hold the wire in whats the reason I was having trouble
trying to solder it.
Got a couple of photos of the winding of the coil
all done with the winding 3601 turns of 36 gage wire went on there.

this the ohms reading on the fine(blue wire) you can't see the coil very well
in the next 2 photos but it covered with masking tape and the wires are soldered on.
If this coil works good I'll wrap it with a string covering and may coat the string
with epoxy.

reading on the 28 gage wire (white wire) there was 5 rows with 389 turns total. I insulated each winding row from the next layer. I put on too much 28 gage the ohms should read around 2.0 to 2.20 ohms and no more. Sooo I had to unwind the whole thing and get the heavy wire reading down to 2.0 ohms. the engine will run on it like it is but the lights won't work right. they are very dim

one more shot of the coil I tested it then unwound it to fix too many turns of 28 gage wire. Using the new wire made this so much more easier.
 
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K.i.p

K.i.p

New Member
Nov 8, 2009
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CNY
Nice work. Just curious how the foot peddle variable speed custom winder worked out for you. ?
 
Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
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pampa texas
The winder worked good. Still a little fast even with the wood block on the
foot throttle to limit the speed. I have a light dimmer I might plug the machine
into it and see how that will work for controlling the speed.
One thing I liked was not breaking any wire. The coil turned out looking
very nice I just hope it works as good as it looks.
Norman
update on using a rotary light dimmer
I added the dimmer it helps a bunch I can slow it to where it just moves and easily
dial it up to warp speed.
 
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Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
7
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pampa texas
the coil was not so good, runs the engine fine lights not so good. Turning on the lights kills the engine at idle. I removed the fine wire completely. I reduced the 28 gage wire length to 2.0 ohms from the 4.0 ohm rewound the fine wire back on. lights and engine now work light is a little dim. I'll add some more fine wire,try to get it to 350 /360 ohms.
I think the magic numbers for the 28 gage is 2.1 ohms and 360 ohms on the 36 gage
I'll get it right sooner or later.
 
GearNut

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
5,104
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San Diego, Kaliforgnia
Trial and error. I hold Nikola Tesla in high regard. That was playing with windings!
You have got it down to a fine science, Norman! I thank you for your efforts, I am eager to learn your results as I most likely will follow your lead on this one. Would you reckon that BBQ rotisserie motor would make a good winder, or too slow?
 
Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
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pampa texas
might be a little slow you could make a hand winder like I have in the other post
made out of pvc pipe and a bolt with a copper water pipe soldered on for the handle
red neck and cheap the hardest thing is to make a coil mount to attach the coil to the winder
I've used 5 min jb weld to mount it a couple of times it can break off in the middle of the winding
process making for a lot of cussing and whining.
good luck on trying this.
all of the coils would run the engine what I'm really trying to find out is what amount of each size
wire will make the lights on a bike work the best.
To allow the engine to idle with the lights on and bright enough to see good at dark.
I've had only 2 mag coils that came with the engines where the coils are just too weak
to let the engine idle with the lights on. Matter of fact the last 2 engine kit I bought were the weak
ones had not had a problem with them working good until those two.
So I decided if I'm making lights I'd better find a solution to someone buying a light and
them having a weak coil and their light not working.
I'm not trying to make a system to charge a battery as that is one more thing that is a pain to mess with on a motorized bicycle.
I might be able to work out a way where I'll just need to modify the mag coil and not strip it completely and rewind all the wire. but with the bare coils I have I can try different combination's
so I'll know better what will and will not work.
I now know of about 101 ways it won't work. LOL!!
Norman
 
Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
7
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pampa texas
A little bit more I found out today. Over 500 ohms on the blue wire and with 2.2 ohms on the white wire
is not good for lights didn't burn it out,just makes the light very dim?
So it looks like for now 2.0 to 2.10 is good for the white wire maybe 1.9 to 2.2 is good.
Now to find the best for the 36 gage usually less than 310 ohms the engine won't idle reliably more than 500 ohms the light goes real dim, the engine will idle as slow as you want it to.

Another thing with the coil cold you get a lower reading as the coil heats( running it on the bike) up the ohms reading goes up.
And one more with the same amount of wire the ohms reading will change( resistance goes up) with the 36 gage just from winding it on, off, and back on?
 
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Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
7
38
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pampa texas
going to try a different size wire for the white wire coil going to go to 26 gage and see what
that will do? I'll still try to get the 2.0 to 2.2 ohms reading on it.
 
Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
7
38
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pampa texas
yes to the bridge and no to the capacitor. I'm not to sure the bridge rectifier isn't fried. Need
to see if I can get a good one.
Do you have a part number for the storage capacitor?
 
Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
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38
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pampa texas
I seem to remember they were a big blue thing? About the size of a can of beer.
Hope since then the capacitors have been make smaller?
Might be what one of the guys was talking about in the throw away cameras to use the
capacitor out of the flash part. Now I'll need to find a throw away camera to take parts out of.
 
Elmo

Elmo

New Member
Sep 3, 2009
748
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Mississippi
Norman said:
going to try a different size wire for the white wire coil going to go to 26 gage and see what
that will do? I'll still try to get the 2.0 to 2.2 ohms reading on it.
Click to expand...
American Wire Gauge, AWG Cable Size Description for Copper Wire Cable According to this table 26 gauge is 41.62 ohms per 1000 feet works out to 21.02691 feet per ohm. That is 48.05382 feet for 2 ohms and 52.8592 feet for 2.2 ohms. The guys making coils at the motor winding shop used a wheel measuring device to get their coils right. The wire would feed through a roller that measured the wire as it was wound on the form. Not sure if this is any help.
 
T

TheMotheMan

Member
Jun 14, 2009
43
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Southern Minnesota
I don't know if this would be the same thing but as for a storage capacitor if you go to a junk yard they may have old cop cars with the flashing module. the capacitors in these flashers are HUGE. I found a couple at an auction they were in the Farads and a high voltage rating. This may be viable but norman is right they are the size of a beer can.
 
GearNut

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
5,104
11
38
San Diego, Kaliforgnia
I am happy to hear that you have figured out the magic wire wrapping combination!
Are any of your aforementioned combinations the ones that did the trick?
After your statement, I figured that your evaluation of 42' of 26 gauge is a keeper in the formula.
*Up Date on wire********
47' of 26 gauge wire is working the best. 3-9-10 by Norman
 
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GearNut

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
5,104
11
38
San Diego, Kaliforgnia
Your perserverance is astounding and greatly appreciated!
Sooo.....the saga continues!
I played around with small slot car motors when I was a kid, and made small transformers in highschool electronics class. I do have an idea as to what you are going through.
 
Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
7
38
72
pampa texas
I took apart a new magneto coil, that when I bought it, the add says it will make your lights work,
it didn't. I found it had 38'-6" of 28 gauge wire! 2.40 ohms. the wire had 2 full rolls of winding under the
top layer the top row went across 23mm the coil is 30mm wide where the windings go.
the fine wire read 322.5 ohms I just cut it off didn't try to unwind it.
 
Norman

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
2,606
7
38
72
pampa texas
I rewound the coil today that I took apart last night.
put on 26 gauge wire to replace the 28 gauge wire.
When all done the white wire read 2.27 ohms. 52'-6" of wire
blue wire read 382.2 ohms 3900 turns of 36 gauge
I works just fine now lights work good and it will idle nice and slow
with the lights on. No more of the engine dying at idle
with the lights on.
update on this the engine will make strange noises when I running it with the lights on. I tried it with a weaker magnet rotor and it doesn't work as well either
 
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