Front and rear drum brakes- any ideas?

[badxampl]

I just picked up a matched set of drum brake hubs for front and rear. I was wondering if anyone has tried/seen a set up with a brake pedal like a traditional motorcycle. I'm not sure if I wanna go with the dual conrol brake lever set-up or not. Was thinking there might be a way to fabricate a rear brake pedal/lever assembly. Any thoughts?

 

[GearNut]

The only thing I can come up with is motorcycles don't have pedals unless there is a kick starter involved.
Having a rear brake pedal on a bicycle with a freewheel rear hub I think would be a tricky endeavor.

 

[bairdco]

actually, a buddy of mine did that years ago on a regular bike without a motor, and i was thinking of doing it again.

he rigged up a linkage that attached to the frame behind the pedal, so he'd pedal back and step on a lever with his heel.

it worked ok, you just need to get used to it. but, since most of the braking is done with the front, it would be pretty cool. just got to make sure you don't jam your foot into the chain by accident. i forget which side the brake arm's on...

i don't like the dual pull levers either. never tried one, but my concern would be jamming the brake on in a turn and losing it 'cause the front grabbed too hard.

 

[badxampl]

The brake arm is on the left side (drivers side, lol) But i'm not sure how well that will work with the drive chain from the motor. I havent got the motor yet, so i may need to hold off on any engineering until then. Just trying to get some ideas in my bean for the planning stages. Also thinking maybe a smaller (like a bar end) lever for the clutch and running the brake levers as normal. I bike a lot and dont really like the idea of mixing up lever function. My little brain couldnt handle that.....

 

[Outrunner]

I just picked up a matched set of drum brake hubs for front and rear. I was wondering if anyone has tried/seen a set up with a brake pedal like a traditional motorcycle. I'm not sure if I wanna go with the dual conrol brake lever set-up or not. Was thinking there might be a way to fabricate a rear brake pedal/lever assembly. Any thoughts?

Hey Bad, I've been using dual front and rear drum brakes for over a year, with
over 350 miles of riding. I use a dual pull hand brake, and when adjusted properly it works without
any problems. you can adjust it, so the rear grabs first before the front or whatever feels best. I recommend it.

 

[badxampl]

That may be the inevitability.(going with the dual control lever) The more I look at my frame the less modifying i really want to do with it. I realize the more stuff I add, the more stuff I can break. How do the drums stop the bike? I was so into the aesthetics that I never really looked at the performance end. I'm not gonna be in go fast mode, I'm more the laid-back cruisin type anyways...

Do you have any pics of yours? I would like to find one that could match my other lever as close as possible...

 

[bairdco]

i've got a front drum and a rear coaster brake. i use the drum only, 85% of the time, for stopping at lights. that way i can set up my pedals where i want, since you can't pedal back with the coaster.

in a panic stop, using both brakes stops me with no problems.

the drum won't lock up, either, so i don't worry about flipping over the bars. it's grabby enough to slide out if i mashed on it in a corner, but i never do that.

for reference, i've got an "Atom" drum, which aren't made anymore, but they're basically the same as what Worksman uses now.

after hard stopping for about 6 months now, the brake shoes still look like new.

 

[Blackrain2012]

yeah man, i have a dirt bike and know exactly what your talking about but if you wanna do it your gonna need a STRONG pivot point and a lot of bearings.

 

[Chalo]

for reference, i've got an "Atom" drum, which aren't made anymore, but they're basically the same as what Worksman uses now.

after hard stopping for about 6 months now, the brake shoes still look like new.

Atom drums looked great, huge and stylish with that cooling fin texture on the hub shell. I have reconditioned a bunch of them and built wheels on a few. But I have never managed to get one working worth a darn. They are really weak compared to Sturmey Archer, Sachs, and Shimano drums, I'm sad to say. In the past I have (briefly) considered taking one to an outfit that puts new shoe material on old backings, in the hope that a more modern compound would be an improvement.

But the shoes do seem to last a long, long time.

My best results with Atom drums have been on 16" wheels, where the small wheel radius makes the most of the modest available braking force. The fancier models of original Schwinn Krates came with Atom drums laced into 24 spoke, 16 inch wheels. The fact that Atom drums were used on some large-wheeled tandem bikes is pretty frightening to contemplate.

I look forward to trying 90mm Sturmey Archer or 115mm Maxicar drum brakes one day.

Chalo

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

Drum brakes look kewl, but nothing stops as well as a disc brake.

Those old front Atom drum brakes are worth a lot of money these days!

 

[bairdco]

chalo, i have 24" wheels, and if i adjust the drum brake tighter, i can do endos on it. i've had older sturmey archer drums that were really bad, didn't even compare with the atom.

the Worksman drums are very similar to the Atom. Wayne, at worksman told me they were made in France. they might be Grimeca's. i have one on another bike and it stops awesome. not as good as my atom, though.

before i had the motor on the bike with the atom, i could lean back and skid the front wheel.

i think it's all in how the shoes seat in.

for the vintage look, though, you can't beat it.

 

[Chalo]

Drum brakes look kewl, but nothing stops as well as a disc brake.

Actually, even 8" dics don't have as much potential power available as a good rim brake, like a V-brake with Kool Stop pads and a booster arch.

I have bikes with 165mm, 203mm, and 229mm disc brake rotors. None of them even come close to the stopping power of these rim brakes I made:

Most cyclists don't need extreme stopping power, because they aren't that heavy and they don't ride that fast. But I'm a very big guy-- six feet eight and 330 pounds at the moment-- and I've ridden every day at body weights from 220 to 410 pounds. I've had electric bikes that grossed over 500 pounds with me aboard. So I've needed to work out brakes that really have a lot of power, not just those that come on strong at first with a light touch at the lever (for instance hydraulic discs). There is a big difference between strong initial response and high maximum stopping power.

Tandems, heavy hauling bikes, pedicabs, and 40+ mph motorized bikes can all get good use out of major stopping power. Normal riders on normal bikes can't use nearly so much stopping power because they'd just tip up before it all came on line.

Chalo

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

99.99999999% of us can't get our hands on one of a kind custom brakes like yours!! (but they do look awesome!!)

 

[Chalo]

99.99999999% of us can't get our hands on one of a kind custom brakes like yours!! (but they do look awesome!!)

The "civilian" version of my brakes is generally available, though. Here's one example:

All you need is your choice of a good quality linear-pull brake

plus a pair of Kool Stop pads

plus a booster arch

Put them all together, and you can have a brake that outperforms any bicycle disc brake-- but doesn't warp, rub, or make noise, and is simpler and easier to maintain.

Chalo

 

[reb1]

If your bicycle does not have disk brake mounts there is a much better brake than the V brake. Magura who makes disk brakes makes the HS33. It is a hydraulic rim brake. They stop as good or better than many disks and are low maintenance. I have used the HS66 that is no longer made for going on 9 years. They use mineral oil in the lines and you can change the pads with your fingers. Down hill racers like them. Remember to push with your arms and keep your but on the seat when you apply the front brake. Face plants are painful. There are videos on there site on how to setup and bleed. I have never worked on them other than to replace pads since I initially set them up on my tandem. https://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=80201

 

[Chalo]

If your bicycle does not have disk brake mounts there is a much better brake than the V brake. Magura who makes disk brakes makes the HS33. It is a hydraulic rim brake.

I used one of those on my bike about twenty years ago. I liked the power (even though I hadn't yet discovered the benefits of booster arches, which are big help for the Magura rim brake) and the simplicity of the brake. I was not crazy about the lever (the only lever I could use) or the fact that there was no way to tune the feel or mechanical advantage of the system. My alternative at the time was a cantilever brake-- those can be frustratingly fidgety to set up, but boy are they tunable. After a time, I switched to a normal cantilever that offered me the brake response I wanted with a lever I liked, in a system I could repair or adjust on the road as necessary.

I have a set of HS22 brakes in my goodie pile that I have never installed. The levers are much more pleasant than that of the old Magura brake I had back when. But I have no inclination whatsoever to use hydraulics anymore. When they don't work perfectly, they don't work at all-- and there's not a thing you can do about it until you get to a well-equipped workshop.

You'll notice that one of the brakes I posted a picture of is just a Magura hydraulic rim brake with integrated stiffening arches on both sides. That was for a trials bike for a friend of mine.

I don't think Magura rim brakes offer more gross stopping power than a well configured, boosted linear-pull brake with good pads. But they do offer more of an abrupt on/off feel if that pleases you. They don't have to "wind up" to really get working, like a cable brake that is set up for maximum power.

Any brake in that class offers more stopping power than a normal sized rider on a normal length bike can use. That makes them especially good if you're a heavier than normal rider, tandemist, recumbent geek, or pedicab driver, or if you have a stretch bike or cargo hauler.

Chalo

 

[Goat Herder]

While I must adment I have not used Cool Stop brake pads yet. I had often thought there should be good stopping leverage there. I have been an adamant fan of disk brakes up to this point. After reading and seeing this it is defiantly time for some Cool Stop pads.

Thanks for sharing Chalo!

Do you have a part number for some recommended Cool Stop pads? I am no light weight!

 

[timboellner]

I.ll jump in ,
KOOL STOP stuff 5 pages worth:
Kool Stop-- Bicycles, Bike parts, Mountain Bikes, BMX, Road Bikes, Haro Bikes, KHS Bikes, Felt Bikes at Niagara Cycle Works

the salmon are the special rubber compound you should try

 

[Goat Herder]

I.ll jump in ,
KOOL STOP stuff 5 pages worth:
Kool Stop-- Bicycles, Bike parts, Mountain Bikes, BMX, Road Bikes, Haro Bikes, KHS Bikes, Felt Bikes at Niagara Cycle Works

the salmon are the special rubber compound you should try

Awesome how do I know I got an inferior set of them without buying them all to find out? Oh I see it now you said the Salmon?

While I have never tried drum brakes, I am sure at this point from my experience anything is better than a rim brake. Why they fade to fast. Pads wither away immediately, so well intended and adjusted brakes are soon a joke. If'n there are a set of pads out there? Who's done there homework? I will use them!

I can take my Morini build, the bike and I combined at about 375 pounds if I am not carrying any thing. I can stop on a dime all day long . The Morini is a very playful motor! So I do a ton of near panic stops. I have well over 2000 miles on my disk brakes and have not had to do squat to them!! Nada thing at all whatsoever except for very slight cable adjustments that took 2 seconds if that..

For the record I don't run small rotors either[think down hill competition]. BB7's Love them and there grab and feel to me has totally been fine tunable.

If a rim brake can do that? And should by a matter of leverage. I am a changed man indeed......

 

[reb1]

The secret ingredient in salmon pads is rust. Yes iron oxide mixed in the compound allows them to increase the drag on the rim.
I have Paul V brakes with travel agents and boosters on my mountain bike. I need to adjust these on a regular basis. I have had to replace travel agents before because of premature failure. If you have a failure on any brake it is going to be from worn parts or an accident. The Magura does not have the worn part problems that the cable brakes do. They do not need to be adjusted for toe because they do not squeal like a stuck pig. I believe the problems people give for not using such a good brake are from not understanding how they work. There are videos on there site that explain how to set them up. Fluid compresses less than cables stretch. The HS33s come with the brake boosters. You need them to have proper modulation. I am looking at the lightfoot smoothie. they will put the Subaru 35cc on it. They have setup the gear box so it hooks into the drive train of the bicycle. The only type of disk brake that interests me is a tandem rated hydraulic.