The Rustoration Build Off

[bairdco]

ask and ye shall recieve. oddly enough, i was just about to go outside and measure the one on my Vogue, so i could make one. if i can find the steel channel in that size from my metal-guy, it'll be easy.

for the extra supports that go inside the triangle part, i'm just going to bolt those in, since i don't have a welder.

i tried to get a close up of the mounting hardware, but it won't come out. all mine are, is two pins that go through the stand, then the frame, and are held on by cotter pins.

the fender clip is mounted with two bolts, one of which is the backing of the reflector.

here's pics...

 

[bairdco]

here's more:

(edit) got some of the attachment studs...)

 

[BarelyAWake]

Noice bairdco, thanks! I'm usin' the company printer AWS to kick out some copies

 

[bairdco]

i just did some more measurements, so i know how much steel to buy. if i straightened out the channel, it's 37" and the flat bar for the inside is 21".

i'll add a few inches, y'know, room for error.

i figure all this could be bent and made up without any tools but a hacksaw, vice and a drill. it's crazy that these go for $50+ on Ebay.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Defo all about the "room for error" thing lol, given the resources where I work I tend to double up on the raw materials when I plan on fabbin' something - that way I get at least one "get outa oopsie free card"

Thanks for the measurements tho - it saves me the headache of comin' up w/a ballpark figure (hate for the math)

 

[silverbear]

I'll post a few photos later of the rear drop stand from the 38 Elgin as it is made a little differently. I was looking at aluminum channel at the hardware and am thinking I may try that. I did my first aluminum soldering the other day and am picturing something going that route. I have a question regarding the rear fender catch or whatever you'd call that bent piece of metal. Assuming one wanted to reproduce the same thing (and another idea may present itself t one of us) how would you re temper the metal once it was bent into shape, so that it was springy and would retain it's new shape? How do ya do that?
SB

 

[BarelyAWake]

Thanks silverbear - a few different examples will only provide me w/more options! Gotta love havin' choices

To get the springy back in a chunk o'steel you used heat to bend, get it red hot (the whole thing, and as uniform as possible - that's the tricky bit) and wait a few to let it cool some (just after dark orange or less) but not too much, then "quench" it in oil by dropping it in (literally, again temperature uniformity) - clean motor oil is fine... mebbe a thin viscosity ifn yer picky. Cool it too fast and it'll be brittle, too slow and it'll be soft - you gotta find the happy place heh (warning: this is a "backyard" DIY method, I'm sure there's far better but it's good 'nuff fer me)

This takes a lil practice but it's simple enough, best yet - you won't ruin the piece tryin' it again

Still - I wouldn't bother, cold bent is good 'nuff and I think any shop vice would do it *shrug* these things can't be high carbon steel or anything... I suspect it won't crack if you tried cold bending an old one but I dunno. I was thinkin' of just usin' the press to bend mine.


I dunno if I'd use aluminum for the stand itself, particularly stuff soft enough to bend (can't bend channel anyway) - it's got a lousy wear rate and you might "use it up" scuffing it on the pavement all the time... gawd forbid it should get dragged down the road a ways 'cause my advice failed and the clip wasn't springy 'nuff lol Of course it'd be a lot lighter... I suppose it'd be a matter of usage *shrug* I hated the aluminum kickstand on my Schwinn.

 

[silverbear]

Barely,
Finally got some sunshine so I rolled the 38 Elgin currently stored in the property owner's yurt (she says she likes lookin' at it since as a kid she had an Elgin)... into the outdoors for dropstand pictures. It looks cocked to one side because the bolts holding it to the dropouts aren't tight. If you want more accurate measurements let me know. You may be right about the aluminum getting easily scuffed up and I may make one anyway just because I want to see if I can solder strong corner joints with the aluminum rod. I don't weld, so would need to use bolts or do a one piece with bends if I use steel. Nothing much lost if it doesn't work out. I wasn't planning to let it drag behind anyway and need to figure out a good way to quickly secure and disengage it from the fender.
I haven't done much anything to this bike besides a little cleanup work, pumping up the original tires which are amazingly still in good shape and holding air. I have started work on a behind the seat "floating" gas tank mount which is going to be nice, I think. It does away with the need for a rear rack and is going to be very secure. A couple more parts are involved and will be the subject of another post with more photos of that. I don't like the idea of soldering mounts directly to the juice can tank as I wonder how secure it would be subjected to a thousand miles of vibration. Period rear racks for these old bikes sometimes cost as much as the bike did, so I have had to figure out something secure using stainless steel clamps. I foresee more step through builds down the line and have to keep costs down. Hopefully this will work out well enough that others may benefit. I've been taking photos along the way and when it is done I'll post them. Anyway, that's what the flat aluminum thing is sticking out from behind the seat.
SB

 

[BarelyAWake]

Thanks silverbear - in fact you've managed to provide more than you know

Despite the "sin" of grossly mismatching parts, I like the Elgin chain guard so much I'm gonna hafta go talk to my buddy and see if he's got somethin' like it he might be willing to part with for the Rollfast... I'm not a huge fan of the one I have, tho effective - it screams the wrong decade to me. While ofc the same would be tru of the Elgin, at least it's older heh

 

[bairdco]

that's a big girly chainguard. just kidding, i like the looks of it, and silverbear's trenchcoat won't get caught in the chain.

i tried to find some 1/2" or 3/4" steel channel yesterday at my local metal-man, but he said it was hard to come-by. i'll keep looking, or find something else that'll work.

i took the one off the Vogue and put it on my new bike temporarily, and i just gotta say how much easier it is to work on a bike when it's upright, and you can pedal it, adjust the back wheel, etc...

 

[silverbear]

Yeah, that is a big girly chain guard. One reason I bid on the bike was that chain guard. I'd never seen one like it. Not sure why I like it, but I do. I guess I like the repeating 'wheel' motif.
I'm curious how you guys intend to secure the drop stand to the rear fender. Will you use the same bent metal spring deal as on the originals or something else? I was also just thinking about the channel steel (didn't realize it was hard to come by) and was wondering about metal tubing of some sort, like conduit. I wonder if that is a possibility. I think I'm still going to try one out of the aluminum channel. It seems plenty strong, especially if the corners got beefed up with gussets soldered in. (Scratches head...)
SB

 

[BarelyAWake]

meh... that doesn't bode well fer me gettin' one ifn you've never seen a guard like it bfore lol, but - as it seems awful familiar I almost wonder if I saw one in the barn and it didn't register in my poor befuddled brain Still - it's ossum!

I was plannin' on the same spring-bar whateveryawannacallit as the originals, simple and effective. Sure, it may rattle some but I figure I can attend to that... a leather pad in the recess comes to mind.

As for the aluminum thing, I may have overreacted as I rack up stupid amounts of mileage ina hurry on my MB. Had I left here the day I finished the Schwinn, I've 'nuff to have gone completely across the country and 1/3 of the way back home again already As I suspect you may do at least a lil less riding ya outa be fine. If you do notice excessive signs of wear, it'd be simple 'nuff to add a lil steel plate/bolt head studs as "scuff guards" or w/e.

I'm tryin' my best to keep that in mind w/the Rollfast (high mileage) as I would really like to go on a distance run w/it at some point. So far the only unknown variable is the Sturmey Archer 3 speed... I guess we'll see lol

 

[bairdco]

those aren't that uncommon. i mean, you don't see them on bikes everyday, but they came on a lot of ladies bikes back then. i know Mead, Iver johnson, and i think even Rollfast had them. it was at a time when someone else was producing all the bikes and selling them under different badges. it makes ID'ing bikes kinda hard when they all have the same parts.

wait. here ya go. ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/EARLY-ROLLFAST-LADIES-CHAINGUARD-FOR-28-INCH-WHEEL-BIKE_W0QQitemZ380170237220QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5883e97524

 

[BarelyAWake]

Nice bairdco - that's good to hear... but I think I'm gonna try my buddy first as $50 fer a chainguard makes my wallet angry w/me. Still, it's good to know that should he not have one I could get one regardless.

Fifty bucks... *sigh* Yeah, suppose if I've no other option. I tell ya what - this is such an addiction

 

[weekend-fun]

Nice bairdco - that's good to hear... but I think I'm gonna try my buddy first as $50 fer a chainguard makes my wallet angry w/me. Still, it's good to know that should he not have one I could get one regardless.

Fifty bucks... *sigh* Yeah, suppose if I've no other option. I tell ya what - this is such an addiction

I can agree!

 

[silverbear]

Nice bairdco - that's good to hear... but I think I'm gonna try my buddy first as $50 fer a chainguard makes my wallet angry w/me. Still, it's good to know that should he not have one I could get one regardless.

Fifty bucks... *sigh* Yeah, suppose if I've no other option. I tell ya what - this is such an addiction

All true, still though that particular chain guard did come with Rollfasts and it would look really cool on that bike, which is gonna be yer main ride & all and compared to what parts or even a tune up run for a car, it's a bargain. And did I mention it looks cool?
SB

 

[BarelyAWake]

*sings The Pusher by Steppenwolf*

o.o

 

[perichbrothers]

Silverbear found this pic from a friend.
Looks really similar to your chainguard.
I like how he just reinforced a typically unwanted girls bike too.

TP

 

[silverbear]

Barely,
Sure, blame it one me!
TP,
That looks great on that bike and until you mentioned girl's I hadn't even noticed what it was I was intent on the guard and general look of the build. Very neat. Typically these old step through bikes sell for so much less than the men's models. I'm glad or I couldn't touch old Elgins. Once they have motors and maybe some new paint they aren't girl's bikes anymore in my view; they're motorbicycles. The newer step throughs don't work so well in my opinion since the crossbars don't go as low as some of the vintage bikes. Tell your friend he's got a cool bike. Sometimes it pays to think outside of the box, or in this case the crossbars.
SB

 

[silverbear]

FLOATING MOUNT FOR BEHIND THE SEAT GAS TANK
I've been stuck inside with the east coast blizzard the past couple days so have been fiddling with a different gas tank mount for the step through Elgins. While I will leave the one I have on the 39, which is the subject of this rustoration, the one in this post would have worked for it and has been made for a 38 Elgin with the same kind of seat post. I wanted to do away with the need for a rear rack since newer ones don't usually look right and originals can be very pricey if you can find them at all. I also didn't want to alter the bike so that it could be returned to original sometime in the future by someone else.
So this is the prototype I'd come up with. At first I thought I'd be able to bend the flat piece of aluminum (a part left over from my brother's dock... pretty stout piece of metal), but it would not bend. The rear hole means nothing... it was already there. So, I had to figure a way to change the angle of the plate to lift it... and ground down two nuts (actually fittings from a compression fitting) so that they sandwich the plate and hold it at the right angle. A small clamp keeps the upper nut from riding upwards. It works better than I imagined, but did not keep it all from moving sideways so that is what the two angle pieces are for...
(see next post)