You'd be amazed at the number of men and women who look surprised when I tell them my bike runs on gas. Even though I have a 5-quart see-through gas tank mounted on the top tube.
Tube frame Ebike build
- Thread starter Tony01
- Start date
Yes very amazed. Sometimes they ask if mine is gas or electric. Blows my mind! It just shows that people often have no idea what they’re looking at.
Gas/Electric ?? I thought it was designed to run off of a flux capacitor !!
Figured out the electrical.. or how it’ll go on this bike.
I decided all my high power electrical will be under the battery box, that being my basic components which are controller, charger, J1772 plug, and motor in the wheel. With the controller under I can shorten my motor phase wires by half and gain a little efficiency.
I will have two 12V systems. We will consider “engine running” to be “controller on”. Hazard lights must work when engine is off or on, and headlight must be on when engine is “running”.
My controller requires an isolated DC step down and all I have is a regular 110vac switching 12v7a. It can be run right off the 72v battery. Ran it before, works fine. For headlight and brake/taillights. Cutting it close, but with the uLight module of the Nucular 24f controller outputting 12v2a the 7a isolated should be able to run my headlight with no dimming using the brake as it requires 12v7a.
My blinkers and hazards will run off a 12v10a non-isolated DC step down I got off alibaba for $6. So will the horn, AVC2 J1772 com board, and possibly a sound system.
I bought diodes so I could wire up hazards (all blinkers) and turn signals (one side or the other) through a single flasher. This handlebar switch cost $19 on Amazon and came with a horn and flasher relay. High beam switch will be used for hazards. Left and right circuits will have the diodes to prevent turning the other side on when I have one selected.
I’ll be using my old J1772 plug adapter. J1772 handles are essentially high power 240vac plugs so you must have a 240v capable charger for the bike or cellphone to charge off it. They go up to 7.3kw, most are 6.6kw. I’ll be charging at 4000w max (50 amps DC).
This one I actually bought the bare plug and soldered everything myself with 10awg cables within it. I put a hole in the side for power and communication (L, N, GND, Pilot, Proximity) and opened up the old cable end to fit a regular 110v wall plug. So I can charge my cell or something else, or a friend can charge with me off the same J-plug.
I have a double ended cable that I plug in that socket for 110v charging. Just plug the bike first or it’s hot...
For handling J1772 communication I use this little circuit board called an AVC2.r. All that’s really needed to begin charging is a resistor and diode from pilot to ground, however this one also handles the proximity pin which is the latch on the J-handle. The extra connections on it that are not used are direct taps to the relay within the board, for people who have more complicated contactor setups. The unit requires 12vdc, thus it has two plugs which are power and Pilot/Prox/GND going to the J-plug.
So all my high power stuff will be under batt box, and charger will be in a small bag as it is not waterproof. Plugged but in the case, so I can roll up and take it out of the bag for cooling, and fit a few small items like tools, a lunch, a bottle of whiskey, a glock... there will be a single 72v lead, controller display cable, and AVC2 com cable going up to the tank area where my DCDC step downs and lights wiring will be. And maybe a little stereo. I was thinking a single 6x9 speaker if I could fit it, would be plenty. A cool feature of the controller is that I can plug my controls into the display, or the light module, or the controller itself in case an accident destroys the other components. Will do a lot to keep wiring short and organized.
I decided all my high power electrical will be under the battery box, that being my basic components which are controller, charger, J1772 plug, and motor in the wheel. With the controller under I can shorten my motor phase wires by half and gain a little efficiency.
I will have two 12V systems. We will consider “engine running” to be “controller on”. Hazard lights must work when engine is off or on, and headlight must be on when engine is “running”.
My controller requires an isolated DC step down and all I have is a regular 110vac switching 12v7a. It can be run right off the 72v battery. Ran it before, works fine. For headlight and brake/taillights. Cutting it close, but with the uLight module of the Nucular 24f controller outputting 12v2a the 7a isolated should be able to run my headlight with no dimming using the brake as it requires 12v7a.
My blinkers and hazards will run off a 12v10a non-isolated DC step down I got off alibaba for $6. So will the horn, AVC2 J1772 com board, and possibly a sound system.
I bought diodes so I could wire up hazards (all blinkers) and turn signals (one side or the other) through a single flasher. This handlebar switch cost $19 on Amazon and came with a horn and flasher relay. High beam switch will be used for hazards. Left and right circuits will have the diodes to prevent turning the other side on when I have one selected.
I’ll be using my old J1772 plug adapter. J1772 handles are essentially high power 240vac plugs so you must have a 240v capable charger for the bike or cellphone to charge off it. They go up to 7.3kw, most are 6.6kw. I’ll be charging at 4000w max (50 amps DC).
This one I actually bought the bare plug and soldered everything myself with 10awg cables within it. I put a hole in the side for power and communication (L, N, GND, Pilot, Proximity) and opened up the old cable end to fit a regular 110v wall plug. So I can charge my cell or something else, or a friend can charge with me off the same J-plug.
I have a double ended cable that I plug in that socket for 110v charging. Just plug the bike first or it’s hot...
For handling J1772 communication I use this little circuit board called an AVC2.r. All that’s really needed to begin charging is a resistor and diode from pilot to ground, however this one also handles the proximity pin which is the latch on the J-handle. The extra connections on it that are not used are direct taps to the relay within the board, for people who have more complicated contactor setups. The unit requires 12vdc, thus it has two plugs which are power and Pilot/Prox/GND going to the J-plug.
So all my high power stuff will be under batt box, and charger will be in a small bag as it is not waterproof. Plugged but in the case, so I can roll up and take it out of the bag for cooling, and fit a few small items like tools, a lunch, a bottle of whiskey, a glock... there will be a single 72v lead, controller display cable, and AVC2 com cable going up to the tank area where my DCDC step downs and lights wiring will be. And maybe a little stereo. I was thinking a single 6x9 speaker if I could fit it, would be plenty. A cool feature of the controller is that I can plug my controls into the display, or the light module, or the controller itself in case an accident destroys the other components. Will do a lot to keep wiring short and organized.
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So this weekend, I worked on the odds and ends.
Yesterday morning drew up the wiring diagram which was necessary for the lights.
Also fabbed up my seat support yesterday and got it painted today.
I made a plate and rear turn signal mount as well, but I put the mount holes on the seat support in the wrong spot. The way I did it the turn signals will be sticking out under the seat a bit, but I really don’t want to drill holes into the side of the seat.
Got the support painted up and assembled the frame and rear suspension. Using a ratchet strap to preload the shock to fit my chain travel limiters.
Drilled and tapped my batt box open end and end cap for 10-32 1/4” long screws. Also cut slots for the 9mm thick 6 gauge battery cables that will come out the bottom.
Gotta figure the rear lights and plate mount tomorrow. I really hoped to have a roller today but those little problems set me back.
Yesterday morning drew up the wiring diagram which was necessary for the lights.
Also fabbed up my seat support yesterday and got it painted today.
I made a plate and rear turn signal mount as well, but I put the mount holes on the seat support in the wrong spot. The way I did it the turn signals will be sticking out under the seat a bit, but I really don’t want to drill holes into the side of the seat.
Got the support painted up and assembled the frame and rear suspension. Using a ratchet strap to preload the shock to fit my chain travel limiters.
Drilled and tapped my batt box open end and end cap for 10-32 1/4” long screws. Also cut slots for the 9mm thick 6 gauge battery cables that will come out the bottom.
Gotta figure the rear lights and plate mount tomorrow. I really hoped to have a roller today but those little problems set me back.
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Got my terminal block installed. It had thru contact holes so I cut them off and epoxied a piece of 3/16 plastic and cut to fit. This is a big one that I got at the electronic surplus store before they went out of business. It will fit 8x 11mm wide ring terminals. Not cheap nowadays.
Soldered up my battery plugs. Using QS8 connectors with 6 gauge cables. The QS8 uses 8mm bullets and has a built-in 5ohm pre-charge resistor for a 15a inrush current at 75v.
Got my battery tucked in. I have two of these balancers with one smoked diode or resistor. For now I’ll be running without but I have to figure this within a couple months.
Different balancer on a different battery, not a wiring problem (checked)
So on the first one the #1 ground is no good, on the other the #12 ground or the same wire as #11 positive, is no good. Dunno how that happened.
I got very mad at myself because I planned to hide the batt cables in a piece of heat shrink tubing and forgot. But this 1/4 spiral wire loom organizer worked out find for a much larger section.
Soldered up my battery plugs. Using QS8 connectors with 6 gauge cables. The QS8 uses 8mm bullets and has a built-in 5ohm pre-charge resistor for a 15a inrush current at 75v.
Got my battery tucked in. I have two of these balancers with one smoked diode or resistor. For now I’ll be running without but I have to figure this within a couple months.
Different balancer on a different battery, not a wiring problem (checked)
So on the first one the #1 ground is no good, on the other the #12 ground or the same wire as #11 positive, is no good. Dunno how that happened.
I got very mad at myself because I planned to hide the batt cables in a piece of heat shrink tubing and forgot. But this 1/4 spiral wire loom organizer worked out find for a much larger section.
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Finished all my welding and fabrication. Now you know why I put all my builds in this section of the forum.
The display mount comes for mounting on the end of a steerer stem spacer. Found a suitable tube, welded it up to fit my handlebar clamp and locked it down with a quarter-twenty.
Fabbed up my taillights and plate mount.
Re-did my J1772 car charger plug with longer AC and com cables, and re-did my AVC2 wiring.
Fabbed up all high power wire harness that will bolt to the 72v bus of the terminal block. Batt cable (QS8), charger cable (XT90), and power cable for DCDC converters (XT60).
Shortened my motor cables by 40%, soldered new hall wires and crimped new phase wire lugs. The phase wires are 8awg but all I had was 6g terminals and 8g splice connectors, luckily the 8g connectors fit inside the 6g terminals with a minor press fit.
Finished my battery and tucked the cables in. Found this custom wire clamp I machined at an old job that dropped right in. Has a R.063 on all surfaces of the wire side.
The display mount comes for mounting on the end of a steerer stem spacer. Found a suitable tube, welded it up to fit my handlebar clamp and locked it down with a quarter-twenty.
Fabbed up my taillights and plate mount.
Re-did my J1772 car charger plug with longer AC and com cables, and re-did my AVC2 wiring.
Fabbed up all high power wire harness that will bolt to the 72v bus of the terminal block. Batt cable (QS8), charger cable (XT90), and power cable for DCDC converters (XT60).
Shortened my motor cables by 40%, soldered new hall wires and crimped new phase wire lugs. The phase wires are 8awg but all I had was 6g terminals and 8g splice connectors, luckily the 8g connectors fit inside the 6g terminals with a minor press fit.
Finished my battery and tucked the cables in. Found this custom wire clamp I machined at an old job that dropped right in. Has a R.063 on all surfaces of the wire side.
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Starting to come together.
Today I installed the battery. I had to add a separate plug for ground so I could connect it first.
Wired up my turn signals, mounted the rear lights. Fabbed up a low power electronics tray. Mounted battery. Had to adjust rear shock for preload (which required ratchet strapping, removing limit chains, adjusting, then ratchet strapping again and putting chains back on). Got it set about perfect.
Today I installed the battery. I had to add a separate plug for ground so I could connect it first.
Wired up my turn signals, mounted the rear lights. Fabbed up a low power electronics tray. Mounted battery. Had to adjust rear shock for preload (which required ratchet strapping, removing limit chains, adjusting, then ratchet strapping again and putting chains back on). Got it set about perfect.
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Yeah I kinda messed up on the styling. It’s the downward slope of that pair of short top tubes that tie into the headtube. I didn’t draw or account for the headlight when I drew it. Seems it needs some small diameter headlights side by side. It would look ok with flat bars streetfighter style. But be uncomfortable. To be honest I like the look with the big headlight and riser bars as above.
This might look ok with a low rise bar. Hoping to finish it today.
This might look ok with a low rise bar. Hoping to finish it today.
BMX bars work for me. The battery pack is not where I expected it to be. The ease of access I get.
Low CG is always on my mind. What fits under the battery pack? Air cooled BMS and motor controller?
Bigger the headlight Tony, the better to see you. Those twin bullet lights may be useful but don't clearly indicate motorcycle as well.
Tom
Low CG is always on my mind. What fits under the battery pack? Air cooled BMS and motor controller?
Bigger the headlight Tony, the better to see you. Those twin bullet lights may be useful but don't clearly indicate motorcycle as well.
Tom
Hey Tom. The battery pack is the way it is because one customer paid the half down then didn’t want it. I wasn’t about to spend 6-8hrs rebuilding it from his long flat pack configuration. I was able to square it up and fit it in that box tube in about fifteen minutes. Under box is controller, J-plug, and charger cables attached to the terminal block right in front of pivot. Above box is all 12v related stuff. No BMS for now, if you scroll up you’ll see I have two faulty ones with a bad resistor or something. I guess I should make a video sometime.
Took a couple pics, left side under batt box, and one from under the bike showing the terminal block. I have a little bag with charger that will go in that open area.
Took a couple pics, left side under batt box, and one from under the bike showing the terminal block. I have a little bag with charger that will go in that open area.
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Really want to finish this so I can move on to my next build. Building this is like eating dog food. Boring.
Spent all day yesterday with the soldering iron. Made my 12V lights harness and tested operation. No mistakes!
The easy way to do turn signals and hazards- the same flasher relay is used for both. For hazards a wire to each turn signal with a diode is wired, so when using turn signals the +12v doesn’t also power the other side.
Wired up my DC step down converters. Really only need one, but I have two that are lower power, and only one of them is isolated (the lights module of the controller requires an isolated 12v). The one on the left is the isolated one; it is simply a regular 12v power supply that plugs into the wall and works fine off 72vdc. That one will power my head and brake light through the controller, while the non-isolated DC step down will run side lights and J1772 controller.. and possibly a stereo system in the future.
Also did my front brake switch. The switch itself is a fine thread 1/4-32 which I don’t have a tap for. So what I did is drilled and tapped the brake handle for 1/4-28 and countersunk it until there were just a few threads, and forced it in. Worked out!
While the bike will be finished today, tonight I must collect all my receipts for all parts and materials and fill out my Statement of Construction and Application for Title forms to bring to the DMV in the morning. Two weeks out from being road legal.
Spent all day yesterday with the soldering iron. Made my 12V lights harness and tested operation. No mistakes!
The easy way to do turn signals and hazards- the same flasher relay is used for both. For hazards a wire to each turn signal with a diode is wired, so when using turn signals the +12v doesn’t also power the other side.
Wired up my DC step down converters. Really only need one, but I have two that are lower power, and only one of them is isolated (the lights module of the controller requires an isolated 12v). The one on the left is the isolated one; it is simply a regular 12v power supply that plugs into the wall and works fine off 72vdc. That one will power my head and brake light through the controller, while the non-isolated DC step down will run side lights and J1772 controller.. and possibly a stereo system in the future.
Also did my front brake switch. The switch itself is a fine thread 1/4-32 which I don’t have a tap for. So what I did is drilled and tapped the brake handle for 1/4-28 and countersunk it until there were just a few threads, and forced it in. Worked out!
While the bike will be finished today, tonight I must collect all my receipts for all parts and materials and fill out my Statement of Construction and Application for Title forms to bring to the DMV in the morning. Two weeks out from being road legal.
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I like how you super gauge the conductors.
Back in the 70's I wired up my Harley trike chopper with hardware store 12ga on several loads.
Just turned the ignition on "what's that smell?" plastic insulation sagging off some high load conductors.
8ga fixed it. Should have never sold that trike.
Tom
Back in the 70's I wired up my Harley trike chopper with hardware store 12ga on several loads.
Just turned the ignition on "what's that smell?" plastic insulation sagging off some high load conductors.
8ga fixed it. Should have never sold that trike.
Tom
I never found a smell that could provoke panic in a person like the acrid smell of burning vehicle wiring.
Steve.
Steve.
My 69 skylark caught on fire... Going up on 2 weels trying to elude the cops the carb spilled over and caught the plug wires on fire... Headers were glowing... I jumped out and put it out with a sweat shirt... They were yelling get on the ground and the usual stuff and I said just let me put this out first then you can take me to jail... Only time I got a ticket in that car...
You’re an old fart too huh Mossy! I was gonna say enough with the fire stories but I got one too... I blew up my last bike...
Was at the house, had just started to take apart my bike to access the battery and check the balance, Sat morning, when my riding buddies called and said they were up in the mountains charging for the next couple hours. I said OK I’m on my way. Rolling about 60mph a few miles from them the bike blew up suddenly. A corner cell had got damaged on one of the tabs in one of my prior accidents and decided to let go, under power it blew up so hard it blew that half of the battery right out the side. I thought I blew a tire but I looked down and saw the batteries and charger hanging out the bike by the cables like intestines.
The half of cells that blew out of the bike all got road rashed but they didn’t catch fire. Well I collected them in my side cover and tried to flag down a ride home. Eventually a lady walked up and said she has a neighbor with a truck. After about two hours total he showed up. We loaded the bike and the remaining parts in his truck and started rolling back to my house.
About ten minutes in, the road rashed cells caught fire in the bed. We didn’t have tools so I wrapped my hand in my sweatshirt to try to get them out. His truck bed had a rubber mat that began to burn too. Then the plastic bedliner. After waiting for the cells to stop burning on the side of the road, we continued.
Five minutes later the bedliner caught fire AGAIN! Again with nothing to put it out with I burned all my fingertips with what was left of my sweatshirt trying to put it out.
It happened a couple more times. It set the fiberglass of the bike itself on fire!! I paid for his tank of gas and replaced his bedliner. Lucky his truck didn’t get scrapped...
At that point I didn’t know what the problem was; for all I knew every pack I built with those cells had a problem, so I recalled them all. I use different cells now.
Was at the house, had just started to take apart my bike to access the battery and check the balance, Sat morning, when my riding buddies called and said they were up in the mountains charging for the next couple hours. I said OK I’m on my way. Rolling about 60mph a few miles from them the bike blew up suddenly. A corner cell had got damaged on one of the tabs in one of my prior accidents and decided to let go, under power it blew up so hard it blew that half of the battery right out the side. I thought I blew a tire but I looked down and saw the batteries and charger hanging out the bike by the cables like intestines.
The half of cells that blew out of the bike all got road rashed but they didn’t catch fire. Well I collected them in my side cover and tried to flag down a ride home. Eventually a lady walked up and said she has a neighbor with a truck. After about two hours total he showed up. We loaded the bike and the remaining parts in his truck and started rolling back to my house.
About ten minutes in, the road rashed cells caught fire in the bed. We didn’t have tools so I wrapped my hand in my sweatshirt to try to get them out. His truck bed had a rubber mat that began to burn too. Then the plastic bedliner. After waiting for the cells to stop burning on the side of the road, we continued.
Five minutes later the bedliner caught fire AGAIN! Again with nothing to put it out with I burned all my fingertips with what was left of my sweatshirt trying to put it out.
It happened a couple more times. It set the fiberglass of the bike itself on fire!! I paid for his tank of gas and replaced his bedliner. Lucky his truck didn’t get scrapped...
At that point I didn’t know what the problem was; for all I knew every pack I built with those cells had a problem, so I recalled them all. I use different cells now.
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Here’s all the wiring I did this weekend. The bike is basically done, I just have to figure out how I’m going to tuck in all this wiring. I shoulda put some black sheet behind the green tank area tubing to fit all the wiring. And I shoulda used smaller connectors to save space but this is all I had. I’ll look around and maybe re-do the wiring to make it more compact later on.
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As stories go, you win Tony. 
Frickin quality control is out of control with lithium battery makers. It is time to demand on shore battery production. Or only work with supply sources with stringent Q A,
Tom
Frickin quality control is out of control with lithium battery makers. It is time to demand on shore battery production. Or only work with supply sources with stringent Q A,
Tom
Actually Tom batteries are pretty tight with QA. It was just that batch of LG cells that had an issue and got recalled. I still use Korean cells. They’re very good. My battery is the same as the one on the Minibike build just arranged the two bricks end to end. I hear that guy riding by every week over 6 months now. They make the cells now in nearly double the capacity. Next build thread coming soon.
I rode it last night. It’s nice! Lots of tuning needed. I’ve got my brake levers hooked up but I only want the brake light to come on with them and no regen brake, and my variable regen isn’t strong enough. Also I cannot hit more than about 55mph. So yea tuning ahead.
I rode it last night. It’s nice! Lots of tuning needed. I’ve got my brake levers hooked up but I only want the brake light to come on with them and no regen brake, and my variable regen isn’t strong enough. Also I cannot hit more than about 55mph. So yea tuning ahead.