The Rustoration Build Off

[bairdco]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

i've been searching around trying to come up with what year, etc my colson is. they seem to be pretty rare, especially the 24 inchers. not rare enough to be worth millions, though. rats...

colson became evans-colson in the 50's, and i know mine's older than that. the closest thing i could find was a 40's catalogue. mine looks like the "double bar junior" except the rear drop outs don't have the extra pieces to hold the rear drop kickstand. the paint, sprocket, and everything else is the same.

that catalogues pretty cool. it's got all the accessories and brands that came on each bike, so it's a good guide for restorers. CONTENTdm Collection | Compound Object Viewer

mine doesn't look like it ever had a tank on it, but everything's original except the tires and the rear fender.

oh, and it's missing the skip tooth chain. luckily, i happen to have an extra.

wheels have been relaced with new 15g. spokes, so that's gotta go. i'm gonna go with 11g. and really beef them up.

the handlebars, grips, and seat are pretty well destroyed, but that's no problem. it needs the strut rods on the forks, but i think i can make those.

the biggest problem will be the tank. if i made an in-frame tank, it'd hold about as much as a beer can. the top tubes are only two and a half inches apart at the widest point, and the frame tapers down to nothing pretty quick. i've got some ideas, because there's no way i'm putting the peanut on there.

another problem is that giant chaingaurd. it's gotta go for the motor to fit, or i gotta cut a slot for the cranks and lower it. i really don't want to cut it, it's perfect except for the rust. but if i take it off, then it's just not a colson...

as far as paint, i dunno yet. the more i look at it, the more my ideas change. keep it rusty? repaint it stock? or mess it all up crazy...

the coolest thing is the rear end. it's a loop tail. where the seat stays and the chain stays are all one piece. bmx'ers think they invented that. pffft. this little bike is rock solid. it'll be nuke-proof after i relace the wheels.

anyway, i'm gonna go play with it. i gotta put it together as a bike first, and ride it to the store, see how she handles.

and i'm definitely down for a vintage build-off. seeing as how my other build's still on hold...

 

[silverbear]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

ROFL silverbear - sounds like a plan, The Crusty Comp is on

That Elgin really is about perfect for a step through HT isn't it? It looks as if with just a lil more standoff on the seat post, the forward motor mount would line up with the cross support between the Dtubes... with welded mount tabs, it'd look factory! Or am I seein' it wrong?

While the frame is gorgeous, with far less wear than mine - those fenders are... um... ooph... Are you bringing those back?

Yeah, the fenders are let us say, a challenge. And the skirts are worse. I had a 41 Elgin they came from whose frame went missing somehow. I bought this frame, tank and fork on eBay for $38.00. I agree that the engine mounting is pretty much a plug in. I can work on the fenders, chainguard and skirts here in my trailer, so it is something to while away winter evenings. Reproductions aren't made for this model bike so I either pay a small fortune for ones in really nice shape or see what I can do with what I have. I don't have much idea how they will turn out, but they have to end up better than they are now. I'll smooth out little indentations with JB Weld as 'body filler', take my time and hope for the best. I doubt if I'll ever sell it. Even with imperfections it will be a cool old bike and bound to get some looks. It will be mine, just like that Rollfast will be yours and the Colson will be Bairdco's, each one of a kind. How cool is that?
SB

 

[silverbear]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

i've been searching around trying to come up with what year, etc my colson is. they seem to be pretty rare, especially the 24 inchers. not rare enough to be worth millions, though. rats...

colson became evans-colson in the 50's, and i know mine's older than that. the closest thing i could find was a 40's catalogue. mine looks like the "double bar junior" except the rear drop outs don't have the extra pieces to hold the rear drop kickstand. the paint, sprocket, and everything else is the same.

that catalogues pretty cool. it's got all the accessories and brands that came on each bike, so it's a good guide for restorers. CONTENTdm Collection | Compound Object Viewer

mine doesn't look like it ever had a tank on it, but everything's original except the tires and the rear fender.

oh, and it's missing the skip tooth chain. luckily, i happen to have an extra.

wheels have been relaced with new 15g. spokes, so that's gotta go. i'm gonna go with 11g. and really beef them up.

the handlebars, grips, and seat are pretty well destroyed, but that's no problem. it needs the strut rods on the forks, but i think i can make those.

the biggest problem will be the tank. if i made an in-frame tank, it'd hold about as much as a beer can. the top tubes are only two and a half inches apart at the widest point, and the frame tapers down to nothing pretty quick. i've got some ideas, because there's no way i'm putting the peanut on there.

another problem is that giant chaingaurd. it's gotta go for the motor to fit, or i gotta cut a slot for the cranks and lower it. i really don't want to cut it, it's perfect except for the rust. but if i take it off, then it's just not a colson...

as far as paint, i dunno yet. the more i look at it, the more my ideas change. keep it rusty? repaint it stock? or mess it all up crazy...

the coolest thing is the rear end. it's a loop tail. where the seat stays and the chain stays are all one piece. bmx'ers think they invented that. pffft. this little bike is rock solid. it'll be nuke-proof after i relace the wheels.

anyway, i'm gonna go play with it. i gotta put it together as a bike first, and ride it to the store, see how she handles.

and i'm definitely down for a vintage build-off. seeing as how my other build's still on hold...

The more I look at your frame the more I like it. The original paint scheme looks good, too. I see what you mean about the chain guard. Have you tried sitting a motor in the frame? You'll think of something.
SB

 

[bairdco]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

went to get some 11g. spokes today. found a shop that had plenty. when i get there, the guy starts looking for the sizes, then tells me they're 3 bucks each, plus $1 for the nipples. i wanted 116 of them.

guess i'll buy them from husky. 19 bucks for a pack of 50.

went to another place to buy some scrap aluminum, and me and the guy always talk about whatever, i tell him i've got a colson. he said he's had a few of those over the years. he asks me how old it is, i tell him it's '40's, i think.

he says look at the serial number. it'll tell you the exact date.

B2739 february 7th, 1939. they sure made it easy...

 

[silverbear]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

went to get some 11g. spokes today. found a shop that had plenty. when i get there, the guy starts looking for the sizes, then tells me they're 3 bucks each, plus $1 for the nipples. i wanted 116 of them.

guess i'll buy them from husky. 19 bucks for a pack of 50.

went to another place to buy some scrap aluminum, and me and the guy always talk about whatever, i tell him i've got a colson. he said he's had a few of those over the years. he asks me how old it is, i tell him it's '40's, i think.

he says look at the serial number. it'll tell you the exact date.

B2739 february 7th, 1939. they sure made it easy...

Cool, 1939, same as my Elgin. When I was stripping the frame down to bare metal (many hours) I was wondering about whose bike it was... a birthday present? Christmas? Some boy was really happy riding that Colson for the first time. I know I felt a kind of connection to whoever it was who first owned my Elgin. I wonder if that Elgin girl and the boy who owned your Colson are still alive. I bet they'd have some stories to tell and would be interested in what we're doing. I imagine the boy wished your bike had a motor, maybe he had playing cards attached to make noise on the spokes... used it on his paper route.
And speaking of spokes, geez Louise, that's a lot of money for spokes from that shop! Even from Husky it isn't cheap to be sure, but you're going to end up with some really nice wheels. Funny how the bikes as we buy them are just the starting points... then we pay for this and that and the cash register keeps going ka-ching. It does add up, but at least we can spread out the expense a little at a time and pay as we go. In the end we're going to have really nice motored bikes.
SB

 

[pre-war Schwinn]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

My frame from a local Craigslist ad has taken to the road after only a couple of weeks. I had the oportunity to learn a great deal from the posters on this thread and the other threads pertaining to motorized bikes. A serial number thread gave me my date 1948, and Amazon dot com my parts for the wheels. My Leather Spring seat came with the traded parts the seller of the frame had in his vast collection.. Venice Motor Bikes "personal best" selections for forks and cranks.
That way all I have to mind master bait is an in frame tank. I may saw out a 6 inch section of the top bar and sink the Peanut Tank mounted on the lower bar of this chrome-moly frame that way I will hopefully get a comment on "That" saw cut idea from the same group of builders.

 

[silverbear]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

My frame from a local Craigslist ad has taken to the road after only a couple of weeks. I had the oportunity to learn a great deal from the posters on this thread and the other threads pertaining to motorized bikes. A serial number thread gave me my date 1948, and Amazon dot com my parts for the wheels. My Leather Spring seat came with the traded parts the seller of the frame had in his vast collection.. Venice Motor Bikes "personal best" selections for forks and cranks.
That way all I have to mind master bait is an in frame tank. I may saw out a 6 inch section of the top bar and sink the Peanut Tank mounted on the lower bar of this chrome-moly frame that way I will hopefully get a comment on "That" saw cut idea from the same group of builders.

That's a really nice looking bike you've got there. Boy, I wouldn't cut that nice frame if it were me. I think I'd try to figure some kind of cylindrical tank for behind the seat or wait somehow for either a an in frame tank or even a custom cylindrical one mounted between the forks. Once you cut that frame you can't very well uncut it. I made a tank to fit between the bars on a very similar frame for a 50 Schwinn straight bar Hornet out of a Coleman fuel tank and some copper fittings. I'm posting photos of it below in the process of figuring out how to make one. In the pictures it is temporarily held in place with a couple of zip ties so I could get an idea of what it would look like. After this picture was taken I changed the filler to a threaded male 3/4" copper end with a brass 3/4" hose cap which looks lots better. I'll take another picture soon and post it. I have yet to do the gas line fitting and an air vent, but will sometime this winter. I don't have that bike with me right now, so it isn't really a priority. I found that Schwinn at the dump by the way. I think a cylindrical tank would look equally good between the bars of your bike. Give lots of thought before cutting that frame...
Also regarding the serial number. Each manufacturer had their own way of figuring the number. The Colson number is remarkable in how the day month and year is so easy to determine. Not so with Schwinn or Elgin and with an old Hawthorne I haven't yet made sense of the numbers. I don't think they had chrome moly in 48, so it is unlikely to be either one or the other in my opinion. I'm no expert and could be wrong. What make is the bike? Whatever it is, it's a nice looking build for sure.
SB

 

[bairdco]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

pre-war, that bike's steel. cro-mo was a long way off. still a good bike. DON'T CUT THE FRAME!

silverbear, how thick is that propane cylinder? i was thinking of an easy way to make your gas filler, would be to cut the top of the cylinder off at an angle, rotate it a little, then solder or weld it back on. see where i'm going with this? it'd make the top turn upwards, and you could use the original hole as a filler. if i had time, i'd explain it in detail, if you can't figure out what i mean.

here's my update on the colson.

i took the bike completely apart today, and was surprised how good it actually is. the bearing cups in the BB and the headset show no pitting or galling at all. the rear New Departure coaster brake hub looked almost brand new inside. the brake shoes had almost no wear. the front hub's got a bent axle, and the hub's pretty cheap looking. it doesn't have a name, so i'll try to find a New Departure hub for it when i relace it.

at first glance, i though the bike was brown. it looked like there was so much rust on it, i'd have to bead blast it or something to get all the pits out.

man, was i wrong. a scotch brite pad and a little wet sanding took it right off, revealing this awesome blood red / marroon color. it's a little rough, and the white accents are cracked, but tomorrow i'm gonna get some rubbing compound and see what happens. there's one spot on the left rear seat stay that's been stripped to bare metal, thanks to the previous owner, so i'm gonna see if i can match the paint.

this is the first old bike where i can actually say it has a "patina" and not just rust.

colson sure did a bang up job on their bikes.

now for the bad news.

put it all back together just to see how it rides, rode it to the liquor store and back, and it's super smooth, super solid, but the tires were a little low. so i get home, crack open a beer, and pump up the tires.

i'm sittin on my tool box, with the rear wheel right in my face, pumping up the back tire, when it goes "KARRRANGGGG!!!! i dunno what's wrong, but i know something bad is about to happen. so i frantically start letting the air out, and then there's this BLAMMMO!!! and there's shards of rusted metal bouncing off my face (lucky i wear bulletproof prescription glasses) the side of the rim blew apart, blowing the tire off the rim. (see picture.)

so, those rims are going in the trash, along with the tiny 15g. spokes and the front hub. now i gots to get new rims. hopefully i can find some new old rims.

now, i'm gonna walk 2 blocks to the bar and drink some more, and celebrate the fact that my head's still attached to my neck...

more tomorrow...

 

[BarelyAWake]

Just a heads up - this thread is now "officially" 'The Rustoration Build Off!' so check the OP for rules and guidelines.

 

[jdmpunk]

hay guys i know i dont qulifi for the build but hears a link to a place near me that caries nos and reproduction parts. cant waight to see your rides. memorylaneclassics.com

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

Cool, 1939, same as my Elgin. When I was stripping the frame down to bare metal (many hours) I was wondering about whose bike it was... a birthday present? Christmas? Some boy was really happy riding that Colson for the first time. I know I felt a kind of connection to whoever it was who first owned my Elgin. I wonder if that Elgin girl and the boy who owned your Colson are still alive. I bet they'd have some stories to tell and would be interested in what we're doing. I imagine the boy wished your bike had a motor, maybe he had playing cards attached to make noise on the spokes... used it on his paper route...
SB

Ahh silverbear - such musings are so much a part of any restoration for me, the way I figure it is if yer only interested in the end result and are oblivious to it's history - you just might be missing a large part of what makes these ol' bikes special. Given the generally good condition and size of my bike I figure mine was owned by an older person... but I still picture something like this;

here's my update on the colson.

i took the bike completely apart today, and was surprised how good it actually is. the bearing cups in the BB and the headset show no pitting or galling at all. the rear New Departure coaster brake hub looked almost brand new inside. the brake shoes had almost no wear. the front hub's got a bent axle, and the hub's pretty cheap looking. it doesn't have a name, so i'll try to find a New Departure hub for it when i relace it.

at first glance, i though the bike was brown. it looked like there was so much rust on it, i'd have to bead blast it or something to get all the pits out.

man, was i wrong. a scotch brite pad and a little wet sanding took it right off, revealing this awesome blood red / marroon color. it's a little rough, and the white accents are cracked, but tomorrow i'm gonna get some rubbing compound and see what happens. there's one spot on the left rear seat stay that's been stripped to bare metal, thanks to the previous owner, so i'm gonna see if i can match the paint.

this is the first old bike where i can actually say it has a "patina" and not just rust.

colson sure did a bang up job on their bikes.

now for the bad news.

put it all back together just to see how it rides, rode it to the liquor store and back, and it's super smooth, super solid, but the tires were a little low. so i get home, crack open a beer, and pump up the tires.

i'm sittin on my tool box, with the rear wheel right in my face, pumping up the back tire, when it goes "KARRRANGGGG!!!! i dunno what's wrong, but i know something bad is about to happen. so i frantically start letting the air out, and then there's this BLAMMMO!!! and there's shards of rusted metal bouncing off my face (lucky i wear bulletproof prescription glasses) the side of the rim blew apart, blowing the tire off the rim. (see picture.)

so, those rims are going in the trash, along with the tiny 15g. spokes and the front hub. now i gots to get new rims. hopefully i can find some new old rims.

now, i'm gonna walk 2 blocks to the bar and drink some more, and celebrate the fact that my head's still attached to my neck...

more tomorrow...

Sux about havin' to trash those rims man, but I'm glad to hear you didn't get hurt! I've often hated having to wear prescription lenses, but I can't even count the number of times they've saved my eyes from my own foolishness lol

Speaking of spokes and whatnot, mine are pretty spent. I'll need to replace 'em all with a heavier gauge... not so much a problem really as I'll hafta relace the front for a drum brake and I want to clean up the rear hub a bit anyway. They held up on my Sunday cruise - but I suspect I'm pushing my luck. The rims look pretty good though with only light, scattered pitting so they'll come back nice.

Speakin' of which - any suggestions for a front drum brake? I haven't even looked around yet

The whole skiptooth thing is a lil awkward, I wanna keep it as it's defo sweet - it adds so much to the bike I think... but dangit it's a pain in other ways. Not only did I originally want to get one of SBP's shift kits but my pedal cranks are too close together to clear the engine. I guess I'll hafta do the ol' heat & bend trick, but I'm not really thrilled about that TBH.

 

[pre-war Schwinn]

"RIM THAT EXPLODED" Yikes. there could be a real use for the Bendix Hub in the future ,since Asian tin is a dead givaway for store bought wheels.
Having on goggles is a great Idea. I should wear mine more often. I have them on for the computer screen and usually take them off the rest of the time. that way the bike looks better. I don't see the tiny scratch's here and there and My tank with runs and scratches from RAW looks OK for now.
NO Cut to the top bar of Dayton/Huffman 1948 Dial a ride frame. thanks for the tank clues
"Good Luck" and may the Whole group WIN

 

[silverbear]

Just a heads up - this thread is now "officially" 'The Rustoration Build Off!' so check the OP for rules and guidelines.

What's the OP? Whazzat?
Bairdco... bummer about the rims, but so glad you weren't injured. The coleman tank you asked about is an aluminum container meant to store white gas for the older type camping stoves. I paid $5.00 for it and should have bought a couple more, but I wanted to see how it would work out. The aluminum is pretty thin, but the plus is that it shines up nice once you get the paint or clear coat off. I like shiny. Shiny plus cheap makes my heart sing. There's a picture below showing what I started with. I bought it when I discovered that the threaded filler opening accepted a 3/4" male copper pipe fitting. I believe it was Kevlar (maybe xlite?)who suggested the fitting for the gas line and a tube for venting the air could be soldered in to the copper pipe assembly. Norm suggested building up two spots on the other end with aluminum "welding rod" to make those spots thicker so they could be drilled out and tapped for fittings. I have since found some scrap aluminum tubing which I think I will use on the bottom (wider) end of the tank, since theoretically I could drill a hole at the top of the end and another at the lower side of the end (this is with the tank lying horizontally) stick the pieces of tubing in each hole and use aluminum rod to solder them in place. I think this would work, but want to find another coleman tank to experiment with. I don't want to mess up the one I already have shined up. The tank measures 9" from bottom to the threaded filler opening and is 3 1/16" in diameter. I hope this helps.
SB

 

[silverbear]

"RIM THAT EXPLODED" Yikes. there could be a real use for the Bendix Hub in the future ,since Asian tin is a dead givaway for store bought wheels.
Having on goggles is a great Idea. I should wear mine more often. I have them on for the computer screen and usually take them off the rest of the time. that way the bike looks better. I don't see the tiny scratch's here and there and My tank with runs and scratches from RAW looks OK for now.
NO Cut to the top bar of Dayton/Huffman 1948 Dial a ride frame. thanks for the tank clues
"Good Luck" and may the Whole group WIN

Glad to hear you aren't cutting in to that frame...
SB

 

[pre-war Schwinn]

I put the tank on the top bar where it will stay. I remember a bike I got at 17 the tank seeped gas It was bondo over a crack that just kept leaking. It seeped on to the motor and caught fire one day. Just my luck I thought a hose would put it out. Nope It spread. as it burned helplessly on my lawn I thought of smothering it, and ran for my garage to get a blanket. It was a JAWA 125cc Chekoslovakian dirt bike. I mentioned the fire to my Dad, he took it in to a body man. the leak was fixed and bondo'd again.
Well, fuel is supposed to Burn hot. I would want the fire inside the chamber, so I am cutttin loose home made tanks.
I also had to take the carb apart on the JAWA after 17 miles, because the motor would quit. It took three such episodes before I mentioned it to a Motorcycle type adult, who told me that the cap has to get some air in to keep the fuel moving. the carb will suck out all the air, leaving a vacum in the tank. I drilled a tiny hole in my cap and it worked. I never had to sit by the road side on my way to the beach trying to open my carb and then close it to get the bike to run Duhhhh.
I rode the JAWA to the first day of summer school. cutting off a station wagon as I turned in. The guy driving later became my future father in law. his prized catholic school daughter notice how much he hated me on that bike and she made sure to hook up with me and ask me to marry her several years later.

 

[silverbear]

Below are a couple pictures of the in frame tank as it is so far, showing the male threaded end with brass hose cap. Better than what I had before. I'm looking to use a similar idea with a fire extinguisher for a worksman paperboy. The standard sized home fire extinguisher fits between the crossbars and is both larger in diameter and length than the coleman tank. I'd like to find something more classy than the red steel ones out there. Maybe brass or stainless? Dunno. A propane tank is another possibility. I haven't searched yet, but recall from my youth that a tennis ball can held two cans of beer inside (which I smuggled into my room at military school... heh heh heh) the top of the can would fit back on and if something like that is still around in metal and not plastic, the top could be silver soldered back on to seal it up. Haven't investigated that yet. Another possibility would be an aluminum case for holding fishing rods... shortened up, of course. There's something out there that would be just right. Bairdco, you've got a real good eye and will spot something that will work. When you do, let us know, OK?
SB

 

[silverbear]

I put the tank on the top bar where it will stay. I remember a bike I got at 17 the tank seeped gas It was bondo over a crack that just kept leaking. It seeped on to the motor and caught fire one day. Just my luck I thought a hose would put it out. Nope It spread. as it burned helplessly on my lawn I thought of smothering it, and ran for my garage to get a blanket. It was a JAWA 125cc Chekoslovakian dirt bike. I mentioned the fire to my Dad, he took it in to a body man. the leak was fixed and bondo'd again.
Well, fuel is supposed to Burn hot. I would want the fire inside the chamber, so I am cutttin loose home made tanks.
I also had to take the carb apart on the JAWA after 17 miles, because the motor would quit. It took three such episodes before I mentioned it to a Motorcycle type adult, who told me that the cap has to get some air in to keep the fuel moving. the carb will suck out all the air, leaving a vacum in the tank. I drilled a tiny hole in my cap and it worked. I never had to sit by the road side on my way to the beach trying to open my carb and then close it to get the bike to run Duhhhh.
I rode the JAWA to the first day of summer school. cutting off a station wagon as I turned in. The guy driving later became my future father in law. his prized catholic school daughter notice how much he hated me on that bike and she made sure to hook up with me and ask me to marry her several years later.

In the early 60's I bough a much used and very ugly Jawa 250 which had metal saddlebags built in to the bike. I hated the way it looked, but it sure was fun to ride off road. It was the only motorcycle I ever had. Now I wouldn't mind having that old Jawa again. Sorry yours went up in flames. As for home made tanks, I think if you're careful and watchful it can't be any worse than a stamped out peanut tank. Good luck to you.
SB

 

[silverbear]

Re: Rollfast Skiptooth

went to get some 11g. spokes today. found a shop that had plenty. when i get there, the guy starts looking for the sizes, then tells me they're 3 bucks each, plus $1 for the nipples. i wanted 116 of them.

guess i'll buy them from husky. 19 bucks for a pack of 50.

went to another place to buy some scrap aluminum, and me and the guy always talk about whatever, i tell him i've got a colson. he said he's had a few of those over the years. he asks me how old it is, i tell him it's '40's, i think.

he says look at the serial number. it'll tell you the exact date.

B2739 february 7th, 1939. they sure made it easy...

Bairdco,
I hope when you get to re-lacing replacement wheels with the heavier spokes you'll post a few pictures of the process. While it has nothing to do with the Elgin build, I do have that 24" Hawthorne I found at the dump which has good rims and lousy spokes. I'd sure like to learn how to go about doing them over with heavier spokes. Do you drill the holes out larger then? Do you replace them one at a time or remove all the old ones and start from scratch? I'm totally new to this business of being a wheel wright, so looking over your shoulder a bit would be good. I did bring that Hawthorne with me and stripping it down and repainting is another project for the winter, hopefully.
SB

 

[bairdco]

i'm not gonna be lacing up any wheels for now. got a line on some real wheels, gonna check them out tomorrow (not gonna give out any info till i have them in my hands. gotta keep some secrets)

when i do build them, i do it all at once. it's a chore, but it's rewarding when you got them all straight and you did it yourself.

made two strut rods out of aluminum rods today. smashed the ends flat with a hammer and drilled them for the axles. drilled and tapped 1/4-20 holes in the other ends, dropped in a piece of alumiweld solder, screwed in some bolts, torched 'em, and put a little more alumiweld on 'em. the solder seems to soak into the threads.

gotta clean them up and paint them, hopefully they won't fall apart.

cleaned up the chainguard, there's a before and after pic, and one of what the paint used to look like.

i'm thinking of repainting it with the original color scheme.

that's it for now.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Geezum bairdco's gonna be all painted before I even get my bike completely disassembled lol I got a good start on that yesterday before work - but was defeated by stubborn pedals and time.

I do like the deep red on the Colson, but the green stripes might be a lil too seasonal fer me