The Real Deal on California Law.

[kb18951452]

What i want to know is why anyone is registering in the first place?
As i read the law,
The device you are using is either a Motocycle, or a Motor Driven cycle and/or a Bicycle. And nothing in between.

Code 400 defines a "Motorcycle" as having 2 or 3 wheels, and a seat or saddle for the driver.
Thats Even though some places on the DMV site say that, a motorcycle has 150cc or more, i do not see that in the code. The definition for a motorcycle is so broad, that all bicycles are motorcycles, , but some 2 wheeled vehicles are not actual "Bikes" because a bicycle is defiens as having 2 or 3 wheels, a seat, pedals, and atleast one wheel is 21" in diameter.
Legally speaking my Childeren's "balance bikes" are actually motorcycles, according to the california legal definition of a motorcycle (unless someone can tell me where the definition of a motorcycle includes an engine.

As far as the device your riding being a moped, might i point out that none of the motorized bikes i have seen have "An automatic transmissions". According to the Code 406, a Moped is defined as, having pedals, and either a potor producing under a certain amount of force AND an automatic transmission, OR having an electric motor producing less than 1000 watts of output.

The motor driven cycle definition is "A motorcycle with 149cc engine or less, which would include all bicycles, and any other 2 or 3 wheeled device with an engine smaller than 149cc.

If someone would please find me where it says that a motorcycle has an engine, i would greatly appreciate it. Othewise, i think that you can either classify your devices as a Bicycle, a Motorcycle, or a Motor Driven cycle. But the lack of an automatic transmission means is it not a moped.

I willa add that is can be inferred that a motorcycle has an engine seeing that you are not to mount a motorcycle untill after you have started the engine., that you must report the motorcycles engine numbers, that you must report modifications to the engine compartment or engine frame.
I think it may be safe to say that, on a close reading of the law, a bicycle with attached motor is most closely defined under the motor driven cycle, and not a moped, secondly, that the presence of standing are on your device would make it a motor scooter.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

You need to actually read this thread.
Motorized bicycle / moped is a very specific class in CVC 406 (a)

There is a class for scooters as in gopeds too which are street legal.

Go to HB or Newport Beach and you will know why we are getting the plate.

Why do you think there is an M2 class license?
you are playing silly word games and you will lose the game if you
play them with a cop and/ or a judge.

I can quote all the codes but no time as I am off to the race at
Willow Springs.

 

[kb18951452]

I have read the code.
406 states that a "Motorized Bicyckle" or 'Moped" is defined as, having pedals, 2 or 3 wheels, a motor under a certain limit AND automatic transmission. The devices am reading about mostly on this site (And i have yet to find one that sint in this catergory) do NOT have automatic transmissions, and as such, do not qualify as a moped, because of that lack.

They "Might" be categorized as a "Motor Driven Cycle" since they fir the definition of a motorcycle (2 or 3 wheels and a seat, thats all you need for it to be one), and the motor size is under 150cc.
If, however, you were to have a place to stand up on the device, it would fall squarly into the Motor Scooter category, meaning it is not regulated. The problem is, that the definition of "Motorcycle" is soooooo broad, that its a catch all, then they sub divide it down from this large amas of 2 or 3 wheeled vehicles.

And regardless of wat the officers SAY, its what the BOOKS say that matters.

 

[kb18951452]

I'm not talking about word games. I am talking about the legal definition. I'm a Legal Analyst. This is what i do for a living, Read the law, REALLY CLOSE, and find out EXACTLY what it does and does NOT say.

When your infront of a judge, if you can make your point, and the law is on your side, especially when it is specifically defined, then you will win your case. This may not keep you from getting a ticket, it may not keep you from getting your device empounded, but it will keep you in the clear, and at no financial obligations. And even in the case where the court finds against you, you'll certainly have grounds for appeal because the laws are very specific.

I believe that if you have a platform to stand on, you can turn your device into a "scooter", but as i read it currently, i think it would be under the category of "Motor Driven cycle"

 

[ocscully]

I have read the code.
406 states that a "Motorized Bicyckle" or 'Moped" is defined as, having pedals, 2 or 3 wheels, a motor under a certain limit AND automatic transmission. The devices am reading about mostly on this site (And i have yet to find one that sint in this catergory) do NOT have automatic transmissions, and as such, do not qualify as a moped, because of that lack.

They "Might" be categorized as a "Motor Driven Cycle" since they fir the definition of a motorcycle (2 or 3 wheels and a seat, thats all you need for it to be one), and the motor size is under 150cc.
If, however, you were to have a place to stand up on the device, it would fall squarly into the Motor Scooter category, meaning it is not regulated. The problem is, that the definition of "Motorcycle" is soooooo broad, that its a catch all, then they sub divide it down from this large amas of 2 or 3 wheeled vehicles.

And regardless of wat the officers SAY, its what the BOOKS say that matters.

I invite you to please come to Newport beach and ride your motorized bike or what ever you wish to call it without the Plate and no M1 or M2 endorsement on your license. Then once you are stopped and given your ticket for all of the areas where you are not in compliance with the VC you can go to Harbor Court and argue your case. With Luck you will convince all of those in authority here that you are Right and They Know Not What they Speak. Be aware that if you lose and even if you are lucky enough to have everything written up or reduced to fix-it tickets they will cost you $35.00 -$50.00 for each violation. If you ride in Newport Beach without the outward signs of being in compliance (plate, DOT helmet, left side mirror) you will be stopped by police and issued citations for each and every one of those mentioned violations and should you also not have a valid DL license. There is a good chance they will Impound your bike. Please come and be our test case maybe you will have more success in correcting all of the wrongs inflicted on us by the Police and the Harbor Court.

ocscully

 

[kb18951452]

I am saying,
If they are citing you for violations of 406, You can argue that that law doesn't apply to your device, and move for dismissal because there was no violation. To be charged with a crime, the crime commited must be cited.

My friend is a District Attorney and lost a case when, upon resting his case, the defense stood up and said that He prosecutor had failed to prove that his client lived in the jurisdiction of the court, and as such, the prosecution had not proven his case. Guess what? Case Dismissed.

You CAN defend yourself in court. I highly recommend it. Make the officers prove their case. Make them define your vehicle. If they improperly identify it, then youll have ground for dismissal because the requirements of the law were not met. Whatever the case, you should be in compliance with the law. If there is no law, there is no violation. Put a platform for standing on your bike, and it will fit under the motorized scooter category.

Personally, i think the risk here might be, that a motorize scooter is defined in such a way as to be summarized as, ""Has handlebars, and does not fall under any above category". The problem is, Technically speaking, any scooter with a seat aswell as a platform is a covered by one of the "above" categories. Does anyone have the document being used by the police in your area?

 

[rustycase]

Scully sure has a nice way of resolving this impediment !

It's all about power, illicit authority, and a tax grab.

The tx collectors in some areas have been advised not to deliver citations to folks travelling on their MABs, others, well, they are just going for the money grab.

IMO EVERYONE should contest a citation by asking for their day in court.
Problem is, it gets expensive.

I think I'll write a letter to our new governor.
It might help.

and then I'll ride on over to the wisky springs where they have cigarette trees and a beer fountain and pizza you can pick right off the bush next to the nacho cheese pool with floating kayaks filled with dipping chips.

Sry, its all politics.

rc

 

[fatdaddy]

Things must be different down south. Here in the bay area I have been riding for about 4 months and never been hassled. (knock on wood) I have ridden right past cops from San Jose, Santa Clara, Mountain View, and Palo Alto. Never once have they given me a second look. I am not sure if they figure that the lights, mirror, and DOT helmet make me legit.

Same goes for me in San Jo, As long as I'm wearing a helmet and not gettin stupid the cops pretty much leave me alone.
fatdaddy.

 

[Wm Holden]

I feel kinda blessed to live on the West Side... The cops attitude about us is, "Wear a helmet & ride safe, & we don't care!"

(knock on wood! )

same with ventura

 

[alienboy366]

john, yeah, it takes about 6 weeks. i xerox the form and the check before i send it in and ride around with that. technically, like a car, if the registration's pending, it's still legal to drive. but if you have proof, even if it's a copy of the paperwork, that's a lot better than saying "but officer, i mailed it in yesterday..."

hello, i'm in irvine, wonder where you got your grubee motor

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

I will reread this thread but what does this mean?
I'm not wishing to argue but DMV told me I didn't need to do anything and showed me something like that in the Motorcycle hand book. The Above is out of the CHP link.

Motor driven cycle is different from motor bicycle right?

What am I missing? Are motorized bicycles not bicycles and they are motor driven cycles?

Maybe I need it spelled out or I need to sleep...

406 (b) is ONLY for ebikes with pedals

406 (a) is for gas powered Motorized Bicycles.

DMV drones know not much about our bikes and you
obviously have not read this thread. GET SOME SLEEP
and try again tomorrow!

Motor driven cycles are different from motorized bicycles.

Motor driven cycles have DOT approved parts which is very
expensive to do for a manufacturer and a real VIN #

The Motorcycle hand book on page 3 quite clearly defines
motorized bicycles under License Requirements and Class M2.
You and the DMV drone flunk a very basic comprehension test.

Class M2---You may operate any motorized bicycle,
moped or a bicycle with an attached motor or a motorized
scooter.

PS: A motorized scooter is a Goped type vehicle.

 

[fatdaddy]

You really gotta SHOW most people, Not just tell them. So here it is.
DMV sec. 12804.9 (J) (5) (i). M-2 required.
Please read this. If there is a section and a code, It's a LAW.
Also see DMV sec. 5036 and 5037. special plate required.
Thanks,
fatdaddy.

 

[rustycase]

Well, we popped up in another post... there folks were referred to Bairdco's great, straight - forward presentation on his encounter with the tax collector.

I haven't read the cites fatdaddy presented in the prior post... wish he would have quoted them in his cite... so I guess I should find where the dmv garbage is on the net and read it for a minute or so...

Basically, I DON'T CARE what the DMV has to say about the matter.
I don't think it is there business to regulate me when I have a need to travel while conducting my own personal and private affairs.

Gubment is here to SERVE us! We must not allow them to regulate us to the level of some third world nation.

We must take action and get this matter before the court system and do what it takes (an awful lot of legal research!) to get this power grab by the department thrown out. They do not have the legitimate authority to do this!

...all valid authority comes from the people...
At this time, when the people need to transport themselves using something besides a 4x4 suv with a big block, these little china motors are quite handy on a bicycle.

I can understand regulation of speed.
If someone jeopardizes the safety of others within a township by exceeding the safe operation of their transport, well, they should be invited to visit with the court system, who is our representative.

Helmets?
Nunna their bidness!
There are indeed some who would have us ALL outfitted like the osha cowboy even within our own homes, not to mention when we step onto the sidewalk, or beyond. Then we would be able to accomplish NOTHING!

Once again I would like to thank those who have well expressed statutes and bureaucratic edicts, and the efforts of those who earn a living by imposing them upon us who LIVE here. None of that means we must ACCEPT it.

Go to the court when summoned.
Plead your case.
If it's not tossed out, learn why not.
Pursue the matter!

Best
rc

 

[GearNut]

Well, we popped up in another post... there folks were referred to Bairdco's great, straight - forward presentation on his encounter with the tax collector.
rc

That was me.


I totally agree with everything you said here, rc!

 

[fatdaddy]

Well, we popped up in another post... there folks were referred to Bairdco's great, straight - forward presentation on his encounter with the tax collector.

I haven't read the cites fatdaddy presented in the prior post... wish he would have quoted them in his cite... so I guess I should find where the dmv garbage is on the net and read it for a minute or so...

Basically, I DON'T CARE what the DMV has to say about the matter.
I don't think it is there business to regulate me when I have a need to travel while conducting my own personal and private affairs.

Gubment is here to SERVE us! We must not allow them to regulate us to the level of some third world nation.

We must take action and get this matter before the court system and do what it takes (an awful lot of legal research!) to get this power grab by the department thrown out. They do not have the legitimate authority to do this!

...all valid authority comes from the people...
At this time, when the people need to transport themselves using something besides a 4x4 suv with a big block, these little china motors are quite handy on a bicycle.

I can understand regulation of speed.
If someone jeopardizes the safety of others within a township by exceeding the safe operation of their transport, well, they should be invited to visit with the court system, who is our representative.

Helmets?
Nunna their bidness!
There are indeed some who would have us ALL outfitted like the osha cowboy even within our own homes, not to mention when we step onto the sidewalk, or beyond. Then we would be able to accomplish NOTHING!

Once again I would like to thank those who have well expressed statutes and bureaucratic edicts, and the efforts of those who earn a living by imposing them upon us who LIVE here. None of that means we must ACCEPT it.

Go to the court when summoned.
Plead your case.
If it's not tossed out, learn why not.
Pursue the matter!

Best
rc

I type real slow so, Sorry, I'm not gonna spend 20 mins. typing when all ya gotta do is Google DMV and click, click, scroll.
Thanks,
fatdaddy.

 

[rustycase]

Ok Fatdaddy, I'll do it...

Lol gearnut...
It would be good if some of us could discuss a game plan to makes some beneficial changes in attitudes and edicts...
Way back when, I was spurred into action by dire necessity. It was a crisis!

One thing led to another and I ended up studying law for most of 5 years running into 7... Had my own little business and I was able to pull it off.

Basically, the more I studied, the more respect I learned for the law.
Double edged sword, though... the less respect I had for edicts of the lower minions. It's always best when folks just try to get along.

Now that I'm old and infirm, got more than a few loose screws and can't recall what my other problems are, at the moment, I don't think I'll be able to pick up the torch and run with it again. even though I am unable to pay all the taxes and fees demanded to get my carcass from A to B !

Best
rc

 

[rustycase]

Well I apologize then.
Certainly do not mean to hijack anyone's thread talking abt the law.
...but thanks, I panhandle down at the fwy offramp.
rc

 

[Ernst]

I'm going back again to dmv but what about the automatic clutch clause?

I don't have an automatic clutch so where do I read about motor bikes w/out?

picky I know but it does seem to specify automatic clutch for being a moped or did I mistake the wording?

 

[GearNut]

It says an automatic transmission. Nothing in there about a manual clutch. Nothing in there about an automatic clutch either. I will "stick to my guns" on that one. My engine has only one gear, one speed, so that constitutes as an automatic transmission. It automatically stays in that gear.
The clutch is for starting the engine and used when stopping the bike and I want the engine to continue idling, ect.

 

[Ernst]

I'm going in tomorrow and one way or the other I will get right.

I like the idea of not being busted and dealing with an impound of my ride.
A moped plate will get me fast food at 1am. Would make the bike cooler but I would be the first of over 20 local MaBs to have a plate.