The Epic an electric tri car.

GoldenMotor.com

fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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Got a lot done today and didn't stop for photos. All kinds of creative staring and even more creative muttering. Welded the mount in where the bike attaches to the tongue and measured where the tongue will be welded to the front axle and cut the struts that go from the tongue to the front axle near the spindles to brace the front axle so it can't wobble back and forth.

Lost of welding tomorrow if the weather is good.

Steve.
 
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fasteddy

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Have it all welded up. Tomorrow I'll grind the welds up and make pretty and add the tube that will enclose the steering from the handle bars to the pitman arm for the steering. The arms on the spindle will have to be cut off and new ones welded on so the Ackerman Steering Angle can be figured in. This is the angle that the steering arms must be for the steering to work properly.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...ing_geometry&usg=AOvVaw2g65G6q_16hzU4JfldZtnQ

Once the frame is welded together I'll store it inside and work on it through the winter as the parts come in. I have the front hubs on the way and I'll get the wheels laced into them right away. Still working out what the the battery box will look like.

Steve.

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fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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Got the tubing for the steering welded to the bottom bearing cup first thing today. The steering tube will be inside this with the regular bike bearings on top and a sealed bearing on the bottom. This way I don't have to weld to the head tube.

Then I looked at the mount for the bike to the tongue and boys that's when the day went bad faster than a greased eel over a waterfall. I cut the tubing I was going to weld the bike to off and then spent the rest of the day trying to figure out what to do next. Just as I was ready to weld a replacement on the sun was going down and saved me. I'll get photos tomorrow of what I came up with.

One major problem with the Monark frame is that there are no straight tubes to work with when it comes up to measuring and making sure the frame is level. Everything has a curved surface except the seat tube. I'll put an angle finder on the sidecar Monark and work with that to find out where the bike should be mounted to the front end.

Steve.
 
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fasteddy

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Far more measuring and leveling today than I'd planned for. It took a lot longer to get everything squared and level but it all came together at last and I got a lot of it welded. The poor old frame had a hard life and I wasn't sure just where to square it off on the frame. Finally I went to the bottom bracket figuring it was where the factory put it and it was straight.

When I was restoring the other Monark there was a lot of information on one of the vintage bike sites about what to look for when buying a Monark frame. It seems they had design flaws that showed up if the bike was treated roughly by the little Heathens riding them. Sure, build a boys bike and plan for it to be used lightly. Brilliant planning.

The new mount for the bike to the front end is coming along really well. I would have finished it if I hadn't run out of welding wire. Had a plan to go to our version of Harbour Freight tomorrow morning so I'll load up with wire while I'm there.

Steve.
 

fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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A day full of success. Got what I needed at the store and got home in time to weld up the rest of the bike. If tomorrow is a decent day I plan to get the steering that came with the axle modified to match what I built. The steering arms are almost in line with the center of the rear axle to match the Akerman steering but need to be inboard about an 1-1/2" on each side to be perfectly in line. With someone sitting in the chair on the front the steering alignment becomes critical.

I decided to make the frame separate from the front end of the bike so the whole tri car can be broken down into the seat, the front end and the bike in case it needs to be moved in something other that the cargo trailer I have. The Indian tri car is built the same way.

Steve.

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fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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Got the rest of the welding I wanted to do, done. There is still more to do but the basic bike is ready. Cold weather is closing in but I'll be back outside welding up the last bits as the cold and rain allow. Battery box and the steering I will do inside and have photos as I go along.
It will be a few days before I have photos again since the shop needs a major clean up once more or at least the paths widened.

The Akerman worked out to be close enough to be good. In some of the photos you will see a green string {I hope} running from the rear of the bike to the spindles on the front axle. This is how I checked the Akerman angle which allows the steering to work properly. Basically there is a point in the middle of the rear axle that an imaginary line runs from to the middle of the spindles. The steering arms have to follow this angle to allow one of the front wheels to turn in a larger radius than the wheel on the inside of the turning circle which turns in a smaller radius. This is called the Akerman principal or theory.

I welded two supports on the steering tube. In their former life they were the jack crank handle for a much loved Toyota that the family had a few years ago. It was on it's way to the trash before I retrieved it and added it to the metal stash.

To hold the spindles straight I used a couple of blocks of wood and clamps as well as a piece of angle iron.

Right now The Epic frame has cost me $150 Canadian.

Steve.

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fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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I'll be back with more photos in a few days. I've been cleaning up the shop for a few days and there's more to do and yes it really was that bad. There was a really narrow choice to be made. Either stop and clean it up or at least make the paths wider.

Steve.
 
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fasteddy

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Garage clean up is done. Made one wonderful discovery while I was at it though. The garage floor, not to mention numerous other "I don't remember that." gifts. I got the Curry mid motor out of it's box and found out its a 650-1680W motor. Plenty of Power for the tri car which I don't think of as a high speed vehicle but more of a slow cruiser. Another benefit is it has the early motor mount that clamps on the seat tube instead of being being under the down tube and attached to the bottom bracket.

The mount looks to be pretty substantial and I'll put it all together in a couple of days to see how it looks and decide if I want to copy it in steel and not aluminum for a more vintage look or if I can to put it behind a chain guard to cover it which may be more practical.

Here is what the motor, controller and pedal parts are like. I bought the kit years ago from Sick Bike Parts who have an ad on the top of the page. Look at the electric shifter kit. They now sell the 3,000W kit.

Steve.

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fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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Restarted the electric tri car build here so it's easier to follow separate from the Indian tri car.

The lower top tube is going to have to be removed to be able to make a faux engine for the bike. Other wise the cylinders are going to be 3-1/2" tall with an added 1-1/2" for the head height the rest is taken up by the spark plug.

Going with a 6" crank case only added an 1" of height. Tried a V twin but there isn't any difference. Back at it tomorrow after the hospital appointment.

Steve
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Steve my cylinder height without head is 6.5" plus head 8.5"...add plug height to that for your purposes. I went with 10 cooling fins separated by .25"...each fin 1/8" thick. I'm not including the valve train height of my motor but it adds about 2" minimum.

Your right going V doesn't help as much a you'd think, at the Harley angle, but would if one widened the V. Or "leaned" a single.

There is no magic in these numbers, just what I'm doing for reference. I used 3" tube and the fins are 5" diameter. I would think my motor would look just as good using 12 ga, or even 14 ga. sheet rather than10 ga. (1/8") with 3/16" separation (rather than .25") and an inch less tube height and eight fins rather than ten.

6" or 7" diameter base crank case you need add at least an inch to the diameter for cylinder base plate flat. Both tube diameter and fin width could be a little smaller....just kept in proportion.

Just numbers to play with before cutting the bar, which may still be necessary.

I'm liking my motor case, but my ideal crank case width would be 3.5" to 4" wide...mine is 5" not including side housings.
The early total loss case motors were really skinny. A really short length, wide diameter motor would be necessary for a thin crank case.

Rick C.
 

fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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Hi Rick,
Just resting from the tests. They gave me the wrong day to show up but then they combined two visits into one 5 hour session.

I'll get back to the tri car tomorrow and get some photos of the cardboard cut out to show what I'm doing. I think it will balance out if I put the fins down the cylinder next to the crank case. I've seen some of the older ones that were built like that.

One of the motorcycle museums had a video of them unloading a 1908 Indian single motorcycle and then they picked up a spare motor from the pick up truck bed and I was surprised how narrow the crankcase was compared to the fins.
I do have some 2" tubing but I don't know how the visuals would be if is used. Smaller fins maybe? The outside diameter of the head is 4-5/8". Not a lot off the 5" fin.

Steve.
 

fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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Thank's Tom. Waiting for some decent weather again to push the Indian tri car out and get it started. Rain for a little bit more and then it should warm up and we'll get more sunny days.

I don't think these photos are trapped in Photo Casket. They had already worked me over and I added these to the forum.

Steve.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Yeah Steve the skinny crankcase is why I gave up on using a modern I.C. V-twin engine to power a vintage board track style bike, they're all four to five times too wide in the basic crank case width and they aren't round in profile. There are some Briggs, Kohler etc. tribute build s that are great looking moto cycles, but put them side by side with frames running the real deal motors and there's a huge visual dis-connect.

Fin diameter is just proportional to the rest of the motor. Fin's to the base not a problem, nor was tapering fin diameter from head to base plate. High exhaust port or low. V angles varied as did single cylinder verticality. Intake front, back or side location on singles. Early engines varied greatly and innovation was the order of the day. So in a non-specific tribute build one can just let their imagination and creativity fly.

Pipe or tube sizes can be used, diameter not super obvious to most observers standing, but kneeling or from 15' away standing; it's noticeable. Thicker fin material and closer spacing would help. I would notice 2" & just think small displacement motor, again not a big deal. I used 3" diameter drive shaft cut offs that's thin wall, light and much stronger than was required and I had it. There's a lot of scrape .tube out there wherever there is, and fin plates can be cut to suit whatever diameter tube is used. Pipe sizes are pretty heavy compared to tube but plumbing material could be employed as could exhaust pipe. It's all strong enough, but some are easier to weld with basic home welders.

I stitched the fins in place, to avoid warp and keep the pace up while building the cylinder fin stack. Weld clean up and repeat till finished. Three one inch run's per fin with 70,000 lb. wire. You can't make them ring with a ball peen!

Get to feeling better.

Rick C.
 

fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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Hi Rick,
Called in for another test at the hospital this morning so I didn't get anything done today. If I remember correctly the motor is 4" or 4-1/2" long, body only.

What I'm thinking of trying is cutting 1/4" or 3/16" rings off what ever tubing I use and spitting them so I can heat them up and expand them to fit over the tubing and use them as spacers for the fins. Then I'll tack weld the now expanded cut in the ring to hold it in place. A small hole drilled in the fin above it would then be welded shut aligned with the weld closing off the cut in the ring below it. Then the next ring would fit over the cylinder with the cut lined up with the weld in the fin below it so the weld wouldn't interfere with the ring sitting properly and that will be welded and the next fin welded to that.

May have to drill a hole opposite the weld on the ring so it can be welded in place to balance out the heat warp.

I just ordered a long overdue small air powered hand held belt sander. This should make sanding the fins easier.

As always thought about how this will work.

Steve.