Something new and kinda sorta 100 years old looking

Discussion in 'Motorized Cruiser Bicycles' started by fishguts, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. happycheapskate

    happycheapskate New Member

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    Is the carburetor for looks or oil distribution, or just a place to mount a filter for air? I don't understand, yes I'm scratching my head.

    What kind of carb is it, and could it work on a gas 50cc happytime?
     
  2. fishguts

    fishguts New Member

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    I doubt it would be much good on a 50cc since it came off a 25cc chainsaw. Someone on here suggested it when I was pondering how to distribute oil to the crankcase. It has adjustable jets so, theoretically, I can crank them open and it will spray oil into the case. This means oily vapor will exhaust with the spent steam, but I don't know yet if that will amount to enough to be concerned about. Alternately, I have a fill plug in the top of the case and a drain plug in the bottom so I can run a wet crank. I actually plan to do both at first because I'm not sure the carb oiler will work at all. If it does, I can rely on it more than keeping oil in the case. This is purely experimental - possibly the first two-stroke with oil reserve in the case. Steam engines are known for blowing water past the rings, so I expect water to be in there, too. That's why the drain plug has a bleeder in it, allowing me to drain water off.
     
  3. fishguts

    fishguts New Member

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    Seat is done.
    Motor is done.
    On to the water tank. I put a couple lug nuts in each side of the tank and shook the bajeebies out of it to break up any residual "webbing" left by the epoxy casting process. Plenty came out. I flushed the tanks, too. I expect that I'll be fishing epoxy bits out of the tank and lines for a while. Then I flipped it over and drilled for the water line bungs, cut, fitted and filed the bungs to get them in shape for the JB Weld and then gooshed them up. Poor photo because my camera battery was on it's last leg.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    As far as residue from the tank just run a filter,maybe one of the glass settleing bowl filters from NAPA
     
  5. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    or dump a handfull of nuts or a length of chain in there and shake it around for awhile to dislodge any loose crap.
     
  6. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    Ifn yer interested - it's part # 7-02350 fer like $11 er so...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. happycheapskate

    happycheapskate New Member

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    I don't think you will be able to keep much oil or water in the crankcase, even if the engine is run at a very low RPM. It is a 2 stroke, so the passing of vapor from the bottom up through the top will blow it out of the engine.
    Since its not ICE, though, you can't really "flood" it, so I guess it won't hurt, just might make a leaky mess.

    Best of luck, I think this is really cool. What will you use for oil? You can get 5gallon buckets of hydraulic oil or gear oil from tractor farming stores. Maybe something made for irrigation lines might work.
     
  8. fishguts

    fishguts New Member

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    See post above - did that.



    Perfect! It would look cool, too. I'll hit NAPA today.




    Well, I'm thinking oil sitting in the crankcase won't vaporize, that it will mostly just splash around. Also, if I go without the oil injector carb, I'll put a plate over the intake and that should eliminate any air turbulence in the crankcase. I'm starting to think that's going to be the way to go anyway.

    I know what you're saying about hydraulic oil ... it would have to be pretty thin to run through a carb.



    THANK YOU for the suggestions everybody - it really helps to have the input with a project as outside the box as this. More heads are better than one, especially since this one isn't firing on all cylinders. Actually, come to think of it, there's only one cylinder and it doesn't fire at all!
     
    #268 fishguts, Feb 26, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  9. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    whoops, didn't notice that...

    so c'mon, when are you gonna fire this thing up?!! (you can take that literally, too...:))
     
  10. fishguts

    fishguts New Member

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    Yeah I know what you mean - it's driving me nuts, too (short drive for me). If I didn't have mobility issues I would have dug out my air compressor and tried to run the motor on that just to test it out. But as it is, it looks like the first run will be with "fire in the hole".

    Maybe I shouldn't use that term ...

    If the welding gods are smiling on me today, I should be ready to mount the boiler. That will be a big step forward. Or backward, whatever the case may be. :-||
     
  11. fishguts

    fishguts New Member

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    Water tank is done.
    I filed/sanded the JB Weld around the water line bungs and then pfffft pfffft, threw on some paint. I drilled simple 1/8" holes in the center of the caps for vents. I'm not too worried about rain water getting in.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    I hate to say it ,but I think your right.The case "can't have oil in the case",there is "no clearance"(place for the oil to reside in any volume),the connecting rod will hit the oil every time around throwing it up and through the intake ports,
    The oil for lubing will draw from the carburator beacause the motor is doing everything it does normaly(still has an intake stroke w/working ports) except the power will be supplied by a burst of steam when the piston reaches the top,So the lower drain for acumilating steam blow-by(condenced Water) may be all that is needed drain when stopping the motor for a period of time maybe w/a catch cup below it(might be a oiley water residue like the inside if a ford dipstick tube)
    ^^^^^^^^xct2
     
  13. Ted

    Ted New Member

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    I wish I could understand better how the engine is going to work, it seems to me that there's going to be some real problems with function BUT I'[m also sure that you have done a lot of research, in any case you might need this type of oil.
    Green Velvet Steam Cylinder Oil Information and Pricing
     
  14. fishguts

    fishguts New Member

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    Well ... who knows for sure what will work until it is running.

    I decided to try the wet crank approach first and see how it goes. There isn't a lot of room in the case for oil except between the counterweights, but that's where the rod journal is anyway. I expect it to splash into the oil, throwing some up under the piston and lubing the wrist pin bearings.

    I cut a piece out of an old clutch cover for a plate and capped off the intake port. Also drilled a 1/8" hole in the oil fill plug to relieve crankcase pressure. I don't expect oil to splash out because the fill plug is directly over the left counterweight which should be running smooth and not flinging oil. We'll see.

    There is that narrow gap where the piston usually sucks in air from the intake/crankcase on the back side of the cylinder. I assume some oil will find it's way into the cylinder there. That could be good, actually.

    As for the suggestion of running steam oil - I thought about that, but with a wet crank, I don't think I'll need it. Normal steam engines don't have closed crankcases. There's no reason for it. Oil cups or zerts are on the bearing castings. Of course, in this situation, I'm converting a 2-stroke motor, so I need to adapt to the situation. I plan to run just enough oil to cover the crank bearings.

    As far as research into this, I've looked far and wide. There are examples of converted 2-strokes (see Youtube) used as steam engines, but most are actually running off compressed air and those that run steam are "experimental" and nothing is said about oil for the crank. The mechanism that operates the inlet of steam is called a "slam valve". I used a valve tappet sitting on top of the piston as an actuator. I like the flat broad surface of the tappet face on the piston. Other slam valve motors I've seen just run a rod on top of the piston. It appears to me this would eventually tap a nice hole into the piston. The other end of the tappet goes through the brass pipe in the head and into the bottom of a reversed ball check valve. When the piston comes up, the check valve ball is pushed up and steam enters, pushing the piston down. The steam is exhausted at the bottom of the stroke like exhaust gas from a 2-stroke and the cycle repeats. I've seen motors with this same design running right along in Youtube clips, so it should work. With 100psi of steam, there should be plenty of power. I don't know how well that power will translate to the rear wheel, but if it's enough to make the bike putt along I'll be more than happy.


    [​IMG]
     
    #274 fishguts, Feb 26, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  15. fishguts

    fishguts New Member

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    Froze my little toes off welding up some luggage racks. Wish I was still in FL. Snow coming tonight, but if it isn't too bad, I'll weld the racks to the frame and make some other adjustments tomorrow and that will basically finish the frame. There will be some brackets to add later.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. happycheapskate

    happycheapskate New Member

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    If there is a hole, even 1/8", to relieve crankcase pressure, it is actually a leak that steam may come out of quite strongly at operating pressure (trying to move the bike). It may result in burns on the legs, or oily residue on the bike.

    If you try it out and it looks to be a problem, you can just replace the cap, but that might be an issue.

    This is fun! I like how you let people interact without getting upset by us bench racing here.
     
  17. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    I agree again the crank case has to breathe beacause of the blow by of the rings,old cars had a breather tube that came from the top of the motor and went down toward the road along with a oil filler cap that was an air breather also.
    I remember some kids rebuilt a 283 or327 chevy and brought it to the station wanting to know why oil was comming out all the gaskets,,it had new crome valve covers and one of the new solid oil caps,no place for air to escape at all ,all that blow-by from the new rings had no where to go but out the weakest points,the gaskets.
    maybe a tall 1 inch tube(6-8 inches tall) comming from the original air intake manifold hole and filled with staniless steel scrubber pads and a screen accross the bottom at the motor to keep the pads inside with a loope over tube going down past the motor toward the ground to keep the hot blow by steam off the rider
     
  18. fishguts

    fishguts New Member

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    hmmm ... all good suggestions. Hate to have steam shooting straight up from that hole in the filler plug!! ahem.

    So, how much blow-by is there with these engines? I was assuming essentially none. If there is some, I would assume the rings need replaced. I know tiny amounts of steam can potentially leak past and cause water to collect in the case, but was hoping it would be so little it might not amount to anything. My reason for venting the plug is to relieve pressure when the piston comes down and vacuum when it goes up. I do know from working on hot rods over the years that a crankcase needs to be vented (generally through the heads/valve covers, but on my older Chevys it was through a tube from the front of the block/intake manifold - same as with a VW Bug motor, actually). I've never seen noticable amounts of blow-by gasses coming through such vents, even when I was seating a new set of rings, but then, the rings in car engine are of much better quality than these 2-strokes. I can replace the plug easy enough. I like the idea of a vent tube running from the intake cover plate and having a filter/screen. Would be kinda like my old '56. Just fix a small filter to the end of the stock intake tube.
     
    #278 fishguts, Feb 27, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  19. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    Just a note on oil. Around here the loging skiders use ATF insted of hydrolic oil,some of the finest oil you can get, and don't have to wait for warmup. You can buy it in gallon jugs at farm supply stores

    You can also get the small sediment bulbs from garden tractors, and a lot of other garden equipment ( e-bay ). My penney's worth......Curt
     
  20. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    I don't think its so much how much they leak as it is when they leak(and they do/will) at 100 lb pressure pushing past the rings,and then the return pressure back the other way is less pressure and the so pressure builds in the crankcase like an air-compressor starting up,,,,,the larger the breathing vent/tube the less the oil is forced out by the pressure through a small opening,it has space to run back into the engine as air passes out rather than be squirted out like a fire hose,
     

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