Ouch. Sucks for him...

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by jrol22, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. jrol22

    jrol22 New Member

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    Well, While trying to figure out my clutch problem, which I still cant seem to find the fix to, I ran across this page:

    http://www.grandpappy.info/hmoped.htm

    Kinda found it unfair. But he does have some good points when it comes to drivers thinking its just a normal bicycle.

    What are your thoughts on it?
     
  2. Skarrd

    Skarrd Member

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    he does have a few (and i stress that) good points.

    however, he's basing it on his 10 minute ride, with a improperly tuned engine, and treating it like a full on motorcycle.


    he mentions alot about the clutch lever and the brake lever being an annoyance claiming that "If you need to apply the brakes then you also need to pull in the clutch. If you don't pull in the clutch then the engine keeps working against you pulling you forward while you are trying to stop the bicycle with the brakes."

    this is only true, if you are still giving it throttle. otherwise, you are using both friction and engine braking.

    he also states 'The front and rear brakes on a bicycle are designed to stop the bicycle at normal riding speeds, which for most of us is ten or twelve miles per hour or maybe slower.'

    He's right, the rim brakes are not designed to work at those speeds. I say it's his fault for expecting them to.

    While he makes a valid point about the choke being a pain to work while riding, if the engine was jetted correctly you really shouldn't need much choke at all to start it.

    He goes on to talk about how the traffic in his area makes it unsafe and dangerous to ride a motorized bike due to '...the motorist doesn't understand is that you are traveling at 20 to 30 miles an hour and not 5 or 10 miles per hour.'
    and
    'Motorists traveling on the road in the same direction you are traveling will become impatient driving behind you and some of them will pass so close to you that they actually force you off the road as they turn back into your lane.'

    Obviously i don't feel this guy knows what it's truely like to ride a bicycle. Regardless of your speed, traffic will simply act like you are not there. therefore he should have expected that traffic will behave like so.


    Again he seems to be basing this off his 10 minute ride where he expected it to be like a motorcycle.

    just my $.02 on his article.
     
  3. DaveC

    DaveC Member

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    I wonder just what kind of "accedent" he had...I'm thinking he did something stupid and blames it on the bike. The brake problem is easily solved with a dual pull brake lever, readily avalible.

    6 months later he writes about it; scared him that bad. 10 minutes on a motorized bike is not long enough time to make any judgement. Just 'cause he couldn't deal with it doesn't make them "dangerous" anymore than riding a bike or a motorcycle.
     
  4. Len455

    Len455 New Member

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    I strongly disagree. All of the mechanical issues can be easily solved with a resource such as this forum. In arizona i belive that they are just as safe as a road bicycle. They go at the same speed brake about the same and drivers are fairly decent around us. plus 75 percent of phoenix has a bike lane.
    I understand that he has his own opinion and i respect that i just wish he wasnt so jaded and would give it another go.
    But thats just my opinion.

    Im still keeping mine...
    .shft.
     
  5. motor_bike_fanatic

    motor_bike_fanatic New Member

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    I didnt read the whole article, chiefly because I have a very low tolerance for stupidity and ignorance. But, there are ways around almost all the issues he mentions. Half the solutions are in aftermarket parts or finding what setup you are most comfortable with. The other half is in using the sense God gave you. The brake and clutch issue can be solved in more than one way. I dont even have a front brake. I have a coaster brake and a rear hand brake. And I also had an accident when I first started riding. I was getting ready to go through an intersection and a lady didnt see me behind her and proceeded to switch lanes and make a right hand turn without signaling. I walked away with minor injuries. Never once did it cross my mind to put my bike away and give up riding. I just had to learn how to ride more carefully. Just because you have experience riding motorcycles does not mean you are experienced with motorized bicycles. I am not saying that riding an MB is way harder than a motorcycle, in fact I have never ridden a motorcycle. But a motorized bicycle is operated very differently than a motorcycle. My final thoughts? This is some sort of publicity thing or something. When he said that installing a pull start is unsafe because you have to install a wider crank and its uncomfortable or too hard to get used to, I stopped reading. I have a wider crank from when I did have a pull start, and I personally found it more comfortable and easier to pedal. Everyone may not find that true, but it doesnt make it unsafe. Its called take your bike for a test ride before you take it out on the road, have the sense to get to know your bike before you use it a daily commuter, and use common sense and good judgment when out on the road. All the safety issues he pointed out are things he should have considered before he ever even THOUGHT about throwing a leg over the seat.
     
  6. fugit

    fugit New Member

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    I read it quickly as I got to go to bed ( will read it all later) but I think he makes a good point about speed reference from a vehicles perspective looking at the bike. I am glad I read that as it makes sense you cover more ground then someone might expect.

    Honestly, though I am not driving a drag bike or planning on jumping the fountain at Caesar's Palace and really just want to tool around on side roads and not pedal up hills :)
     
  7. Dave31

    Dave31 Moderator
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    he's just describing everything almost all of us have learned riding bicycles. and the same thing we all learned when we first motorized our bicycles.

    just sound like to me another who thought he was building a honda scooter...
     
  8. Skarrd

    Skarrd Member

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    i love how he tries to say he's an expert on this by saying "i have an unrestricted motorcycle license, meaning i can ride any size bike, and have owned them since i was 20 therefore i have 40 years of experience with motorcycles."

    that's all fine and dandy.. if you built a motorcycle.
    first mistake he made, assumed it would be like a motorcycle.
     
  9. AslansMonkey

    AslansMonkey Member

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    While I think he has some valid points, I think his years of motorcycle experience worked against him. Motorized bicycles are NOT motorcycles.

    When I built my first motorbike I expected it NOT to be safe. I remember I would only ride it up and down the street, never far from home, for weeks after first putting it together. This was because I KNEW I DIDN'T KNOW what could go wrong. Over time I learned what rattles lose or learned how to ride more safely.

    I never assume other traffic can see me, anyone who does, motorcyclist, bicyclist, motorbicyclist is just an accident waiting to happen. The first person looking out for your own safety should be YOU, not the other driver.

    Sometimes I learned things the hard way. Things broke or came lose when I was far from home and my tools. Luckily nothing catastrophic but those incidents also taught me. I carry basic tools now, for instance, and frequently inspect the bikes for loose parts. This is something you should do with EVERY bicycle, mind you, not just motorized ones.

    I still don't think motorized bicycles are safe. I don't think cars or regular bicucles are safe either. You can get in an accident or killed in any of them. I won't sell or even build a motorized bicycle for someone I don't think is capable of maintaining it or understanding the safety issues involved. But I currently have three of them and have let my kids (late teens) ride them for years, but ONLY after I was sure they understood some basic safety rules.

    I suppose I can understand this guys viewpoint, but I think the major problem with his motorbike is the rider.
     
  10. KCvale

    KCvale Active Member

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    Regarding [​IMG]

    What I found interesting was he had a serious accident in the first 10 minutes, yet throughout his 'report' he says he never got it to start, hence he wrecked it just pedaling and everything else is just conjecture as he has never even rode one under motor power.

    As for the picture of his bike it is labeled correctly, HIS build is neither safe or runs.
    Two levers and a mirror on the left? Duhhh, as mentioned above a good dual pull on the right fixes that.
    Speaking of brakes, the kits does NOT come with brake parts, they are the builders job.

    I blew his pic up to 900 pixels and still couldn't make out the motor sticker, but having an NT carb it is 2009 or earlier.
    Maybe a flying horse, maybe one of those no-name kits, but with no plate it's not a SKyhawk.

    I don't take his remarks as an assault on motorized bikes, to me he is just publicizing his poor mechanical skills and apparent inability to pedal a bicycle without having a serious accident hehehe ;-}
     
  11. Skarrd

    Skarrd Member

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    decided to send the guy an email

     
  12. Dirt Road Cowboy

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    Can anyone say, "moron?"

    Even he says:

    That is when you will decide to do a little internet research that a smart person would have done before beginning this project. On the internet you will discover that there are a multitude of design problems with these bike engines that you are going to have to fix yourself if you wish to have a working motorized bicycle.

    I have been riding motorcycles since I was 11 or 12, so I know a little about them too after nearly 40 years riding.

    I always switch the brake cables on bicycles. The front brake is on the right, just like a motorcycle. I do that because I always grab for the front brake with my right hand. Why couldn't he switch his?
    I have always switched them on my kid's bikes too. When they asked why I did that, I told them that they may want to ride a motorcycle some day, so they need to be in the habit of using the front brake properly.

    He also stated:

    The average motorist will not see the motor attached to your bicycle while you are riding in a straight line directly towards the motorist on a side street. The motorist will simply see a person on a bicycle and therefore believe he or she has plenty of time to pull out into traffic in front of you and that there is no possible way you could cover the distance from where you currently are and where the motorist is. What the motorist doesn't understand is that you are traveling at 20 to 30 miles an hour and not 5 or 10 miles per hour. Therefore the motorist will simply pull out in front of you and you will not be able to stop in time to avoid hitting the car that is now directly in front of you. One of your options will be to swerve off the road into an area where you can't safely steer and have a serious accident while the motorist continues on unharmed and unaware of your injuries or even your death.

    Anyone riding a motorcycle for any length of time learns that cagers just don't see you, and bicycles, motorized or not, are even harder for idiots to look for.

    I'm glad that he didn't get back on it. He may have ended up being another statistic against our freedom to ride these things. We are all responsible for our own safety, whether riding a motorized bike, or walking across the street.
    You can get killed doing either one.


    .
     
  13. Skarrd

    Skarrd Member

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    lol got an email back from the guy

    pretty much a big "**** you" from him.
     
  14. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Well, one good thing; he probably will never be a member here :)

    Tom
     
  15. Skarrd

    Skarrd Member

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    one thing we can all be glad about :)
     
  16. KCvale

    KCvale Active Member

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    (snickers)
     
  17. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    '' However, my close encounter with a permanent disabling injury, or maybe even death, caused me to put my "new motorized bicycle" in the garage until I had the time to objectively consider what had happened and why it happened.''

    Looks like a lot of drama for a so called '' 10 min. ride'', without the engine even running..LOL!

    I gotta call foul/BS on that write up, been on motorcycles for 40 years and can't pedal a bike down the road without having a potentially '' permanent disabling injury, or maybe even death,''..........!

    The fella does make a couple so so good points about brakes ect. but that ain't rocket science, I can tell him from my own experience that I'd rather wreck on one of my bikes doing 20-30 mph than on my 450lb motorcycle, ground will feel the same but Id much rather get tangled up in the 60lb bicycle than my 450lb motorcyle if I had to go down, I don't want to crash on either but I've had some fairly good spills on both when I was a kid.

    Give this guy an electric wheelchair, knee pads, elbow pads, a helmet, leather gloves and keep him on the sidewalk, He's way to paranoid to be on the street with a 2 wheeler of any kind in my opinion.

    (^)

    Peace, Map
     
  18. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    by using the technique known as "suspension of disbelief," i can totally agree with everything this guy says.

    i mean, pretending i've never built a bike before, and have very little knowledge of how a bicycle actually works, and going by the assumption that i actually believe what the kit instructions say, his entire condemnation makes sense.

    first mistake, doing absolutely no research beforehand.

    second mistake, buying a walmart cruiser with the expectations that this is a safe and reliable bike.

    third mistake, adding a motor to said bike.

    now, this isn't a dig on walmart bikes. i mean, not totally. but if you take a minute to look at the rest of the guy's website, which is full of survivalist paranoia, you can assume that he was hoping to build a reliable means of cheap, undocumented (as in, "under the radar") transportation for use after the zombie apocalypse, WW3, Commie takeover, or (insert doomday scenario here________.)

    so why the heck is he buying a bike from such an evil corporate entity such as walmart, and engine from the communist yellow devils?

    anyways...

    as a first time builder with no apparent mechanical skills or the ability to use google for information on motorized bikes (odd, coming from a guy with his own website, with chapters titled: "how to build a portable solar power generator" and "A comparison of 5 leading brands of toilet tissue,") i can relate to the problems he had.

    a simple 5 minute search would've discovered what the factory idle setting is (which doesn't matter anyway, based on elevation, fuel used, etc...) and every direction booklet i've seen states that these engines were designed for a "diamond frame" bicycle, and that modifications will be required to make it fit a cruiser. like exhaust mods, especially.

    after the planet of the apes takeover, it's highly unlikely you'll be able to take your pipe into a muffler shop to have someone else bend it for you. you should be self-sufficient enough to do it yourself in your reinforced underground bunker.

    the golden rule for the rapidly approaching "End Times," is ADAPT OR DIE.

    and seriously, do you really think you can get away from flesh eating mutants, packs of rabid dogs, radioactive storm clouds, goverment stormtroopers, or hostile aliens on a schwinn point beach cruiser with a two-smoker on it? you'll be easy pickin's when you don't know enough to get the thing started in one or two pedals, and when you finally do, your chain tensioner gets stuck in your spokes...

    if you really want a well-suited vehicle for the forbidden zone, steal an armored truck.
     
  19. KCvale

    KCvale Active Member

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    Oh man (hehehe), thanks for the laughs guys, I didn't delve into whatever else he's into but I did have to point out his 10 minutes without a motor and wrecking just pedaling, and then judging it all on that.

    To address two good points...

    1. ALWAYS ride with a bright flashing LED light on the front, especially during the day to be seen.

    2. If you have two lever brakes, put both cables to a dual pull on the right.

    And just to address everyone...
    Make sure you can pedal your bike around the block without falling over before you even attempt to put a motor on it ;-}
     
    #19 KCvale, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  20. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    since i can't sleep, i was looking into his website.

    here's some quotes while summing up a movie he saw in the 60's about a baby deer (http://www.grandpappy.info/hdeer.htm)

    "4.If you do not have any prior experience in a specific area then it would probably be wise to carefully consider the advice of someone who does have several years of experience in that area."


    "5.Advice from individuals who have no experience or very limited experience in an area is probably not as useful as advice from someone who has many years of experience in that area. It is interesting to note that a lot of people have very strong opinions about things in which they have absolutely no hands-on experience but who speak as if they were experts on that topic."
     

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