Ontario Bike Engine Owners

[Mopedamauter79]

Just wondering if anyone in Ontario with there bikes have had any run in with the local police. I did and I got a fine for no back brakes and no helmet. It was funny to as the cop was British and was like "where is your crash hat"

I tried to explain to the guy I was only out for test run and everything was not fully hooked up yet. Still gave me two $110 fines which I fought. What I did is that same day I went to Canadian tire and got the cheapest back brakes I could find and then a helmet that was comfortable to wear. The bike had the old U brake style brakes and I had not figured out how to get them to work right yet. The cheapo brakes where for show only.

After that I headed over to Wal Mart and got a light for the front that does not need batteries. You just crank it for 1 minute for 20minutes of light. I also got back light. I went to the ticket place in Ottawa and explain I was taking it out for a test run and that I had got the stuff I needed. I showed him the receipt and I got the fines reduced to a total of $40 all together and 90 days to pay.

 

[deacon]

Gee down here all I had to do was not run over anybody. I do wear a helmet with the gas bike. I don't even do that with the electric.

 

[Bikeguy Joe]

Wow, what a way to get started....

 

[toytime]

very odd that that was all he ticketed you for, seeing that it is a "motorized vehicle" but it sounds like you just got the green light. Just ride like a well mannered adult and obey the rules and you should be fine.

I still don't understand why but they seem to leave me alone. I do pretend to be peddling at all times and do the old kill the engine and peddle thing when I see them though. There are times that I come around a corner though and sort of get caught but I still kill the engine and peddle. After 8 months or so I now ride past the OPP and local police station and have yet to be bothered.
As for the helmet laws, they are for younger riders, I think 18 and under.
I think the cops are not sure of the laws any longer because of the changes with electric bikes. I know for sure that if it was a pocket bike, I'd be stopped within minutes.

 

[Mopedamauter79]

I still don;t take my chances if I see the cops ahead of time I kill the engine and just pedal till there out of range. Every cop is diff. Your going to have a cop that's having a bad day or wants to be a jerk.

 

[paul]

at least they reduced you fine a little. i always ride with a helmet. i use a regular bicycle helmet and don't even relize i have it on. kinda like a seatbelt you get used to it and its no big deal

 

[Mopedamauter79]

at least they reduced you fine a little. i always ride with a helmet. i use a regular bicycle helmet and don't even relize i have it on. kinda like a seatbelt you get used to it and its no big deal

That's all I use as well. I have a helmet that's comfortable and I sometimes forget I have it on.

 

[Mopedamauter79]

I'm bumping this up because my mom called me and told me someone in Kitchener where she is got fined $500 from a cop who decided he was gonna be a jerk. Told the guy he needed to insure it and that. I've been down that road. You cannot insure a mountain bike with a simple motor on it. The insurance companies need a make , model and year. You use the clutch handle and it becomes a bike.. It has a motor but at the end of the day it's still a fully functioning mountain bike. I would gladly insure it if possible.

I looked over the Mto site and these bikes neither fall into the E bike's or the moped's. It's in between and in a grey area of the road law. Has anyone heard anything new on the laws regarding these motor's ?

 

[Rockenstein]

I have heard no new news regarding bicycles with motors...doubt we will either because I'm sure the powers that be are hoping we are a short lived fad like the pocket bike thing was. I don't think there is enough of us either to have an impact on things with regards to new laws for us or against us. The e bike community managed to gather enough support and got the e bike pilot project thing happening here in Ontario but one odd thing is that for guys like us that would likely build an e bike from a bunch of parts we can purchase online we'd be in the same situation as we are in right now with the gas motors. Ontario's e bike pilot project does not include a power assisted bicycle that can't prove it meets federal standards, only e bikes that meet federal standards and have a sticker to prove it are included in the pilot project so says the MTO.

 

[toytime]

As soon as you put a gas engine on anything in Ontario, it's a 'motorized vehicle'. There are no grey areas.
On the other hand, if one were to have a certified moped already in your name, there are no laws stopping you from 'customizing' your bike. A cop once told me that this was how bikers in the sixties got away with chopper forks that were five feet long. It's sort of like a VW Bug with a Fiberglass body kit. It may look like an Italian sports car but the ownership will say VW.
By the time you got lights, signals , horn and all that needs to be done, it may not be worth the bother.

 

[Rockenstein]

As soon as you put a gas engine on anything in Ontario, it's a 'motorized vehicle'. There are no grey areas.

Yes the Ontario HTA pretty much has everything covered with this line...

"and any other vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power"

Where the confusion starts for everyone concerned is that if a bicycle, fitted with a motor of any kind, is technically still a bicycle which cannot be registered with the MTO what do you do? Even with the pilot project e bikes cannot be registered because the MTO says "For the duration of the pilot, electric bicycles will be treated as bicycles". So if you cannot register a powered bicycle of any kind with the MTO, buy insurance etc etc what repercussions do we face for using one? I called a couple lawyers a while back and they said it's highly unlikely any charges would get far given that registration, insurance and all that other good stuff is not readily available for a powered bicycle.

 

[Mopedamauter79]

Yes the Ontario HTA pretty much has everything covered with this line...

"and any other vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power"

Where the confusion starts for everyone concerned is that if a bicycle, fitted with a motor of any kind, is technically still a bicycle which cannot be registered with the MTO what do you do? Even with the pilot project e bikes cannot be registered because the MTO says "For the duration of the pilot, electric bicycles will be treated as bicycles". So if you cannot register a powered bicycle of any kind with the MTO, buy insurance etc etc what repercussions do we face for using one? I called a couple lawyers a while back and they said it's highly unlikely any charges would get far given that registration, insurance and all that other good stuff is not readily available for a powered bicycle.

Pretty much. You get a fine you simply fight it and say there is no means to register the bike and if there was you would obviously. The cops in Ottawa leave me alone as long as I have a helmet on I have no had one bother me. They generally don't care. As long as your not riping down the road @ like 50km/h they should leave you alone. However there is always that one cop who will decide to be a jerk. The way I figure is if enough of us are out there and seen and enough get fines and fight it then it will force MTO to take a look at these. Maybe in a few years Canadian tire will come out with some version of these things. You never know really.

 

[Rockenstein]

I think what you mentioned about ripping down the road at 50k is the big thing and one positive thing I've noticed is that most of the people that are building and riding these things are mature and responsible. I've yet to see a hoard of teens out terrorizing the streets with MB's as compared to how it was a few years back when there was nightly pocket bike and GoPed death races in our neighborhood.

 

[canuck]

I see guys on road bikes just slow down and go through red lights in town all the time.I guess that is OK?

That story about the guy in Kitchener was in the KW record today

TheRecord.com - Opinions - The rules of the road can be strange indeed

It was a Moped......a different animal all together. I can see why the charges.

I am sure you could get nailed but if you cannot register the bike or use it to get the class M license for a LSM what do you do? That would be the so called "grey area" I would think?

 

[Rockenstein]

In that article the ministry spokesperson say's "the ministry is reviewing the rules" then on the MTO website they go on about how the scooter and moped style e bikes were not part of the plan the ministry originally had in mind. The uncertainty about how the rules for e bikes will eventually pan out in Ontario is one reason why I don't want anything to do with one and even in the end unless the ministry includes DIY e bikes in the rules I still don't want one. I'm old enough to remember how moped users got screwed over back in the 70's when the MTO change all the rules...Canadian Tire was selling mopeds back then just like they are selling e bikes now.

You know what really gets me going...

In Ontario if you take a moped with it's engine disabled or missing and ride it down the road under pedal power your still considered to be riding a moped for which a proper DL, registration and insurance is required. So obviously you can't turn a moped into a bicycle but yet some of the powers that be in Ontario say you turn a bicycle into a moped when you install an engine kit? Little bit of a double standard happening there I think but regardless if such is the case you would think that they would make what's available for mopeds available for bicycle users too and if they don't want to then just leave us alone. I'm also of the opinion that the Ontario government has made life for moped users downright dangerous! I mean when you look at the rules for mopeds the ministry is expecting people to use them like motorcycles and mopeds are NOT motorcycles by any stretch. They are not as fast, they do not accelerate as quickly, they are not as heavy and so on yet they want people to ride them like a motorcycle that can keep up to 60+ km\h traffic? Is this the future that scooter\moped style e bike owners face? The ministry is putting people at risk and possibly even getting them killed with policies that serve nobody but them and the big insurance companies. One other thing is that if you can go to Canadian tire and buy an electric bike that can reach speeds of 32 km\h and ride it without needing to register or buy insurance for it why can't I ride a bicycle powered by a gas engine kit that is configured to go roughly the same speeds as that electric bicycle? What really is the difference in the power sources that they are seeing that I can't see?


I'm obviously ranting...will shut up now

 

[canuck]

Its the motor...not "green" like electric.

You make some good points though. Just a wait and see type situation I guess.

Til then I guess we all should take our Ford Superduty trucks to get something at the corner store.That's only if your wife has the Hummer that day.

 

[Rockenstein]

Til then I guess we all should take our Ford Superduty trucks to get something at the corner store.That's only if your wife has the Hummer that day.

And that my friend is just what the gov, insurance, auto and petroleum industries wants us all to do until THEY SAY stop

For a real laugh convert an old Ford Festiva or Geo Metro into an electric car and then try and get it legal for the road...lol...I traveled down that road a little bit and it's just stupid with a capital S! In Ontario you can get a DIY helicopter in the air faster and easier than you can get a DIY land vehicle on the road.

 

[Mike Hunt]

you guys got any good tricks for avoiding the fuzz? ive only gone on a few short rides to test my 50cc mb and i planned my routes thoroughly such that they only go through the smaller suburban streets, and killing the engine 100 meters from crossing a major street pretending im a bicyclist. gonna get the headlight/brakelight + bmx helmet soon. what else?

 

[Crash_Fall]

I've been stopped twice and pedaled away when it was over. Now, I'm in a small town
but the OPP all read the same book. Strange. Only thing I had to agree to was not to ride downtown or near the schools. No problem, I like the trails anyway.

 

[Mike Hunt]

what were you doing when pulled over and what did the cop ask you?