Need help getting it started

[tomg]

Hello all, I have a very similar "Won't Start" problem, I have not been able to get it started not even one time, not even with a powerful pedaling!
I have a generic 2 stroke 80cc chineese engine.
Everything is installed on the bike as it should be.
It is getting fuel, as I can see the fuel flowing through the hose, I have a standard NT carburator, I took the filter off and it has fuel fumes, I also unscrewed the bottom screww off the carburator just to see if it had fuel on the bottom and it does, so it is getting fuel. I also checked to see if the throthle pulls the needle up and down and it looks just fine, it pulls up and when released it goes back to the bottom as it should.
I replaced the spark plug for a brand new one, replaced the selenoid this time I did not conect the kill switch, STILL WONT START!. I am using 2 ounces of oil to 1 US quart of gas. What am I doing wrong?? Please Help!

 

[rustycase]

Tom, it's really best to systematically go through the diagnosis steps presented here in the repair sections.
Abt the best point on these chinagirls is they are simple!

compression, fuel, and spark.
then you can go into the fine points of each of those categories.

the guys here have posted excellent tutorials, complete with great pics!

Best
rc

 

[ex42k9j]

check for spark. is the motor turning over when you pedal?

nice to see another rider in the 505. if youre near the ventana ranch or westgate areas i may be able to help you in person if need be.

what kind of oil you using? i am breaking my 66cc skyhawk in with 24:1

by the way everyone, bought my roller chain, chain breaker, and 3 master links (came out to $46.73 so a quarter under what i expected to spend). should all be here between friday and monday so by next tuesday i should be riding nice.


i am also building a "travel kit" to bring with me when i ride. so far i have/am thinking of carrying:
led lights
an extra liter of fuel (oil mixed in)
extra spark plug and spark plug remover tool
extra chain and chain breaker
bike multi-tool (has every tool i need for bike itself but some tools are small/short)
misc. tools (wrenches for the wheels, electric tape, bike air pump, vice grips, extra flat/phillips screwdrivers, allen wrenches)

first aid kit (peroxide, alcohol, gauze, band-aids, clean water, energy bars)

anything anyone else can think of?

i think i am covered for most scenarios like it my chain pops off or breaks, if i get injured, if anything needs to be removed/tightened the tools i have can do it, etc.

 

[Al.Fisherman]

i am also building a "travel kit" to bring with me when i ride. so far i have/am thinking of carrying:
anything anyone else can think of?

A tube repair kit. I like these over the ones that China Mart sells.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Bicycle...238?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1fb8bdf6

And at a better price to boot.

 

[2door]

no start - Google Search

Tom

 

[ex42k9j]

Thanks Al.F. (your avatar makes me wish i could go salt water fishing)

what made me want to make a kit was i was riding my bike and made it around the block and my chain snapped off (no broken links just not enough tension i suppose, it popped off the sprocket). If i had my wrench and vice grips i would of been able to re-attach and ride it back home but i didn't so i had to move the chain over and pedal it up the hill in shame.

 

[nightcruiser]

Cost isn't much of an issue, im just cheap. I got it planned.

don't really need the chain breaker, i have a hammer and punch. but i figure if i am ever riding and need to do an on the road repair, the breaker would help me a lot more than a hammer and punch.

Good thought, and I understand why you would want a chain breaker in your bike tool pack, I kept one in my pack when I rode the kit chain...
I am sure you will find, like me, after you get real #41 chain on your bike you can leave the chain breaker out of your pack, there is no way you are going to snap a real #41 chain! If you snap this chain I would expect the force required to do that would also put your mind on other things than repairing the chain!

 

[waistofhumanspace]

it looked to me like your carb is at an extreem tilt, if it is at too much of a tilt it will not work properly

 

[ex42k9j]

Good thought, and I understand why you would want a chain breaker in your bike tool pack, I kept one in my pack when I rode the kit chain...
I am sure you will find, like me, after you get real #41 chain on your bike you can leave the chain breaker out of your pack, there is no way you are going to snap a real #41 chain! If you snap this chain I would expect the force required to do that would also put your mind on other things than repairing the chain!

yeah everyone says its a definite required upgrade. The one i got from ace outlet will hopefully be the real deal and i hope youre right that i won't ever have to worry about my chain again. i also see the breaking strength like a ton+ so i'm thinking it would jack the motor up before it breaks off


@waistofhumanspace

its not as tilted as my cheap camera makes it appear and the bike does indeed work now. i'm just in the process of perfecting it.

 

[nightcruiser]

yeah everyone says its a definite required upgrade. The one i got from ace outlet will hopefully be the real deal and i hope youre right that i won't ever have to worry about my chain again. i also see the breaking strength like a ton+ so i'm thinking it would jack the motor up before it breaks off


@waistofhumanspace

its not as tilted as my cheap camera makes it appear and the bike does indeed work now. I'm just in the process of perfecting it.

On my first build I mounted the motor without really understanding all the factors involved, after I rode it a while I decided to relocate it a bit...

I was able to rotate the motor a little bit to level the carb and also remove a little slack from the chain, then I added a small spacer to the rear mount of the motor which gave me enough tension on the chain to eliminate the chain tensioner all together. Removing the chain tensioner was a HUGE improvement, specially when riding with the motor disengaged, way less drag and noise without the tensioner... And one less thing to fiddle with, lots of people work to perfect their tensioner, I was more happy to eliminate it!

On the chain, if it is ANSI rated #41 chain, trust me, you're not gonna bust it! You'll see right away when you hold it in your hand, it's nothing like the chain you got with the kit... In fact it might appear so large and solid you might question if it will fit in place of that thin flimsy chain you have now, it will, and once installed everything will be more better....

 

[ex42k9j]

chain breaker arrived last night. Pretty cool looking tool, worth the price. chain should hopefully be here tonight, if not monday for sure.

 

[ex42k9j]

Well I got the chain (major difference, makes the stock chain look like a toy) a few days ago and i have been tinkering with tension ever since.

its like i cant get that perfect amount of tension without using a chain tensioner and the idler on it is that cheapo plastic wheel. I don't think i can take it off either (maybe by cutting through it?).

so as a result of lack of tension, the chain pops off the sprocket and i have to re-do to whole thing (loosen the motor, drop it to where i can get it back on the sprocket, lift the motor, tighten it back up) very tiring process when you do it 10x a day and you only get 1 or 2 minute rides out of it.

so i have been browsing around to see if i can solve the problem and so far its a no go.

i have read some good suggestive posts and i had the idea to try this if i could find a 17T idler sprocket for a #41 chain.

right now i have the bike hooked up with the tensioner and cheapo idler and there is no slack in the chain (havent test rode it yet) and its very tight. The only problem is its a little hard to peddle (a assume because of the thickness of that chain in the idler?)

 

[nightcruiser]

Well I got the chain (major difference, makes the stock chain look like a toy) a few days ago and i have been tinkering with tension ever since.

its like i cant get that perfect amount of tension without using a chain tensioner and the idler on it is that cheapo plastic wheel. I don't think i can take it off either (maybe by cutting through it?).

so as a result of lack of tension, the chain pops off the sprocket and i have to re-do to whole thing (loosen the motor, drop it to where i can get it back on the sprocket, lift the motor, tighten it back up) very tiring process when you do it 10x a day and you only get 1 or 2 minute rides out of it.

so i have been browsing around to see if i can solve the problem and so far its a no go.

i have read some good suggestive posts and i had the idea to try this if i could find a 17T idler sprocket for a #41 chain.

right now i have the bike hooked up with the tensioner and cheapo idler and there is no slack in the chain (haven't test rode it yet) and its very tight. The only problem is its a little hard to peddle (a assume because of the thickness of that chain in the idler?)

It should be really hard to make a #41 chain pop off the drive sprocket due to its size, you really have it coming off on you up there? As for putting it back on, you shouldn't have to dismount the motor? If you need slack in the chain to get it back on you should dismount your rear wheel to get that slack instead of the motor, should be much easier, specially if you have quick release hubs. If you have a master link just remove it and feed the chain over the motor sprocket by turning the sprocket with the spark plug tool that came with your kit, then reinstall the master link. I run a one piece #41 chain (no master link) and I can't get my chain to come off (or go back on) without pulling the drive sprocket off the motor. I have never had this chain come off on me (the kit chain did all the time), so I suspect if you have a #41 chain coming off you have a problem with the alignment of your rear sprocket. Either it is not centered on the hub and the wobble is making your chain bounce and come off, or the position of the rear sprocket is not aligned with the motor sprocket causing the chain to dog leg a bit and come off.
As for eliminating the tensioner all together, you would need to shorten the chain to the smallest size that will fit, then adjust the rear wheel position and motor mouting position until there is enough tension on the chain. Sounds to me like you are using too much tension if you have that much resistance, your chain should have some slack in it, it should have enough slack to lift it about 1/2" with your finger. My drive chain has a fair amount of slack in it and it never pops off on me, the slack has never caused me any problems. In fact, I find too much tension causes me more resistance, noise and problems than having a bit of slack.

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

I like there to be about half an inch of slack in both directions on my chain, but I also primarily ride street and I have awesome alignment. You would only go tighter than half an inch if you rode offroad.

 

[ex42k9j]

It should be really hard to make a #41 chain pop off the drive sprocket due to its size, you really have it coming off on you up there? As for putting it back on, you shouldn't have to dismount the motor? If you need slack in the chain to get it back on you should dismount your rear wheel to get that slack instead of the motor, should be much easier, specially if you have quick release hubs. If you have a master link just remove it and feed the chain over the motor sprocket by turning the sprocket with the spark plug tool that came with your kit, then reinstall the master link. I run a one piece #41 chain (no master link) and I can't get my chain to come off (or go back on) without pulling the drive sprocket off the motor. I have never had this chain come off on me (the kit chain did all the time), so I suspect if you have a #41 chain coming off you have a problem with the alignment of your rear sprocket. Either it is not centered on the hub and the wobble is making your chain bounce and come off, or the position of the rear sprocket is not aligned with the motor sprocket causing the chain to dog leg a bit and come off.
As for eliminating the tensioner all together, you would need to shorten the chain to the smallest size that will fit, then adjust the rear wheel position and motor mouting position until there is enough tension on the chain. Sounds to me like you are using too much tension if you have that much resistance, your chain should have some slack in it, it should have enough slack to lift it about 1/2" with your finger. My drive chain has a fair amount of slack in it and it never pops off on me, the slack has never caused me any problems. In fact, I find too much tension causes me more resistance, noise and problems than having a bit of slack.

i'm left handed, excuse my backward ways of thinking. i learn one way and stick to it.

the sprocket may be my problem. it seemed to fit nicely on the hub but maybe its not aligned anymore (an example is my coaster brake arm was very loose this morning, the nut somehow got loosened and i never mess with that part. maybe that happened to the sprocket too)

i have the sprocket shiny side facing away from the chain and it seems to be aligned straightly with the motor

i know how to feed the chain through (my very first post was that question haha).

ok well im going to loosen it up a bit, give it that 1/2" of slack. will report back.

I like there to be about half an inch of slack in both directions on my chain, but I also primarily ride street and I have awesome alignment. You would only go tighter than half an inch if you rode offroad.

thats good to know, i will be off-roading sometimes.

 

[ex42k9j]

ok i gave it that nice 1/2" of slack and guess what? she runs no problem now. test rode her around the block a few times and no popping off chain.

it does feel like i can feel the chain passing by under me. is that normal? maybe just a lot of vibration (not using any rubber).

also she seems to have a hard time carrying my fat a$$ up the hill to my house (I am 6' 0" about 180-190 pounds but havent got weighed in months though ~ was 179 when i got weighed so i did add some extra weight.) i guess i have to wait until she breaks in before she can carry me up a midium-high without me having to help pedal. but the ride down the hill was a blast!

also i still cant get her to sit idle. if i am not throttling or like when i was going up the hill i could hear her starting to die unless i pedaled it will just cut off on me. can i only get it idle after i break in?


also i was thinking of doing some modifications:

1)Cut a few holes in the muffler (makes it louder but i hear it helps with acceleration)
2)Put on rubber (help with vibration)
3)Put rubber spacers on the motor side fins (Hear it helps with noise reduction)
4)Cut the long metal tube thing (intake manifold???) when you open your muffler
5)Get a better carb (maybe spend a good $60 on a speed carb)
6)Maybe go down to a lower # sprocket, at my weight though i don't think i should go under a 40T sprocket though
7)get some 1.75 wheels cause i don't like how close my chain is to the wheel (doesn't rub it or anything just wouldn't like it so close)
8)eventually replace muffler with a poo poo muffler or something.
9)get a paper filter cause i sometimes am seeing these little black things in my fuel line.

 

[nightcruiser]

ok i gave it that nice 1/2" of slack and guess what? she runs no problem now. test rode her around the block a few times and no popping off chain.

it does feel like i can feel the chain passing by under me. is that normal? maybe just a lot of vibration (not using any rubber).

also she seems to have a hard time carrying my fat a$$ up the hill to my house (I am 6' 0" about 180-190 pounds but haven't got weighed in months though ~ was 179 when i got weighed so i did add some extra weight.) i guess i have to wait until she breaks in before she can carry me up a medium-high without me having to help pedal. but the ride down the hill was a blast!

also i still cant get her to sit idle. if i am not throttling or like when i was going up the hill i could hear her starting to die unless i pedaled it will just cut off on me. can i only get it idle after i break in?


also i was thinking of doing some modifications:

1)Cut a few holes in the muffler (makes it louder but i hear it helps with acceleration)
2)Put on rubber (help with vibration)
3)Put rubber spacers on the motor side fins (Hear it helps with noise reduction)
4)Cut the long metal tube thing (intake manifold???) when you open your muffler
5)Get a better carb (maybe spend a good $60 on a speed carb)
6)Maybe go down to a lower # sprocket, at my weight though i don't think i should go under a 40T sprocket though
7)get some 1.75 wheels cause i don't like how close my chain is to the wheel (doesn't rub it or anything just wouldn't like it so close)
8)eventually replace muffler with a poo poo muffler or something.
9)get a paper filter cause i sometimes am seeing these little black things in my fuel line.

Glad you got your chain situation worked out....
It is NOT normal to have to pedal up a hill, I weigh 200lbs and my bike can pull me at about 20-25MPH up a fairly steep hill. I would say you have some issues yet to work out with your carb, needs to be tuned better.
As far as all your mods go, I would suggest you give that a rest for now and learn about what you got. Putting holes in the muffler is gonna change the tuning and require you to re-tune your carb, changing the air filter will do the same. I would get her running and idling well before I go drilling holes and hacking things off shorter.
As for the paper fuel filter, if you see black crap in your line then you needed one YESTERDAY! These fuel tanks are usually LOADED UP with crap inside them when they are new, if you didn't clean that crap out you are gonna have fuel delivery and carb problems sooner than later. If you see black crap in your line then your carb is probably already all clogged up! The needle valve and jets are really tiny, the black particles you are seeing, if large enough to see are definitely large enough to clog up your carb.....

 

[ex42k9j]

well i have no idea about carb tuning so yeah.....i dont know jack about these things, i'm just happy it runs

 

[nightcruiser]

well i have no idea about carb tuning so yeah.....i dont know jack about these things, i'm just happy it runs

unfortunately, if you see black stuff in your fuel line she probably isnt going to run for long. At that point you will at least learn about carb cleaning, soon after that I would bet you start tuning...
It's not that tough, you will learn as you go, soon enough you will understand how things are working...
What carb do you have again?

 

[rustycase]

Ditto on the filter advice!

...and all the other things on the list, just hold off for a bit...
Run it around for a while til u get a better feel for it.

Especially do NOT drill holes in the muffler! lol

Glad ur havin fun
rc