Need help getting it started

Discussion in 'Motorized Cruiser Bicycles' started by ex42k9j, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. ex42k9j

    ex42k9j New Member

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    my bad on clarity.

    by warming up the motor i mean i brought it in from outside and let it get room temperature so the motor wasn't cold to the touch.

    yeah apparently you should feel the motor pushing you, i don't feel that so i must be pedal powering it as you say. how do i get it to fire? keep pedaling?

    yeah i have decided to just leave the choke down or at mid way.

    motor has never been ran, i have a new spark plug and plug wire but i never tested to see if it was sparking (i should remove the spark plug from the motor, put it in the plug wire, put the spark plug on the head fins of the motor while pushing the bike at a decent speed to test for spark right?)

    never heard a popping sound just the compression sound.
     
    #41 ex42k9j, Nov 5, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  2. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    OK, sounds to me like you have a motor that has not fired up and run at all yet...
    Unfortunately you prematurely changed the plug wire and introduced an extra variable and possible point of failure. I have no way of telling if you did a good job on that or not....
    My advise for you (notwithstanding the plug wire) would be that you need to double check over everything first. By that I mean make sure your intake and exhaust are securely mounted (they need to be tight and not leaking air), and your carb is fully seated on the intake and sealed, and make sure your gas is flowing. Then take a ride, get going at a fair clip and release the clutch. The motor will start to turn over, mind you it is not "running". Keep riding and turning over the motor and hold the throttle wide open. After pedaling a while she should fire up, you will know when that happens! After you get to this point you should try to let the motor IDLE without a load for the first ten minutes and then ride it gently for a break-in period (so I read in this forum). If you get her running but can't get idle then you need to push forward with more tuning at that point....
    As for your new plug wire and testing spark... Yes, you pull the plug from the motor and connect it to the plug wire, then ground the plug on the motor somewhere or with a jumper wire and turn over the motor. With the plug removed the motor will turn over very easily and you should see the plug spark as it turns over. Again, beware of the fuel/spark element here!!!
    Again, if your plug is DRY, not smelling or showing gas then I wouldn't worry too much about testing for spark, assume your wire is good and ride her until she fires or until when you pull the plug you see evidence of gas. She wont fire without gas!.....
    Good luck....
    PS If you are bringing the bike into the house to "warm up" then I assume you are riding in a cold environment. In this case when starting the bike the choke will probably be helpful.
     
    #42 nightcruiser, Nov 5, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  3. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Speaking of fuel delivery....
    I am not sure if you had cleaned out your gas tank or not before you installed it? They are usually full of all sorts of debris that will no doubt restrict fuel flow. I couldn't believe how much crap came out of my fuel tank. Also, some people have problem with their gas cap not venting and letting fuel flow. Try loosening the cap so you know the thank is venting and see if that helps get her going....
     
  4. ex42k9j

    ex42k9j New Member

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    well i tested for spark and got a nice blue spark so i know the spark plug/plug wire works. there is gas at the end of my spark plug (dried it before i tested for spark of course) so i don't know why it isnt firing up

    my guess is that i just need to keep on pedaling when i pop the clutch out, stop being so lazy (havent been going half as far as i can go for the fear that it wont start and i have to do the walk of shame and be tired when i make it up the hill to try again)

    and yes it has been getting cold here lately (winter weather has hit us in the last couple days) weather in the high 50's to mid 60's but its constantly windy making it feel much colder than it is. during the afternoons if its not windy you can be outside with a shirt and jeans but when its windy, a good jacket/coat or two is almost necessary.

    basically i shouldn't be leaving the bike outside in the conditions with gas in its tank, so now its in my garage which stays pretty warm (warmer than outside anyway).

    i know fuel is flowing and my tank is clean.
     
    #44 ex42k9j, Nov 5, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  5. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Active Member

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    Just pedal it until it starts.
     
  6. rustycase

    rustycase Gutter Rider

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    mine will start btr with the choke on when cold...
    rc
     
  7. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman New Member

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    Your method of testing the spark plug is correct. Myself I always test the engine electrical system on the bench after I had a bad magneto. This method can be used with the engine installed. Remove chain and sprocket cover. Take a electrical drill (a ratchet and socket can work) and socket, without the plug installed and grounding on the engine, spin the crankshaft with the drill, and watch for a good spark. If grounding is a problem, tale a wire and strip about enough to wrap the bare wire around the base of the plug and the other end around a screw on the engine. I don't do this as I have a vice to hold my engine.

    Here I made a test light to test the magneto.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]''
    Also since this thread is so long, I don't recall if timing was mentioned. Here is a photo of the magnet at the correct timing position (piston at TDC)
    [​IMG]
     
    #47 Al.Fisherman, Nov 6, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  8. rustycase

    rustycase Gutter Rider

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    Really great work you've done, Alf !

    ...You should consider publishing a chinagirl repair manual.

    Best
    rc
     
  9. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman New Member

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    Now all we need to do is to get new members is to read the stickies prior to asking questions that have been asked and answered 100's of times. Believe it or not this China girl engine is the first (I've had others makes) that I've ever had to work on. These engines are by far the easiest to diagnosed and work on in the 100's of engines I've done.
     
    #49 Al.Fisherman, Nov 6, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  10. ex42k9j

    ex42k9j New Member

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    well i got her running fellas. i think it was just to cold when i tried to start it yesterday so it wouldnt run. now my only problem is the crap chain they give you (came with the kit).

    ran it once around the block and when i made it back to my house then the chain popped off (i was lucky i made it back) and i lost my master link. no biggie, i had another.

    so after re-aligning my chains (worst part of assembling this bike so far) i tried running her again, started great but the chain popped off once again and i lost my last master link.


    i'm reading a should get a #41 roller chain, or a 410 or 415, basically anything other than the crappy one they give you.
     
  11. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Active Member

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    Go with #41 or 415.

    And also, be sure your alignment is proper! This means engine angle, sprocket direction, and tensioner adjustments.
     
  12. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    I had the same experience with the kit chain, you should replace it before it snaps and you either hurt yourself or your bike. I went with a #41 chain that I purchased through Amazon.com, got 10ft for about $10 bucks (couldn't find any #41 chain locally). HUGE difference, after I put the #41 on the bike I never thought or worried about my chain again, she rode smoother too. One thing about the #41 chain, you can't split the links with a regular bicycle chain tool. You either need a motorcycle or industrial chain tool to work with this chain, or you can use a center punch, hammer and vise. I used the punch and hammer, had to be careful but it got the job done.
    One thing you might try with your crappy chain in the meanwhile, take some of the extra links you removed when you built the bike and use them to mend your broken chain. Instead of using a master link just mend the chain links together to have a one piece chain. Without the master link the kit chain is a bit more durable, that might keep you riding until you get your new chain...
     
  13. ex42k9j

    ex42k9j New Member

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    where can i find a chain? i checked ace hardware and the only chains they had weren't heavy duty or the right size (i think.) they had 1 & 1/2 and 1 & 3/16 i think. one for 10 speed bikes, the other for single speed (which is what i have)

    couldn't find what number it was (410, 415, etc) so i didn't buy it.

    know of any places? walmart or grainger? no tractor companies here, only bmx store i know of is gone and really don't want to spend $30 for a $10 chain online
     
  14. dakota47l1

    dakota47l1 New Member

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    are you sure you dont have a 415 chain already?is it biger than the chain on you bike?
     
  15. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Active Member

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    Check tractor supply stores - that's your best bet for #41. 410 is cheap crap, don't use it. 415 is good, pick it up at your local bike store (not just bmx specific shops).
     
  16. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Grainger should have it, ebay and amazon are good sources as well. I got mine from Amazon.com, from the AceHardwareOnline store. It was "Farmex #41 Roller Chain", it should cost you about $16 for a 10 foot section including delivery. Just search Amazon.com (or ebay)
     
  17. ex42k9j

    ex42k9j New Member

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    Cheapest i am finding is $17 bucks including shipping. I will be going out to grainger this afternoon to look for one (feel i could probably get 2 for that price). any specific dimensions i should know about?

    in the mean time i will take nightcruiser's advice and make the chain one solid chain so i can try riding it again (its very fun).

    thank you for all the help guys. once i get her running perfectly i shall be posting a video.
     
    #57 ex42k9j, Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  18. ex42k9j

    ex42k9j New Member

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    well i did a little digging and called a few places. grainger is out the question. $35 for the chain, $45 for the chain breaker. they were the only place is town that had it in stock though so i suppose they are monopolizing on that fact.

    either way for $45 online (including shipping) i can get a breaker, chain, and spare master links so i think thats the route i'm going to go. In the mean time I have the chain re-attached with no master link but I have not tested it out yet.

    now that i know she works and can run next on the shopping list is a better rear wheel (thinner, maybe one with a welded sprocket). then an aftermarket carb/air filter, then better kick stand (mine keeps loosening up so im thinking of getting a center kick stand), then throttle, then a bigger tank.
     
  19. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    If cost is an issue for you, 10ft of #41 chain including delivery is $12-$15 on Ebay or Amazon. I dont know where you are buying from, but $45 seems quite high. I broke my #41 links with a hammer, center punch and vise, and mended the links back together with the same tools to have a one piece chain. If you buy a master link all you need to do is break one link to shorten the chain to length, then mend it with the master link, you should be able to manage this with tools you have around the house and save yourself $30 bucks....
     
  20. ex42k9j

    ex42k9j New Member

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    Cost isn't much of an issue, im just cheap. I got it planned.

    Ace Hardware Outlet sells 10ft of chain for like $12 and they sell master links for $2 a pop. $9 for shipping/handling. with 3 master links its like $28.

    rocky mountain atv has a tusk brand chain breaker for $12 with $7 shipping/handling.

    grand total of $47 for all that I need.

    don't really need the chain breaker, i have a hammer and punch. but i figure if i am ever riding and need to do an on the road repair, the breaker would help me a lot more than a hammer and punch.
     

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