Jag cdi

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Toothy, May 23, 2014.

  1. Toothy

    Toothy New Member

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    Sorry if this is in the wrong spot. Has anyone opened it up and changed the setting. If so, please let me know how it changed things.
     
  2. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    I had a clone of the jag one time and I never made any adjustments to it but I didnt like it at all, I lost about 6-7 mph off my top speed due to its timing retarding at higher rpms which is like a rev limiter, I saw zero advantage to that unit and it actually burned out after just a few miles.

    I guess the old jag unit may be ok on a stock engine but for an engine with mods that will allow it to turn high rpms it isn't any good at all, it limits potential performance big time.

    All that said, I dont know anything about jags newest unit which I believe is an unlimited timing model that works the same as the HD's Lightening set up and its a little cheaper than the Lightening CDI also.

    I have one of the Lightening CDI u its on one of my bikes now and it does a good job just like a stock unit does for not limiting rpm potential.

    Im sure someone can ring in on adjusting the jag unit but ho estly not many on here run them I dont think.



    Map
    .wee.
     
    #2 mapbike, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  3. Toothy

    Toothy New Member

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    Thanks map,
    Ouch....I never ran a stock CDI so I can't compare. If anyone else would chime in I would appreciate it. I'm not trying to start a debate but after after all the time and money, I want to get the best out of my bike.
     
  4. sub66

    sub66 New Member

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    then drive it. nobody gonna come over and refund cash and help with tuning so stop giving ur money away.
    jaguar cdi is retarded. hd is a copycat with a 3 dollar coil doing all the work.
     
  5. Toothy

    Toothy New Member

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    Ok sub..not asking someone to come over and tune my bike. It seems that pretty much everything that comes with these engines is crap. I must have missed the cdi debate in my research and upgraded so if you have something useful to say, go for it.
     
    #5 Toothy, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  6. Toothy

    Toothy New Member

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    So map are u saying running a stock cdi is the way to go......jag and others are a snake oil product.
     
  7. Techbiker

    Techbiker New Member

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    My suspicion is that the Jag CDI is snake oil. Whenever anyone mentions "jaguar cdi" in the other forum, Fabian drools over it and "Jaguar" steps in to tout the "benefits" of his cdi.

    http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?42933-blown-motorized-bike-carnage!&p=380223#post380223

    Note that my username is "flashstar" there.

    The CDI will certainly have an impact on an engine. The problem is no one has been able to show me that the stock CDI is sufficiently bad to warrant a $70 upgrade. Why not just decrease plug gap and increase jet size a bit to make things safer?

    Unless one of the Jag CDI supporters can irrefutably tie accelerated engine wear to the stock CDI (versus the Jag), I continue to believe that this "upgrade" is snake oil.
     
    #7 Techbiker, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  8. sub66

    sub66 New Member

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    toothy are you asking me a question or just shooting the moon? ask any american here why double spark plugs run actually worse? that will amuse me greatly.


    a1 and x1 or topend will be unreachable
     
    #8 sub66, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  9. SchwinnStingray

    SchwinnStingray New Member

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    Just speaking in general terms here (and my background is with V8 cars) the products in question aside here, there must be something in being able to fine tune your timing to suit individual motors, 4 stroke cars for example, the factory always soft tunes cars, with no other mods, fine tuning the advance curve always improves drivability and throttle response, even more so, once you raise the compression ratio and or improve valve timing it is a must to alter ignition timing.
    FWIW all the hard core bike guys spend hundreds on the best CDI to improve performance.

    Two main issues are 1, spark strength and timing.
    The higher the compression ratio the stronger the spark needs to be.
    Timing needs to have a slightly different curve than standard and will, in most cases, need to be retarded at WOT with higher comp/rpm and improved port timing.

    A standard unit may be suited to mass production but once you play with these things, head, compression, porting and the like then you will, in my opinion, need some way of improving the ignition and dialing in the timing.
     
  10. sub66

    sub66 New Member

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    have u seen jaguars handwork? its abysmal. a dreamer and a poet yes.

    i have the power to teach but u asking everybody so go ahead.
     
    #10 sub66, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  11. SchwinnStingray

    SchwinnStingray New Member

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    The wires look so small they look like the connectors are about to fall off.
     
  12. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    As far as performance goes you can get just about all any china girl is capable of giving by just running a stock cdi, I've registered over 9000 rpm on two of my engines running a stock cdi, the jag and lightening cdi isn't gonna give any benefit, if someone likes how rhey look and like the idea of the bigger coil thats fine, kinda like chrome wheels doesnt make a car faster......
    There may be a little benefit to the hotter coil with engines running more oil in the mix, I dont really think it has an effect on mine that much because I run 100:1 mix Opti2 oil which is only 1.28oz per gallon so combustion takes place easy in my engines since there isn't a heavy load of oil in the mix.

    I do think the stock cdi has clearly been proven to be plenty adequate for stock builds all the way up to the few who have broke the 50mph barrier, top performance seems to be affected by other factors way more than the cdi and coil, a well tumed and balanced engine with a good exhaust performs great with a stock unit, the old style jag has been proven to hender performance rather than improve it, top speed will drop several mph on a good running engine when a jag cdi is installed in place of the stock unit.

    Hope this helps explain my opinion and personal experience.

    $10 for a stock unit and if all else is in order 40+ mph is not har to accomplish.

    Map
     
  13. Toothy

    Toothy New Member

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    Map...cheers!
    As a first time builder and on a steep learning curve I appreciate the info. I have it wired up so I'll leave it be, I may switch it back. Sub...you should post a sticky on this subject so that we need not bother you with such trivial questions. Sorry but you seem like a pompous.....oh, you know the answer.
     
    #13 Toothy, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  14. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    Not to be argumentative about this but I run high compression heads, heavily ported jugs, very good tuned carbs and good flowing exhaust on my bikes, I just ran a non gpsd speedometer registed top speed a few days ago of 51.5 mph on one of my bikes and before it was even slightly broke I gps d 46.8 mph on that same bike, its not even running a high dollar billet head but rather a Puch hi hi 70cc moped head that cost $30 new, people claim the squish isn't right on that head and whatever yet I am getting good power and 45-50 mph out of one bike and the one bike I have with a fred head and the same basic set up is the slower of the two.

    One bike is running a stock cdi and the other isn't, it could be that the better coil is helping out some on the one bike but the bike with stock coil will scream at mid 40's mph pulling myself at 215lbs

    These engines do just fine with a stock unit even with compression really boosted, I have proven that with my engines and so have several others.

    One fella on here blew an engine doing over 60 mph and best I remember he was running a stock cdi on that highly modified engine.

    The high dollar custom units are fine but not required to have a strong fast china girl.
     
    #14 mapbike, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  15. Toothy

    Toothy New Member

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    Map,
    I really respect what you have to say. I bought the unit within the last three months so it must be the latest and greatest. With no prior experience with basic china engine set ups I can't compare. What I'm running might be great or poor to someone in the know. I really don't want to pull my wiring to see......but would I be better off with stock? ....got to try, damn!!

    These bikes are a challenge .... The gf is laying down some heat!
     
  16. SchwinnStingray

    SchwinnStingray New Member

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    No problem at all, I was merely trying to make a comparison.
    All opinions are greatly appreciated.

    I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. method.

    If the stock CDI is making enough spark at the right time then there is very little to gain from upgrading it.

    I suspect that some who feel the big power increase from these either were up for a new unit to replace an old unit or simple inadvertently fixed some poor connections along the way.
     
  17. Davezilla

    Davezilla New Member

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    I don't have the Jag CDI but from what I know about them they should have a set of switches inside the box which change the timing curve, how much the curve is changed I don't know, and how to set the switches I don't know either, but Jag knows and he can be reached here... http://www.dragonfly75.com/motorbike/index.html His email is at the bottom of his page. This is the page that explains his timing curve settings... http://www.dragonfly75.com/motorbike/5curves.html
    Hope this helps
     
  18. Davezilla

    Davezilla New Member

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  19. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    Well, Toothy what I say on all of this isn't etched in stone by any means... , but I can speak from personal experience and relate to what other have said they have experienced, I know there is suppose to be a new version of the jag cdi that doesn't have the big timing retard in it like the original model had or has, what you have may do everything you ever need or want it to do, I say if you're happy with it and if it aint broke leave it be... no need to fix something that aint broke, just ride safe and enjoy it just like it is, obviously jag is still making his. Di because people like it, I have said what I have to let people know that they shouldn't buy the more expensive ignition parts under the impression that they will see a noticeable power or speed gain, when it has been proven that the stock unit does a good job for cheap, if someone enjoys tinkering and trying new gadgets and gizmos like I do then by all means buy one and try it out... I waiste a little money here and there on my bikes but its part of the hobby for me and I dont chance more than I can afford to loose, like I said I have a Lightening CDI and I have a Rocket CDI and several stock units, I plan to test lightening against the rocket for top speed and I know that there for sure wont be any felt difference up to top speed between the two, but I cant tell someone they need a Jag a Lightening or Rocket CDI because it will make their bike faster becausethat just isn't being honest.

    I chose to order the Rocket CDI because I want to deal with respectful and ethical vendors when I spend my hard earned money on parts and pieces, the maker of the Rocket CDI seems to be a straight shooter and not a jerk to people and I cant say that for some others who are making CDI's and over charging the heck outta people for them in my opinion.

    Stock or custom CDI doesnt really matter, get everything else right for the best performance regardless of the ignition you choose and that will provide you with the extra speed and torque you're looking for, a cdi will never make a big or even noticeable performance difference alone.

    Map dnut
     
  20. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

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    seems swapping CDIs between the two bikes could yield an answer to whether it is making a diff.
     

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