Indian Tadpole

[Tom from Rubicon]

Steve, I surely hope your Son did as his friends Mother requested.
Albert Soady said " As grandpa Alfonse always said, anything free is worth saving up for". Should your son find some value to remunerate his buddies mother. Good for him.
Tom

 

[fasteddy]

I'm sure he will Tom. She was adamant apparently that she wanted nothing for the tools except for him to use them. If he can't find a way to repay her, her son will benefit and he may have already and that is why David was given the tools. He's heavily involved in the motorcycle and 4x4 circles in New England and he helps out as much as he can.

One of my favorite photos of him was when he was at a large 4x4 meet and he was sitting at a picnic table with someones carb spread out in pieces in front of him and a big smile on his face. Just following the clues.

When he rode his motorcycle to South America he stopped and helped people who were broken down on the roadside. They would try and offer him what ever they could for payment but he'd refuse it usually since it meant they had less. As he told me it was amazing that people who had so little were willing to share so freely.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

Glad your Son is going into business doing what he loves and what a wonderful, kind bequest for a young man just starting out! I wish him great success & know you are quite proud of him...justly so.

The thought you & S.B. plotting for next summer's camp makes me smile.

Rick C.

 

[fasteddy]

The clutch still isn't working. The actuator is pushing away from the clutch instead of pushing the clutch away from actuator. Thankfully I have a large drawing board. I'm back at it.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Just had an epiphany. It wasn't bad either. It paired well with some red wine I found in the back of the closet from last Christmas.

The clutch works. Just sitting here thinking about the actuator moving the wrong way and why. Took the actuator off and put a washer up against machined section inside the sprocket center opening.
Put it back together and the clutch plates opened nicely. Tomorrow I'll look into seeing what I can do to make the necessary adjustments permanent.

I don't know if the washer can be left free or needs to be anchored to the clutch.

Steve

 

[indian22]

I mentioned spacing and tolerances in a previous post & appropriate shims provide this in these basic clutch setups. I feel you're on the road to redemption though it may seem at times the bypass to perdition. If this shim is indeed the answer then I'd be led to think that somewhere during the various assemblies of the clutch, by either the machinist or yourself that the shim was by accident left out & if that is the case the shim was loose fit and not attached.

Rick C.

 

[fasteddy]

It's as I received the clutch from it being converted. As soon as I opened the box I saw that a bicycle sprocket had been attached instead of the sprocket I asked for. I sent it back and supplied the sprocket and payed to have it redone.

Then when I mounted it, the trying to make it work began. For what I have in this clutch I could have purchased a good quality battery and a hub motor and been riding in a couple of days after receiving them.

Steve.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

I'm good at Where's Waldo but I can not discern a difference in before and after photos Steve. Just glad you were able to visualize the clutch action or lack of.
Tom from Rubicon, WI

 

[fasteddy]

Hi Tom,

I worked for a chap in New Hampshire. His name is Bob Waldo. Life can be cruel.

Haven't had a chance to get any photos of what I'm talking about yet but I'll try and get some up shortly. Just sitting here last night thinking about the clutch and pondering what to do when Dawn came to Marble Head and I realized that if the actuator was pushing the wrong direction then obviously it wasn't able to move in the correct direction.
Old age is standing in the way of youthful brilliance.

I'm grateful for everyone coming along on the journey. I'll hook this up tomorrow afternoon and see what we have.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

I could have gone electric with this but I wouldn't have missed this toboggan ride no matter how long it took to get to the bottom of the hill.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

So far the clutch is working nicely but I'll have to put it on the bike tomorrow. No reason it shouldn't work like it is on the bolt I'm using. The lever I added makes a difference in activating the clutch. very smooth and easy. It still needs to be drilled and tapped and two bolts installed to make sure it doesn't move but it is a press and hammer fit as is.

I have a few photos of the final cure. I cut two washers out of 1/8" steel plate. The first one slides up against the part of the clutch that releases the pressure against the clutch plates by compressing the springs. This is the shiny machined surface you see.

Then you can see the black washer sitting in place. The clutch actuator presses on this. The actuator is next and to take care of the little slack remaining I used another washer on the outside of it.

As Rick said when the victory comes the taste will be sweet. How very true.

I have to run errands that I've put off for weeks, tomorrow. When I get back I plan to work on getting the clutch hooked up baring any problems. With any luck I'll have the bike ready to try and start on Monday if it isn't raining.

Victory!

Steve.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

I'm glad you "Think" you have it sorted Steve. Do your much needed errands.
Took the trouble of chasing 3D's exploded assembly "with numbers and arrows", Strangely there is a bit un-numbered or arrowed between #04 the outer pressure plate and #12 the rotating actuator. Strongly dislike mechanical mysteries.
We are expecting pantomime BC weather here the next two days. Not complaining. Saturday my chain alignments corrected on the Sportsman Flyer 80. Pat was kind enough to put me straight.
Keep chugging Steve, we are in this for the long haul.
Tom from Rubicon, WI

 

[fasteddy]

Hi Tom,
The round, unnumbered part is the bearing that fits inside rotating actuator. There is one in each half of the actuator.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Clutch is on the bike and working with a major problem. When the activator is used, when it opens the clutch the spacer locks the large aluminum sprocket from turning. This will stall the engine.
The aluminum sprocket will only turn if the clutch isn't depressed. It worked well when I tested it before it went on the bike.

I'm sensing an Oh S#*% moment. However tomorrow is another day and we'll see if anything turns up when I sleep on it.

Here are some photos of how it looks on the bike.

Steve

 

[indian22]

Clutch is on the bike and working with a major problem. When the activator is used, when it opens the clutch the spacer locks the large aluminum sprocket from turning. This will stall the engine.
The aluminum sprocket will only turn if the clutch isn't depressed. It worked well when I tested it before it went on the bike.

I'm sensing an Oh S#*% moment. However tomorrow is another day and we'll see if anything turns up when I sleep on it.

Here are some photos of how it looks on the bike.

Steve


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Steve am I correct in saying the small washer you machined goes on pedal shaft 1st. and bears up against only the bronze bushing? Then the larger washer goes on next & bears up on the aluminum when the actuator lever is pulled by the cable. If this isn't correct would you describe just how you now have these pieces assembled?

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Does the activator plate have enough clearance to fully rebound to the open or free position after the lever is released & does the lever fully release without your encouragement?

The small washer may not be quite thick enough to adequately kick the large washer away from the sprocket face on actuator disengagement.

One last thing is the outer frame/support housing preventing the actuator from fully rebounding? I can't help but think a matter of a few thousandths of an inch is halting all progress.

Rick C.

 

[fasteddy]

The larger washer goes up against the machined surface where the clutch plates are. The actuator presses on this to activate the clutch. The bronze bushing make contact with the large washer

The smaller washer goes on last just to act as a filler so the actuator can't move back off the shaft.

When the activator presses on the large washer pushing into the machined surface it stops the large aluminum sprocket from turning but moves the clutch plates apart.

I'll go out to the garage and take it off the bike and post pictures since they are indeed worth a 1000 words.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Here is the machined face.


Then the washer goes up against it to activate it.


Then when the actuator goes against it the bronze bearing rests on the washer.


Then the other washer goes against it.


I may have found the answer to the problem. When I took the actuator apart I moved the ball bearings to the other end of their slots. The movement of the actuator shortened and it seems that the sprocket is turning freely. I'll put it on the bike tomorrow and find out.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

That indeed may solve the problem if not I'd say the bronze bushing isn't making enough contact with the washer to separate the two assemblies also the spacer washer on the outside of the actuator may be a bit too thick. Moving the bearings sounds an improvement. A small tolerance adjustment is required somewhere to gain a bit of separation, it's just finding the where and how much at this point & moving the bearings may have solved the problem. At any rate this clutch is going to work.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

AMEN! To that, just takes a little time and study, and maybe a couple sleepless nights.............Curt