In frame Predator fricton drive build

GoldenMotor.com

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
12,765
115
48
59
Moosylvania
There almost has to be some thing already produced that could be re-purposed?

When I have these sort of questions, I ask Tom. (2Door) If there is some obscure, left handed, made from exotic material widget, he will not only know what it is called but where to get one.
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
5
38
louisiana
Look at 2 piece shaft collars from Mcmaster Carr. Might have to gang them up to get width. Could be machined thinner if the jump in size is too much. Could knurl them for good grip.

or maybe use a pair, with split pipes welded to them. Make several sets with different diameters
 
Last edited:

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
I just wish there was a roller (even made of hard plastic or composite) that was in 2 pieces which clamped onto the 1" roller. Then I could use the 1" all week but put the 1.5" on easily for a weekend run out of town.
I have found oak to be very tough for roller use. Cut a 1.5" roller with a hole saw then follow with a 1" center hole. Then split it. Could be clamped with a hose clamp. You would probably have to laminate two rollers together for width. I made a large # of rollers from a 1"thick cutting board my wife threw away. This assumes you have suitable room in the engine channel for the clamp.
 

happycheapskate

New Member
Nov 26, 2009
1,989
3
0
Rockwall TX
It's the new Dax friction drive. I am not sure how wide the roller is, but it's unmodified.

I thought about the wood roller idea. That sounds good. Please message or post on my visitor page about how you made the cutting-board roller. I thought of that too, because the plastic/nylon on those is pretty tough. I suppose you just laminated a bunch of cut-outs together, drilled through them, and slid the roller on the shaft with a couple set screws. If you made a 2 piece roller though, that is really neat. My tires are 700 x38 (+/- 28" x 1 1/4) so it wouldn't need to be wide at all.
 

corgi1

New Member
Aug 13, 2009
2,272
3
0
KCMO
Got it running today,just before dark. Had to cancel the testride cuz It had just rained. It worked real good while in my basement, but when I hit the wet muddy driveway it quit pulling due to the narrow, slick clutch drum contact roller. Def will need the knurled sleeve in the future.

The Preditor engine starts and runs real good. Snappy throttle response, can't wait to load it and see what it does.

I want to try it out some before I commit to building a decent exhaust system

Won't be able to get back to it until Friday.
View attachment 37370
Just a ?,,has anyone tryed a roller w/the groves going around the roller instead of accross it?,,I know that in a standard transmission that the syncronizer rings are groved around the ring and they grip against a smothe steal surface in slick (oil) onditions
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
0
Left coast
Great design Wayne!
You've done an excellent job.

lol
I enjoyed the video, but the subject took off and ran out of view!
lol

Best
rc
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
5
38
louisiana
OK, I finaly got around to mounting a grinding wheel in place of the knurled steel roller. I used a diamond stone dresser and a jig and sidegrinder to dress the 4" wheel down to 3.5" dia to match the steel roller dia.

I had trouble trying to make a stepped threaded shaft for it on my dinky lathe, and the cold rolled steel is way too hard to thread with a die nut, so I devised non lathed threaded stepped shaft.

I simply used a length of 5/8 allthread rod woth the grinding wheel screwed on to the appropiate place and locked with a locknut.

I then slipped sections of 3/4 steel tube from hdw store, leaving enough threads showing on each end for jam nuts. I had previously pressed the pillow bearings to their appropiate places on the tubing, using a large vice and deep sockets,pipe nipples ect. Then assembled everything and tightend the jam nuts on each end of the shaft.

To lock the pullies without a keyway, I drilled into the shaft,(tubing /allthread assy), holes about 3/8" deep, with a bit 1/64 smaller in dia. than the long 5/16 setscrews I used, to give them interference fit. This worked good on the original solid shaft with the steel roller, got almost 600 miles on it with no probs other than the knurls aren't as agressive as they were when new. Slips a lot when wet now.

I haven't tried the stone roller in the wet yet, but it grabs dry, way better than the steel roller with much less pressure against the tire. Less pressure equals less rollong resistance and more speed and efficency.

Barely rolling, with the roller adjusted to 1/4" tire deflection,I can rev the engine and pop the clutch and jerk the bars lightly, and do a 1 foot wheelie!
I think I could jam the roller down to abt 3/8" and prolly pull a full walking wheelie!

I can now use full throttle accelleration in first gear, with no slipping . With the steel roller, I had to feather the 99cc's throttle to keep the engine from racing when accelerating in first gear.
Hey, it might rain here today, might get a chance to try out wet performance.

DSC_1647.JPG

DSC_1541.JPG

IMAG0017.jpg
 
Last edited:

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
Looks like you went up a full inch in roller size, should make for a killer top speed! From my experiments with a 50 grit roller it would positively drive through standing water, you should expect the same Im sure. Next question is tire wear. I imagine the roller should last just about forever. Dont exceed 9010 rpm on the roller!-lol
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
5
38
louisiana
Looks like you went up a full inch in roller size, should make for a killer top speed! From my experiments with a 50 grit roller it would positively drive through standing water, you should expect the same Im sure. Next question is tire wear. I imagine the roller should last just about forever. Dont exceed 9010 rpm on the roller!-lol
No, I just re-edited my post to tell that I resized the stone from 4" to 3.5" to match the steel one. The roller turns abt 1/3 less rpm than the motor, so I think I'm OK there.

The stone should last a long time unless take off the bike wheel and sharpen my mower blades LOL
 
Last edited:

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
5
38
louisiana
Great find! That's the same company I bought my 4" stones from.
I don't you have to worry much about them grenading. They are made to take a lot of abuse on a grinder. I don't think a rubber tire would do much to them. Even if one snapped off, It would just fall away spinning without any serious trajectory force. I have snapped off router bits spinning 22k rpm, and they don't fly around, they just fall on the floor.
 
Last edited:

bowljoman

New Member
Aug 7, 2010
370
1
0
Wa
crazy.. I always wondered what kind of power it took to get a friction drive past the 30's to touch the low 40's. I gave up at 30ish. What kind of MPG will you get cruising low rpms in second?
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
5
38
louisiana
I don't know what the gas milage is at low rpm cruise. I like to cruise about 30mph and 3/4 throttle with a lot of wot takeoffs.
I am averaging 55 miles per tank with 2.5 pints (40 oz.) per fill up to leave a little air space in the tank. This is with the old 3.5" steel roller and 5/16" tire deflection. Prolly get real close to 200mpg if I drove it easy.

The new stone roller can drive at 3/16 tire deflection and equal the same fricton as the steel with 5/16 def., so it's bound to do better on milage.

I think that using a large dia roller adds greatly to the efficency of a fricton drive, way less rolling resistance and much more contact area than the normal small dia roller that has to be used on direct crankshaft speed mounts.
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
5
38
louisiana
Man, this stone roller rocks LOL Very hard for the torquey lil 99cc to make it slip with only 3/16" tire deflection.
No change at all on wet pavement, steep wet gravel roads or even in the muddy diches with standing water!
Amazing! It feels and sounds like a shaft drive, so quiet and smooth.
If I rev it and pop the clutch at dead stop or near zero speed, it will wheelie over!
All my future FD builds will be stoned :~)
 
Last edited:

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
Keep us posted on tire wear Wayne. If Its not too bad I may make the move to one of these or atleast have one on board for wet weather use. I got nearly 1500mi out of the last tire using the rubber, then oak rollers. I wouldnt complain about a 1000mi/tire if the drive was all weather, even though I rarely ride in the wet.
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
5
38
louisiana
Yea, It's got one, enclosed mostly to act as a fender of sorts though. The wheel is rated for 9600 rpm. I'm only turning it about 4200 tops, a bit slower than max engine rpm of about 4800.

These stones are tough. Designed to be used on large sidegrinders, in the hands of ham fisted operators