NEAT TIMES
New Member
Lenny, Congratulations. Having Trouble With New Machine Is A Pain In The But%. But Will Probably Pay Off In The Long Run. Good Luck. Keep Us Posted. This Is A Big Family. Ron
I got a new Whizzer and a bunch of questions
- Thread starter lennyharp
- Start date
lennyharp
Member
Well I got my Whizzer back from the dealer yesterday and I have a feeling I did not get a true story of what thew problem was with the carb and it's irregular behavior. I can go pretty reliably now and it wants to cruise around 30 and will go to about 35. At 20 to 25 it falters some and it almost never stays running at a stop light or idle. Sometimes it still sputters and refuses to gain speed for a 100 or more yards in the 15-20 mph range. I did put about 35 miles on it last night. They said I had messed up the idle screw adjustment and that was all they did. I see that they managed to empty an almost full gas tank to figure that out and had no answer for paint chips in the fuel filter. I think I will learn to do my own repairs as they are a scuzzy bunch but the only place I found in Phoenix selling the Whizzer. I am enjoying that it should get me to work dependably and around town.
Mine has been stalling at stops since I rescued it. It has less than 200 miles even though it is a '98. I am following Quenton's advice and am doing no mods...yet. I am going to adjust the richness/idle after a little more break-in. Have you perused the helpful advice from Quenton?
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Quenton Guenther
Dealer
Hi Weedylot, If the oil vent hose is attached to the breather, you might want to disconnect it before it loads the air breather with oil and causes the motor to run even richer [acts like the choke is slightly on]. As you know your motor will last longer [WC-1] if you keep it running cooler [no mods].
Have fun,
Quenton
Have fun,
Quenton
lennyharp
Member
Thanks, WeedyLot,
I will be looking at all Quenton's stuff as I learn about this bike. He has written a bunch of advice here and on other forums. I can't say I will leave things stock but the motor I may not do too much to. I find that it really wants me to pedal to 20 mph before it will take over the work. This seems a weakness that needs to be addressed. I can think of one remedy and that is to add gears so it is easier to pedal assist. I may build a custom wheel for my whizzer as it's first modification.
I will be looking at all Quenton's stuff as I learn about this bike. He has written a bunch of advice here and on other forums. I can't say I will leave things stock but the motor I may not do too much to. I find that it really wants me to pedal to 20 mph before it will take over the work. This seems a weakness that needs to be addressed. I can think of one remedy and that is to add gears so it is easier to pedal assist. I may build a custom wheel for my whizzer as it's first modification.
lennyharp
Member
Here is a link to the hub I am thinking about...
Sturmey Archer
This is available as a 3, 5 or 8 speed but with a motor I think the 3 is good. I can then assist on long climbs like to Payson or Flagstaff or Mt Lemon down Tucson way. The brake would also improve a little.
Sturmey Archer
This is available as a 3, 5 or 8 speed but with a motor I think the 3 is good. I can then assist on long climbs like to Payson or Flagstaff or Mt Lemon down Tucson way. The brake would also improve a little.
lennyharp
Member
Actually the wheel building is the part I do know but it will not be totally traditional. I am more interested in functional and making it go good. Next year I may decide to build a frame for it because I do not like the cantelever frame. Nostalga does not enter in when you have ridden as many miles as I have. Performance trumps looks every time. The reason to change wheels would be only to help the pedal assist. I may just add a derailluer and a 6 speed cog and spread the frame to match.
Quenton Guenther
Dealer
Hi Lennyharp,
If you upgrade your motor with the NE parts and do a few minor modifications you won't have to worry about using the pedals. The only time I used my pedals was when I ran out of gas a few years ago. You can at least double the power with little effort. I ran a motor this year at Dawson Springs, KY that went 40.3 MPH @8820 RPMs in 150 feet, and was mostly stock including a stock head and camshaft. My biggest problem was keeping the front wheel down, and I didn't use the pedals, in fact my Whizzer didn't have any. If you need me to build you a special cylinder let me know.
Have fun,
Quenton
If you upgrade your motor with the NE parts and do a few minor modifications you won't have to worry about using the pedals. The only time I used my pedals was when I ran out of gas a few years ago. You can at least double the power with little effort. I ran a motor this year at Dawson Springs, KY that went 40.3 MPH @8820 RPMs in 150 feet, and was mostly stock including a stock head and camshaft. My biggest problem was keeping the front wheel down, and I didn't use the pedals, in fact my Whizzer didn't have any. If you need me to build you a special cylinder let me know.
Have fun,
Quenton
Quenton Guenther
Dealer
Hi Lennyharp,
Here is the information I promised you. Some late 2007 and the 2008 models Whizzers have mushroom lifters. Sadly when Whizzer sent the information from my tests and prototype lifters, their vendor added their usual "lack of quality control to the equasion". Although the mushroom lifters solved the major problem of camshaft & lifter mismatch [either eats the camshaft lobes or destroys the lifters], they are poorly made. There are 3 major problems with the new mushroom lifters, 2 can be resolved and the 3rd makes them useless. Some of the lifters were cut undersize [approx. 5%] and can't be fixed, but so far the majority are OK [95%]. All the lifters I purchased from them are way too heavy, and can stress the valve train, and when they ground the base, most were not level. Both problems can be corrected with a drill press or a lathe, using a 3/16" drill. Simply drill out the center deeper [hollow out lifter]and stop approx 1/4" from the bottom of the lifter. Next put lifter in lathe or drill press and make sure the base is level, if not, use a file/sandpaper to level the base [I use a lathe and make sure the base is within .0002"]. Removing the lifters for service/modification is an easy task, but takes about 1 hour to remove, re-install, and adjust. Remove the side cover, pull the camshaft out [if it didn't come out with the side cover], remove the carburetor, remove the compression cover, loosen and remove the lifter adjustment bolts, let lifters drop down [I place a shop towel under them so that they don't drop into the oil in the crancase], re-work them, reverse the process to re-install. It is importand to advance the camshaft one tooth [counter clockwise], and set the lifter clearance to .006" intake, and .008" exhaust. When Whizzer made the extended manifold their vendor added the usual "lack of quality control" and drilled the holes at an odd angle, which means the manifold matches the intake better one way than the other. Simply rotate the manifold and see which way the manifold is closest to matching the intake port. It is important to discuss their choice of intake gaskets because most of the gaskets they use are too wide and creates a large gap [for the air/fuel flow] between the manifold And the cylinder. Order 2 of part number 16229 intake gasket and open the center hole to match the intake port, install the restrictor spacer [after you open the hole to match the intake port], then another 16229 gasket, then the manifold, then the carburetor. I use a thin version of the NE intake gasket between the manifold & carburetor, but isn't needed because the "O" ring in the carburetor mouth will seal against the manifold, I just put it there to make extra sure it never leaks. It is important to use the thin version because the thick gasket will hold the "O" ring away from the manifold and defeat the purpose. Now a few comments about the 22 MM carburetor, most if not the majority are jetted way too rich for most areas, and the earlier versions were sent out way past the workable range. The earlier 22 MM carburetor used a #95 main jet, then later they reduced the size to a #88, but in fact most [98%] need either a #82 or an #85 [and yes I have lots of #82 & #85 jets in stock].
Hope this information is helpful.
Have fun,
Quenton
Here is the information I promised you. Some late 2007 and the 2008 models Whizzers have mushroom lifters. Sadly when Whizzer sent the information from my tests and prototype lifters, their vendor added their usual "lack of quality control to the equasion". Although the mushroom lifters solved the major problem of camshaft & lifter mismatch [either eats the camshaft lobes or destroys the lifters], they are poorly made. There are 3 major problems with the new mushroom lifters, 2 can be resolved and the 3rd makes them useless. Some of the lifters were cut undersize [approx. 5%] and can't be fixed, but so far the majority are OK [95%]. All the lifters I purchased from them are way too heavy, and can stress the valve train, and when they ground the base, most were not level. Both problems can be corrected with a drill press or a lathe, using a 3/16" drill. Simply drill out the center deeper [hollow out lifter]and stop approx 1/4" from the bottom of the lifter. Next put lifter in lathe or drill press and make sure the base is level, if not, use a file/sandpaper to level the base [I use a lathe and make sure the base is within .0002"]. Removing the lifters for service/modification is an easy task, but takes about 1 hour to remove, re-install, and adjust. Remove the side cover, pull the camshaft out [if it didn't come out with the side cover], remove the carburetor, remove the compression cover, loosen and remove the lifter adjustment bolts, let lifters drop down [I place a shop towel under them so that they don't drop into the oil in the crancase], re-work them, reverse the process to re-install. It is importand to advance the camshaft one tooth [counter clockwise], and set the lifter clearance to .006" intake, and .008" exhaust. When Whizzer made the extended manifold their vendor added the usual "lack of quality control" and drilled the holes at an odd angle, which means the manifold matches the intake better one way than the other. Simply rotate the manifold and see which way the manifold is closest to matching the intake port. It is important to discuss their choice of intake gaskets because most of the gaskets they use are too wide and creates a large gap [for the air/fuel flow] between the manifold And the cylinder. Order 2 of part number 16229 intake gasket and open the center hole to match the intake port, install the restrictor spacer [after you open the hole to match the intake port], then another 16229 gasket, then the manifold, then the carburetor. I use a thin version of the NE intake gasket between the manifold & carburetor, but isn't needed because the "O" ring in the carburetor mouth will seal against the manifold, I just put it there to make extra sure it never leaks. It is important to use the thin version because the thick gasket will hold the "O" ring away from the manifold and defeat the purpose. Now a few comments about the 22 MM carburetor, most if not the majority are jetted way too rich for most areas, and the earlier versions were sent out way past the workable range. The earlier 22 MM carburetor used a #95 main jet, then later they reduced the size to a #88, but in fact most [98%] need either a #82 or an #85 [and yes I have lots of #82 & #85 jets in stock].
Hope this information is helpful.
Have fun,
Quenton
Egor
New Member
Lenny, good the hear that your bike is running better you are going to have a good time, when you get the bug's out.
Quinton - I keep hearing about a manifold between the carb and the head. Is it necessary and if I add one will I see a difference in how it runs? On my bike it has a fiber insulator then the restrictor (hogged out) then the carb, in that order. The insulator has an O ring in it also, looks like the one from a Honda CB77. All the motorcycles use the carb as close to the head as it could be. I need a timing light to see what the ignition is on this thing, I think I am going to move it up more, it still seems retarded. Have fun, Dave
Quinton - I keep hearing about a manifold between the carb and the head. Is it necessary and if I add one will I see a difference in how it runs? On my bike it has a fiber insulator then the restrictor (hogged out) then the carb, in that order. The insulator has an O ring in it also, looks like the one from a Honda CB77. All the motorcycles use the carb as close to the head as it could be. I need a timing light to see what the ignition is on this thing, I think I am going to move it up more, it still seems retarded. Have fun, Dave
Quenton Guenther
Dealer
Hi Egor,
My computer is totally acting stupid and wasn't aware of your post.....
The stock carburetor on the NE5 was originally spaced from the head with a series of mis-matched spacers, gaskets, & restrictor plate. The very early NE motors had a 26 MM carburetor and a special cooler/ spacer, however when they converted to the 22 MM they didn't use the large cooler and the heat would boil the gas in the carburetor. The models from 2005 to late 2007 were effected. The late 2007 & the last of production 2008 NE5s had the aluminum extension manifold. The extension moves the power band higher and increases the top RPMs, but subtracts a little of the bottom end torque. The ideal setup is a 1/2" manifold because it keeps the torque curve a little lower, but still adds additional top end. The correct arrangement is; cylinder, gasket [use 16229 with hole cut to match intake port], restrictor plate matched to the port on one side and a slight bevel to blend the mis-matched aluminum manifold on the other, gasket [16229 matched to the aluminum manifold opening], aluminum manifold, thin NE intake gasket [not really needed because the carburetor has an "O" ring to seal against the manifold, but just a safety feature], then the carburetor.
Have fun,
Quenton
My computer is totally acting stupid and wasn't aware of your post.....
The stock carburetor on the NE5 was originally spaced from the head with a series of mis-matched spacers, gaskets, & restrictor plate. The very early NE motors had a 26 MM carburetor and a special cooler/ spacer, however when they converted to the 22 MM they didn't use the large cooler and the heat would boil the gas in the carburetor. The models from 2005 to late 2007 were effected. The late 2007 & the last of production 2008 NE5s had the aluminum extension manifold. The extension moves the power band higher and increases the top RPMs, but subtracts a little of the bottom end torque. The ideal setup is a 1/2" manifold because it keeps the torque curve a little lower, but still adds additional top end. The correct arrangement is; cylinder, gasket [use 16229 with hole cut to match intake port], restrictor plate matched to the port on one side and a slight bevel to blend the mis-matched aluminum manifold on the other, gasket [16229 matched to the aluminum manifold opening], aluminum manifold, thin NE intake gasket [not really needed because the carburetor has an "O" ring to seal against the manifold, but just a safety feature], then the carburetor.
Have fun,
Quenton
Egor
New Member
Thanks I'm still putting miles on the bike, still don't have the leaks fixed but for now don't care. There were a bunch of Harley riders parked the other day, as I rode by they all gave me the thumbs up. Ill never figure them out, If I ride up on a restored Honda C100 I get a thumbs up but if you ride a new Honda, thumbs down. LOL Have fun, Dave
lennyharp
Member
Well I got an 85 and an 82 jet from Quenton and after changing out the stock one for the 85 and opening up the restrictor plate I rode and got a much smoother power band with out the sputtering I was getting from 15-25 mph. I top out about 37-38 mph, which is plenty until I am sure about all the rest of the bike especially brakes. I do like feeling like I can mix it up with traffic now. datz510 was telling me I probably should try the 82 as I get a lot of backfiring when I back off the throttle. So is the hole larger for the bigger number? He said it is running rich still if it is backfiring. I can't believe that I am just learning this stuff at 56, but for years I just wanted to pedal and skip the motor, so I ignored anything about motors. Now I am having a blast figuring out how to make these things go better. I am eager to build another 2 cycle bike with an expansion chamber.
lennyharp
Member
OK so I have done nothing more to my bike yet but to change and add oil. I have an Amsoil 20/50 Motorcycle oil (Chose that one because of the many 115 up to mid 120 degree heat days in our Valley of the Sun.) I am running the #85 Jet and opened up the restricter plate. and now have over 325 miles.
I just rode 80 miles throwing in Usery pass climb then lots of more climbs to see what I could do. The bike usually kept above 30 mph but on some climbs dropped below 25. Close to 20mph I would peddle and pick it back up to 25 where I maxed out my rpm quickly. I do want to get a set of gears cause I like to peddle.
I would also like to do the additional mods Quentin told about so it has a little more power. If I get ti too much faster I will look into making some disk brake wheels up for the bike. Are back up motors available for these beasties?
I had a lot of fun today for my ride and hope to do Tucson soon to visit WeelyLot and FairRacer and others but will have to wait for a weekend off which are rare for me at present. That will be an overnighter as just to Tucson is about 110 or more out thru Florence Junction and doing the Scenic Highway. Sorry I forgot my camera again. This is just some of the prettiest country around.
I just rode 80 miles throwing in Usery pass climb then lots of more climbs to see what I could do. The bike usually kept above 30 mph but on some climbs dropped below 25. Close to 20mph I would peddle and pick it back up to 25 where I maxed out my rpm quickly. I do want to get a set of gears cause I like to peddle.
I would also like to do the additional mods Quentin told about so it has a little more power. If I get ti too much faster I will look into making some disk brake wheels up for the bike. Are back up motors available for these beasties?
I had a lot of fun today for my ride and hope to do Tucson soon to visit WeelyLot and FairRacer and others but will have to wait for a weekend off which are rare for me at present. That will be an overnighter as just to Tucson is about 110 or more out thru Florence Junction and doing the Scenic Highway. Sorry I forgot my camera again. This is just some of the prettiest country around.
Egor
New Member
Kenny - I have no place out here that I can ride to that is nice at all. I ride the river levy that is safest place for me, and it is not pretty. I have family in Utah and that is the nicest place I go. I am trying to think of a nice ride I could go on around here, and I can't think of any place, everywhere I can think of is crowded. You are fortunate to have a good riding location. Have fun, Dave
PS: The next mod is the ignition advance, after that you can leave it alone for a while because it will do 40 easy.
PS: The next mod is the ignition advance, after that you can leave it alone for a while because it will do 40 easy.
lennyharp
Member
I notice I am needing to add oil after a ride like today or about every 80 to 100 miles. That seems like a lot. I tightened up a few nuts and bolts and made sure all looks good for another ride tomorrow and maybe I will take the camera. Tomorrow I hope to go out the Apache trail to Canyon and maybe Apache lakes. If I loose all inhibitions I will just keep on going to Lake Roosevelt and around to Globe and back in thru Superior, making a complete loop of the Superstition mountains. That is why I need a bike that is dependable because I like to ride.
Yes Long Beach is in the middle of a wasteland full of people. Maybe if you make a paddler boat and go west to Catalina, no that is as crowded as anywhere else there. I would get to the desert there when I could as the mountains stop some of the insanity of overcrowding.
I miss the California I was born to, but by the 1970's it was overcrowded. I do have it pretty good at present but I am sure we are about where Los Angeles/Orange Counties were in the 60's. No there is no comparison last time I went there. I love all the coast line but it seems everybody else does too.
Yes Long Beach is in the middle of a wasteland full of people. Maybe if you make a paddler boat and go west to Catalina, no that is as crowded as anywhere else there. I would get to the desert there when I could as the mountains stop some of the insanity of overcrowding.
I miss the California I was born to, but by the 1970's it was overcrowded. I do have it pretty good at present but I am sure we are about where Los Angeles/Orange Counties were in the 60's. No there is no comparison last time I went there. I love all the coast line but it seems everybody else does too.
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